|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Titanium bearing races report
I'm making this posting to be archived by Google as a data point and for
future reference. I was doing maintenance on a Dura-Ace WH-7700 wheelset which comes with a titanium cassette freehub body. The freehub body was replaced, and I performed an autopsy on the dead freehub body. The wheel had many miles and wasn't well maintained. The wheel bearings were toasted, and the freehub body bearings were also very worn and were devoid of their chromium. The cone pieces of the freehub body made of hardened steel were severely pitted all the way around on both the inboard and outboard set. I expected to see cups in the titanium freehub body as severely worn as the cone pieces & balls, but this was not the case. The titanium cup races looked absolutely pristine as if there were no wear at all. There wasn't even a visible line showing the track of the balls within the cups. They looked new. This is only a single freehub body, but the implication is that titanium cups & cones or even ball bearings might offer substantial improvement over steel. |
Ads |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Titanium bearing races report
Yikes, I was so impressed with the bearing races that I totally failed
to notice how badly the pawl ratchet surfaces were worn. The wear was very, very heavy. The steel pawls are narrower than the surfaces they engage, and the steel pawls wore a deep groove through the titanium. The height of the ratchet face was reduced by 50% and 6 of the 16 surfaces also had heavy 45 degree beveling at the edge that further reduced the height of the ratchet face. The wear was very even, almost appearing as if it were machined instead of wear. Only the edges had visible ragged wear under high magnification. It appears that while the bearing surfaces appear unworn, the ratchet surfaces are horrible. Perhaps titanium isn't suitable for freehub bodies, but cups & cones still seem like they'd be improved in titanium. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Titanium bearing races report
Kris Tilford wrote:
I was doing maintenance on a Dura-Ace WH-7700 wheelset which comes with a titanium cassette freehub body. The freehub body was replaced, and I performed an autopsy on the dead freehub body. The wheel had many miles and wasn't well maintained. The wheel bearings were toasted, and the freehub body bearings were also very worn and were devoid of their chromium. The cone pieces of the freehub body made of hardened steel were severely pitted all the way around on both the inboard and outboard set. I expected to see cups in the titanium freehub body as severely worn as the cone pieces & balls, but this was not the case. The titanium cup races looked absolutely pristine as if there were no wear at all. There wasn't even a visible line showing the track of the balls within the cups. They looked new. This is only a single freehub body, but the implication is that titanium cups & cones or even ball bearings might offer substantial improvement over steel. It is common to see more wear on cones than cups, even when all parts are steel. ~PB |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Titanium bearing races report
"Kris Tilford" wrote in message ... I'm making this posting to be archived by Google as a data point and for future reference. ..., but the implication is that titanium cups & cones or even ball bearings might offer substantial improvement over steel. Kris: the freehub body on the Shimano Dura-Ace and XTR rear hubs are indeed titanium. However, I know as a fact that the stock balls are not ti. They are stainless steel grade 25 balls. The hub cones are definitely steel. And I'd bet with 100-1 odds that the cups on both sides are forged steel. When hubs wear out the balls and the cones usually wear out much faster than the cups. The cups have much more surface area to take the abuse of contaminants and lack of lubrication. Given that a Shimano hub overhaul takes all of 10 minutes, it takes extraordinary degree of neglect to cause a good hub to lose its cups. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Titanium bearing races report
Kris Tilford wrote:
I'm making this posting to be archived by Google as a data point and for future reference. I was doing maintenance on a Dura-Ace WH-7700 wheelset which comes with a titanium cassette freehub body. The freehub body was replaced, and I performed an autopsy on the dead freehub body. The wheel had many miles and wasn't well maintained. The wheel bearings were toasted, and the freehub body bearings were also very worn and were devoid of their chromium. ball bearing races are not chromed. The cone pieces of the freehub body made of hardened steel were severely pitted all the way around on both the inboard and outboard set. I expected to see cups in the titanium freehub body as severely worn as the cone pieces & balls, but this was not the case. The titanium cup races looked absolutely pristine as if there were no wear at all. the cups are steel, not titanium. it's common to see cups in reasonable condition while cones have spalled - it's a function of the loading geometries between the ball and the race. There wasn't even a visible line showing the track of the balls within the cups. They looked new. This is only a single freehub body, but the implication is that titanium cups & cones or even ball bearings might offer substantial improvement over steel. not at all. titanium can't touch steel for hardness in this kind of application so it is not used for bearings. next time, make sure the bearings are correctly adjusted. the symptoms you describe are typical of the bearings being too tight. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Titanium bearing races report
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:39:39 GMT "Dave Mayer"
wrote: Kris: the freehub body on the Shimano Dura-Ace and XTR rear hubs are indeed titanium. However, I know as a fact that the stock balls are not ti. They are stainless steel grade 25 balls. The hub cones are definitely steel. And I'd bet with 100-1 odds that the cups on both sides are forged steel. I've never seen one of these, but I agree with most of it. Most bearing balls are made from chromium steel, which is often confused with stainless steel. Bearing steels are all magnetic, while titanium is not. A small magnet would easily convince you that your bearing parts are steel, not titanium. Titanium wouldn't make good bearing parts, just as in your other post you discovered that it doesn't make a good ratchet material. - ----------------------------------------------- Jim Adney Madison, WI 53711 USA ----------------------------------------------- |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Titanium bearing races report
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:57:27 -0500, Kris Tilford wrote:
The titanium cup races looked absolutely pristine as if there were no wear at all. There wasn't even a visible line showing the track of the balls within the cups. They looked new. This is only a single freehub body, but the implication is that titanium cups & cones or even ball bearings might offer substantial improvement over steel. It has already been pointed out that the cups were undoubtedly steel, not titanium. This is part of the mythology of titanium, which certainly predates its use in bicycles. The belief is that titanium is stronger than steel and lighter than aluminum, although neither is the case. It is, in fact, lighter than steel and stronger than aluminum, but not as strong as steel nor as light (per volume) as aluminum. -- David L. Johnson __o | Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can _`\(,_ | assure you that mine are all greater. -- A. Einstein (_)/ (_) | |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Titanium bearing races report
Kris Tilford wrote:
Yikes, I was so impressed with the bearing races that I totally failed to notice how badly the pawl ratchet surfaces were worn. The wear was very, very heavy. The steel pawls are narrower than the surfaces they engage, and the steel pawls wore a deep groove through the titanium. The height of the ratchet face was reduced by 50% and 6 of the 16 surfaces also had heavy 45 degree beveling at the edge that further reduced the height of the ratchet face. The wear was very even, almost appearing as if it were machined instead of wear. Only the edges had visible ragged wear under high magnification. It appears that while the bearing surfaces appear unworn, the ratchet surfaces are horrible. Perhaps titanium isn't suitable for freehub bodies, but cups & cones still seem like they'd be improved in titanium. Improved? Over steel?? Hardly. Try filing, drilling, sanding or otherwise working titanium some time. It is not at all suitable as a bearing surface. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Titanium bearing races report
When I looked up informaton on Ti alloys. It can be as strong as some steels
about 180+ psi tensile strength, but its Young's modulus is worst by about 50% compared to steel. Of course the best steels have higher tensile strength than the best Ti alloys. cel "David L. Johnson" wrote in message news On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 00:57:27 -0500, Kris Tilford wrote: The titanium cup races looked absolutely pristine as if there were no wear at all. There wasn't even a visible line showing the track of the balls within the cups. They looked new. This is only a single freehub body, but the implication is that titanium cups & cones or even ball bearings might offer substantial improvement over steel. It has already been pointed out that the cups were undoubtedly steel, not titanium. This is part of the mythology of titanium, which certainly predates its use in bicycles. The belief is that titanium is stronger than steel and lighter than aluminum, although neither is the case. It is, in fact, lighter than steel and stronger than aluminum, but not as strong as steel nor as light (per volume) as aluminum. -- David L. Johnson __o | Do not worry about your difficulties in mathematics, I can _`\(,_ | assure you that mine are all greater. -- A. Einstein (_)/ (_) | |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Titanium bearing races report
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 21:00:14 -0700, cel wrote:
When I looked up informaton on Ti alloys. It can be as strong as some steels about 180+ psi tensile strength, but its Young's modulus is worst by about 50% compared to steel. Of course the best steels have higher tensile strength than the best Ti alloys. And decent bearing cups would be made of high-quality steel. -- David L. Johnson __o | Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how. _`\(,_ | (_)/ (_) | |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
free rotating wheels? | XWonka | Unicycling | 10 | August 13th 06 03:45 AM |
FS: New Titanium MTB and Road parts | Kristan Roberge | Marketplace | 2 | July 11th 04 03:36 AM |
FS: New Titanium Bicycle Parts | Kristan Roberge | Marketplace | 0 | January 18th 04 05:39 PM |
Problem with KH-24, help me???? | zod | Unicycling | 48 | January 10th 04 08:39 AM |
Reports from Sweden | Garry Jones | General | 17 | October 14th 03 05:23 PM |