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Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 16th 13, 04:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?

My old Steve Bauer is in need of a front wheel (hub is shot) and rear wheel (replacement rim likes to go out of true and spoke tension is inconsistent).

The bike is from 1987 and originally came with a six-speed freewheel, SIS, and cone-and-cup bearings. Currently it has a seven-speed freewheel, which the (second?) replacement SIS downtube shifter handles pretty well.

Should I go with a vintage wheelset, with threading for a freewheel, and cone-and-cup bearings? Or should I switch to a newfangled freehub, which I assume is likely to come with sealed (?) or cartridge bearings?

The cost difference is probably not that great, looking at used wheelsets.

I understand that the rear axle length might or will be longer, and the frame would have to be spread a bit. A local bike shop says they have the jig to do this.

The bicycle is typically used for commuting over often poorly-patched pavement. The seven-speed 13-28 freewheel serves me well. I don't see a big need for extra gears. I want to keep a downtube shifter. I would be willing to replace the shifter and its entire stack of shims and washers and whatever, because I am sure that some shims and washers are missing already. I don't know if an 8-speed downtube shifter and all its associated hardware is available at a reasonable price.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks
Ed
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  #2  
Old August 16th 13, 04:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Default Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?

On 8/16/2013 10:19 AM, wrote:
My old Steve Bauer is in need of a front wheel (hub is shot) and rear wheel (replacement rim likes to go out of true and spoke tension is inconsistent).

The bike is from 1987 and originally came with a six-speed freewheel, SIS, and cone-and-cup bearings. Currently it has a seven-speed freewheel, which the (second?) replacement SIS downtube shifter handles pretty well.

Should I go with a vintage wheelset, with threading for a freewheel, and cone-and-cup bearings? Or should I switch to a newfangled freehub, which I assume is likely to come with sealed (?) or cartridge bearings?

The cost difference is probably not that great, looking at used wheelsets.

I understand that the rear axle length might or will be longer, and the frame would have to be spread a bit. A local bike shop says they have the jig to do this.

The bicycle is typically used for commuting over often poorly-patched pavement. The seven-speed 13-28 freewheel serves me well. I don't see a big need for extra gears. I want to keep a downtube shifter. I would be willing to replace the shifter and its entire stack of shims and washers and whatever, because I am sure that some shims and washers are missing already. I don't know if an 8-speed downtube shifter and all its associated hardware is available at a reasonable price.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks
Ed


Changing to a cassette wheel has real advantages in axle
durability and ease of future service but that means your
increment for this change will include a cassette and chain.
Since you didn't mention axle troubles I assume you're a
lighter rider where the differences are smaller.

A new set of freewheel wheels would be the simplest cheapest
solution. Changing to cassette wheels means a minor rear
alignment (neither complex nor expensive) to 130mm.

Cartridge bearing wheels may have some advantage but are not
impervious to salt water. Better than an out of the box
cheap wheel, but probably not a lot better than a properly
lubricated and adjusted loose bearing hub.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #3  
Old August 16th 13, 06:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?

On Friday, August 16, 2013 11:55:54 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

Thanks for the response....

Changing to a cassette wheel has real advantages in axle
durability and ease of future service but that means your
increment for this change will include a cassette and chain.
Since you didn't mention axle troubles I assume you're a
lighter rider where the differences are smaller.


I should mention that I've taken to replacing the chain yearly as preventative maintenance anyway. However, my chainrings definitely need replacement as well, and the freewheel has been in service for a long time and is probably reasonably worn (though doesn't skip with a new chain). I'd probably get a new freewheel anyway if that was the wheel I got.

I had at least one, and possibly two, broken rear axles. My rear dropouts were realigned to be parallel, and I haven't had problems since. The extra strength of the cassette axle does seem like a convincing reason to switch.

.....Ed

  #4  
Old August 16th 13, 09:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?

On Friday, August 16, 2013 1:51:37 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, August 16, 2013 11:55:54 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:



Thanks for the response....



Changing to a cassette wheel has real advantages in axle


durability and ease of future service but that means your


increment for this change will include a cassette and chain.


Since you didn't mention axle troubles I assume you're a


lighter rider where the differences are smaller.




I should mention that I've taken to replacing the chain yearly as preventative maintenance anyway. However, my chainrings definitely need replacement as well, and the freewheel has been in service for a long time and is probably reasonably worn (though doesn't skip with a new chain). I'd probably get a new freewheel anyway if that was the wheel I got.



I had at least one, and possibly two, broken rear axles. My rear dropouts were realigned to be parallel, and I haven't had problems since. The extra strength of the cassette axle does seem like a convincing reason to switch..



....Ed


Hi Ed.

It's also pretty easy to build up a custom cassette with EXACTLY the cogs you want. I built a corncob one last year for fun riding on the gently rolling hills just outside of town east of me. The cone on the right side of the hub is a lot further outboard than the one on a freewheel hub. One other thing. Cassettes are available just about anywhere and it's relatively simple to remove a cassetteto replace a broken drive side spoke compared to getting the average freewheel off.

Cheers
  #5  
Old August 16th 13, 09:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?

On Friday, August 16, 2013 4:11:16 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

It's also pretty easy to build up a custom cassette with EXACTLY the cogs you want. I built a corncob one last year for fun riding on the gently rolling hills just outside of town east of me. The cone on the right side of the hub is a lot further outboard than the one on a freewheel hub. One other thing. Cassettes are available just about anywhere and it's relatively simple to remove a cassetteto replace a broken drive side spoke compared to getting the average freewheel off.


Hmmm....

Would the gear spacing on a cassette be different than on a freewheel? Seven speeds on the back is plenty for me. I get the impression that cassettes are often 8 to 10 speeds, which must mean narrower spacing. Can I get a cassette that replicates my seven speed freewheel?

I did some reading on Sheldon Brown's site, but he never directly dealt with the advantages and issues of this kind of conversion....or if he did, I didn't come across the right page.

.....Ed
  #6  
Old August 16th 13, 10:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?

On Friday, August 16, 2013 4:39:23 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Friday, August 16, 2013 4:11:16 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:



It's also pretty easy to build up a custom cassette with EXACTLY the cogs you want. I built a corncob one last year for fun riding on the gently rolling hills just outside of town east of me. The cone on the right side of the hub is a lot further outboard than the one on a freewheel hub. One other thing. Cassettes are available just about anywhere and it's relatively simple to remove a cassetteto replace a broken drive side spoke compared to getting the average freewheel off.




Hmmm....



Would the gear spacing on a cassette be different than on a freewheel? Seven speeds on the back is plenty for me. I get the impression that cassettes are often 8 to 10 speeds, which must mean narrower spacing. Can I get a cassette that replicates my seven speed freewheel?



I did some reading on Sheldon Brown's site, but he never directly dealt with the advantages and issues of this kind of conversion....or if he did, I didn't come across the right page.



....Ed


I have a seven speed on one of my vintage Mieles that hasn't had the rear triangle cold set wider. With the use of different washers I think nearly any modern hub can be used with a cassette although you *might* have to change the dish slightly. I didn't have to do that either.

IIRC, you can use 7 cogs of an 8 cogs caseette on a vintage hub. I think there are some who make 7 speed cassettes too.

Cheers
  #7  
Old August 16th 13, 10:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Default Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?

On 8/16/2013 3:39 PM, wrote:
On Friday, August 16, 2013 4:11:16 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

It's also pretty easy to build up a custom cassette with EXACTLY the cogs you want. I built a corncob one last year for fun riding on the gently rolling hills just outside of town east of me. The cone on the right side of the hub is a lot further outboard than the one on a freewheel hub. One other thing. Cassettes are available just about anywhere and it's relatively simple to remove a cassetteto replace a broken drive side spoke compared to getting the average freewheel off.


Hmmm....

Would the gear spacing on a cassette be different than on a freewheel? Seven speeds on the back is plenty for me. I get the impression that cassettes are often 8 to 10 speeds, which must mean narrower spacing. Can I get a cassette that replicates my seven speed freewheel?

I did some reading on Sheldon Brown's site, but he never directly dealt with the advantages and issues of this kind of conversion....or if he did, I didn't come across the right page.

....Ed


There were once five and six cassette bodies but no more.
Now there are seven or the current 8-9-10 format which is
predominant for HG. If you use a seven cassette on the newer
8-9-10 wheel, install the supplied spacer first, behind low
gear.

Shimano Seven is very standard and also supported by
SunRace, SRAM and others. The sprocket spacing and tooth
profiles are the same for SIS-7 freewheels and cassettes.

(Suntour was unevenly spaced but they closed twenty years
ago. Eight systems were maddeningly different brand to
brand. Nines and tens are close enough to shift well
although not identical. None of this affects you for a
modern seven system.)

p.s. get a real 7.3mm seven chain. Skinny chain will shift,
but less well, and they cost the same.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #8  
Old August 17th 13, 04:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Default Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?

does your wheel wobble slightly ? take the freewheel axle out n roll it over a flat steel or glass plate. Isit bent ?

bent axles are a PITA for freewheels. If you have the problem maybe a cassette is in order.

self serviced freewheels are prob faster than self serviced cassettes but bent axles are normal...giving excessive tire/bearing wear. loss of driving energy..

Thw bauer is steel correect ? spacing can be done adding washers, one or two at a time. use force.

On the whole I liked my antiquo Raleigh freewheel setup but switching over to all modern is more utilitarian for heavy over the road use age. the original bike used lightly loaded was more light responsive quality musical instrument than the modern setups in the low to mid price ranges. Upgrading to modern gave a better hammer.

I have downtube shifters, the originals but here

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&t...ifters+shimano

The bike's age requires complete inspction/service or parts replacement if not done prior...cables/housings/headset/inside frame inspection n paint.../pedals...is my opinion which may or not be relevant depending on how much the bike is used in the future.
  #9  
Old August 17th 13, 04:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
datakoll
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Default Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?

Google ads are over the BS threshold, a disservice to all ceptin Google

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&t...ntube+shifters

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&t...ntube+shifters


  #10  
Old August 17th 13, 02:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
thirty-six
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Default Replacing wheelset--stick with freewheel or go with cassette?

On Friday, 16 August 2013 18:51:37 UTC+1, wrote:
On Friday, August 16, 2013 11:55:54 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:



Thanks for the response....



Changing to a cassette wheel has real advantages in axle
durability and ease of future service but that means your
increment for this change will include a cassette and chain.
Since you didn't mention axle troubles I assume you're a
lighter rider where the differences are smaller.




I should mention that I've taken to replacing the chain yearly as preventative maintenance anyway.


How often do you change your feet?

However, my chainrings definitely need replacement as well,


and how about your legs?

and the freewheel has been in service for a long time and is probably reasonably worn (though doesn't skip with a new chain).


Hips?

I'd probably get a new freewheel anyway if that was the wheel I got.



I had at least one, and possibly two, broken rear axles.


YOU broke them. Too hard a wheel (too much spoke tension), too small a tyre and not enough tension on the quick release are the usual choices which cause this effect. Habitually eating cereal and milk and lean meat sandwiches will also negatively affect this problem. Dropping spoke tension, tightening axle fully and using a fatter tyre are kinder on bike and rider. Two of these "items" are adjustments which any regular rider should be capable of performing in little time. It may take a couple of months for dietary choices to show beneficial effect.


My rear dropouts were realigned to be parallel, and I haven't had problems since. The extra strength of the cassette axle does seem like a convincing reason to switch.


We-eat-toes have added vitamins and minerals to help you grow strongerer (supposedly than just eating the cardboard).

It's marketing bull. Regular axles are strong enough for most folk when the wheel is appropriately built and operated. I like my freewheel units, they work well, are reliable and are relatively quiet. 5-speed wheels did not break, 6 and 7s needed a little attention to get them to work well.

Leave the grass for the cattle, eat well (fruits, peas,leaves and fats) and don't get scammed. Use your nouse, if the axle is fine just keep it tight, drop some spoke tension and the axle is likely to stay fine with molybdenum disulphide as lubricant.




 




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