Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference

On Dec 23, 7:17*am, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/23/2010 1:52 AM, DirtRoadie wrote:

On Dec 22, 11:44 pm, T m Sherm n _ ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" *wrote:
On 12/22/2010 2:49 PM, Duane H bert wrote:

Yeah. Up side is that the skis are getting sharpened, even as we speak.
Missing the bike though.

I thought skates were sharpened, and skis were waxed?

Not surprising. Skis have metal edges that can be sharpened.

Downhill skis. *Regular cross country ones don't usually.

Yup. I was trying to keep it simple for Tom.
I'm sure I could confuse him by noting that my skate skis have no
metal edges.
DR

On 12/23/2010 11:04 AM, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Dec 23, 7:17 am, Duane wrote:
On 12/23/2010 1:52 AM, DirtRoadie wrote:

On Dec 22, 11:44 pm, T m Sherm n _""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 12/22/2010 2:49 PM, Duane H bert wrote:

Yeah. Up side is that the skis are getting sharpened, even as we speak.
Missing the bike though.

I thought skates were sharpened, and skis were waxed?

Not surprising. Skis have metal edges that can be sharpened.

Downhill skis. Regular cross country ones don't usually.

Yup. I was trying to keep it simple for Tom.
I'm sure I could confuse him by noting that my skate skis have no
metal edges.
DR

There are some skating type cross country skis that I've seen
that look like they have edges. I was briefly interested because
I'm lousy on cross country skis but my wife prefers it to downhill.

It's funny because the kid is a snow boarder, I'm a down hiller
and the wife's a cross country skier. My son's better on his board
than I am on skis but he gets bored on regular downhill trails.
He likes the snow parks with the rails. We found one hill where there's
a decent trail paralleling the snow park so we can sort of ski together.
But my wife hurt her back going downhill when she was a kid so she
sticks with cross country.

We basically meet once in a while at the apres ski place.

On 12/23/2010 6:29 AM, landotter wrote:

snip

I find the term AHZ to be telling. Zealotry is something that flies in
the face of evidence, not a calm attitude that explains clear
statistics. Zealotry is enthusiasm for a device disproportionate to
its efficacy.

Zealotry in the bike helmet world is really best expressed by what I
call the "concern troll". It's not about cycling, but about being smug.

The problem with zealotry is that it's so often counter-productive
because those able to present a calm and reasoned argument are taken
seriously, while zealots, even if they actually had a factual basis for
their position, are dismissed as lunatics.

The fact that many states have repealed or weakened mandatory helmet
laws for motorcyclists, based on the argument that adults should be able
to choose whether or not to use safety equipment, shows the success of
arguments based on facts and logic.

Those that lack critical thinking skills might be taken in by the
presenter at the TED conference. That type of forum, with no chance for
anyone to present facts or challenge the presenter is perfect for AHZs.
After watching it I'm not sure if the presenter is simply clueless, or
intentionally presenting incorrect data and conclusions.

On 12/23/2010 11:16 AM, SMS wrote:
On 12/23/2010 6:29 AM, landotter wrote:

snip

I find the term AHZ to be telling. Zealotry is something that flies in
the face of evidence, not a calm attitude that explains clear
statistics. Zealotry is enthusiasm for a device disproportionate to
its efficacy.

Zealotry in the bike helmet world is really best expressed by what I
call the "concern troll". It's not about cycling, but about being smug.

The problem with zealotry is that it's so often counter-productive
because those able to present a calm and reasoned argument are taken
seriously, while zealots, even if they actually had a factual basis for
their position, are dismissed as lunatics.

Not sure if I'd say that zealotry being counter-productive is a
problem.

On 12/23/2010 8:19 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:

Not sure if I'd say that zealotry being counter-productive is a
problem.

It is, if you share the goals of the zealots without sharing their
passion for lies and distortions.

It would be safe to say that nearly all of us are opposed to mandatory
helmet laws. Most of us accept the scientific and statistical data that
shows a benefit to helmets in the event of a head-impact crash, but
still do not favor compulsion because we believe that each adult should
be able to choose the level of risk they are willing to accept.

The zealots hurt the cause because those in favor of compulsion point to
them as examples and lump everyone opposed to compulsory helmets
together. It's a tactic that often works in debates. The best thing for
people like Frank to do, if their goal is to prevent more MHLs, is to be
quiet since no one takes them seriously and they hurt the cause whenever
they say anything.

On 12/23/2010 6:16 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:

snip

Skis are waxed on the bottom. Downhill skis have edges
for cutting and are sharpened.

As do back-country XC skis.

On 12/23/2010 11:48 AM, SMS wrote:
On 12/23/2010 8:19 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:

Not sure if I'd say that zealotry being counter-productive is a
problem.

It is, if you share the goals of the zealots without sharing their
passion for lies and distortions.

Maybe but I'm much more concerned when zealots are productive.

In the case of MHLs, most people I think realize the flakes and ignore
them. I haven't really seen cases that you're describing where the rest
of us are lumped together with zealots so maybe I'm wrong.

On 12/23/2010 11:49 AM, SMS wrote:
On 12/23/2010 6:16 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:

snip

Skis are waxed on the bottom. Downhill skis have edges
for cutting and are sharpened.

As do back-country XC skis.

Those are the short ones?

On Dec 23, 10:15*am, Duane Hébert wrote:
On 12/23/2010 11:49 AM, SMS wrote:

On 12/23/2010 6:16 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:

snip

Skis are waxed on the bottom. Downhill skis have edges
for cutting and are sharpened.

As do back-country XC skis.

Those are the short ones?

"Back Country" = "Earn your turns." No lifts, hike to the untracked
powder stashes. Maybe one or two runs (a few thousand vertical feet)
for a day's efforts
In the past often referred to as "Telemark" - free heel.
These days backcountry equipment is virtually the same as Alpine
(downhill) gear and is typically referred to by the term "Alpine
Touring" or simply "AT." Powder width skis, rigid plastic boots, heel
can be freed for walking/climbing but locked down to ski. Some folks
still use a telemark boot/binding setup with a free heel.

DR

On 12/23/2010 12:29 PM, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Dec 23, 10:15 am, Duane wrote:
On 12/23/2010 11:49 AM, SMS wrote:

On 12/23/2010 6:16 AM, Duane Hébert wrote:

snip

Skis are waxed on the bottom. Downhill skis have edges
for cutting and are sharpened.

As do back-country XC skis.

Those are the short ones?

"Back Country" = "Earn your turns." No lifts, hike to the untracked
powder stashes. Maybe one or two runs (a few thousand vertical feet)
for a day's efforts
In the past often referred to as "Telemark" - free heel.
These days backcountry equipment is virtually the same as Alpine
(downhill) gear and is typically referred to by the term "Alpine
Touring" or simply "AT." Powder width skis, rigid plastic boots, heel
can be freed for walking/climbing but locked down to ski. Some folks
still use a telemark boot/binding setup with a free heel.

Ah. I know Telemark. That's the guy taking a hard left in front of me
(usually with one ski straight up) when I come sloshing down the hill g