I would like to discuss 700-C high-pressure tires

On 7/27/2015 6:31 PM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:03:00 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 28/07/15 04:15, wrote:
Tried the Michelin Pro 4s. They weigh about 200 grams and are rated
at 116 lbs. maximum pressure. Cool tire with a great road feel, but
pretty pricey and they tend to blow out suddenly if you hit any rocks
with the sidewall. The tire is trashed if that happens. And since it
is a folding tire, it can jump off the rim pretty easily when
suddenly deflated. I've had two sudden blowouts with the Pro 4s while
riding slowly, but it makes me paranoid that I might have one on a
fast descent.

I'm now using the CST Correre. It is also a slick with a dual tread
compound. It weighs about 100 grams more per tire than the Pro 4, but
only costs half as much and can be inflated to 130 lbs. They seem to
have a more substantial sidewall than the Pro 4s. If my old electric
pump will inflate the CSTs to about 120 PSI, I'm going to check out
their road feel and see if they seem significantly slower than the
Pro 4s.

I would like to have your opinions about your most and least-favorite
high-pressure 700-Cs. Thanks!


I have been using Michelin Pro 4 Service Course tyres on the rear wheel
for a couple of years. I haven't had *any* blow outs. While living
near Melbourne I got about 1-2 punctures a year. Since I moved to
Brisbane it seems like I've had almost 1 per month. Twice recently from
tek screws. A few times from glass shards.

Not long after I started using Pro 4 tyres I got a puncture while riding
over Mt Dandenong, and it was from a side wall slash. The cut was about
8mm long. I sleeved it on the road side with a piece of business card.
The tread was not badly worn, so at home I patched the inside with a
piece of non-stretch fabric, and had no problem with the tyre until the
tread had worn out some months later.

I have to use quite a bit of effort to get the tyres on and off my rims
if I don't use tyre levers, so I would be surprised if they would just
fall off in the event of a blow out.

I use a 25mm Pro 4 on the rear and rarely put more than 90psi in it.
It's quite rideable with only 80 psi in it, though that is dependent on
rider weight. It actually measures 27mm wide once mounted and inflated.

I haven't worn out a front tyre for a long time, and still using a very
old Michelin Krylion tyre - an ancestor of the Pro 4. I may still have
1 or 2 unused in my stock.

I've cycled with fellows who swear by GP4000 tyres and others, but from
my casual observances they are likely to have as many punctures as me,
if not more - however that could be partly because of riding
differences. Most folks are amazed I could ride almost a whole year
between flats in Melbourne.

I found that the GP4000 were more subject to sidewall damage than the
Pros (3/4s). I do like the 4Seasons -- but they are ridiculously
expensive in the U.S. The Gatorskins are good -- and my go-to commuting
tire, but they are too piggy for fast weekend riding, at least the 28mm.

The Michelin Pro tires are a great tire and a good deal when you can get
them on sale, and they are frequently on sale. There may be a better
price/benefit tire, but I don't know what it is.

Any tire that declares itself indestructible will be miserable to ride
on. My worst tire was a mis-sized Michelin 50. I got five flats on one
ride. I thought I was going to have to walk home.


Don't you find the Michelins a bitch to get on and off?



No, and I mount a lot of Michelins.
Vintage Mavic rims and Trek rims with the too-shallow cross
section are just awful, but decent tire brands don't seem to
differ much.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

.. Never understood why people ride ****ty tires just to avoid an occasional flat.
Lou.....

there's X time traveling toward Y....a threshold exists for pain - riding

search into North America's Conti site....belt belt belt

................

% tubular riders ? wanna be racer rubber users ?

On 28/07/2015 8:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/27/2015 6:31 PM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:03:00 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 28/07/15 04:15, wrote:
Tried the Michelin Pro 4s. They weigh about 200 grams and are rated
at 116 lbs. maximum pressure. Cool tire with a great road feel, but
pretty pricey and they tend to blow out suddenly if you hit any rocks
with the sidewall. The tire is trashed if that happens. And since it
is a folding tire, it can jump off the rim pretty easily when
suddenly deflated. I've had two sudden blowouts with the Pro 4s while
riding slowly, but it makes me paranoid that I might have one on a
fast descent.

I'm now using the CST Correre. It is also a slick with a dual tread
compound. It weighs about 100 grams more per tire than the Pro 4, but
only costs half as much and can be inflated to 130 lbs. They seem to
have a more substantial sidewall than the Pro 4s. If my old electric
pump will inflate the CSTs to about 120 PSI, I'm going to check out
their road feel and see if they seem significantly slower than the
Pro 4s.

I would like to have your opinions about your most and least-favorite
high-pressure 700-Cs. Thanks!


I have been using Michelin Pro 4 Service Course tyres on the rear wheel
for a couple of years. I haven't had *any* blow outs. While living
near Melbourne I got about 1-2 punctures a year. Since I moved to
Brisbane it seems like I've had almost 1 per month. Twice recently
from
tek screws. A few times from glass shards.

Not long after I started using Pro 4 tyres I got a puncture while
riding
over Mt Dandenong, and it was from a side wall slash. The cut was
about
8mm long. I sleeved it on the road side with a piece of business card.
The tread was not badly worn, so at home I patched the inside with a
piece of non-stretch fabric, and had no problem with the tyre until the
tread had worn out some months later.

I have to use quite a bit of effort to get the tyres on and off my rims
if I don't use tyre levers, so I would be surprised if they would just
fall off in the event of a blow out.

I use a 25mm Pro 4 on the rear and rarely put more than 90psi in it.
It's quite rideable with only 80 psi in it, though that is dependent on
rider weight. It actually measures 27mm wide once mounted and
inflated.

I haven't worn out a front tyre for a long time, and still using a very
old Michelin Krylion tyre - an ancestor of the Pro 4. I may still have
1 or 2 unused in my stock.

I've cycled with fellows who swear by GP4000 tyres and others, but from
my casual observances they are likely to have as many punctures as me,
if not more - however that could be partly because of riding
differences. Most folks are amazed I could ride almost a whole year
between flats in Melbourne.

I found that the GP4000 were more subject to sidewall damage than the
Pros (3/4s). I do like the 4Seasons -- but they are ridiculously
expensive in the U.S. The Gatorskins are good -- and my go-to commuting
tire, but they are too piggy for fast weekend riding, at least the 28mm.

The Michelin Pro tires are a great tire and a good deal when you can get
them on sale, and they are frequently on sale. There may be a better
price/benefit tire, but I don't know what it is.

Any tire that declares itself indestructible will be miserable to ride
on. My worst tire was a mis-sized Michelin 50. I got five flats on one
ride. I thought I was going to have to walk home.


Don't you find the Michelins a bitch to get on and off?



No, and I mount a lot of Michelins.
Vintage Mavic rims and Trek rims with the too-shallow cross section are
just awful, but decent tire brands don't seem to differ much.


I believe you. That's why I was asking. I've had to help a couple
people with Michelins to get tires off and on and it was usually a
bitch. I figured it was the wire bead or something. The common thread
is that they use the same LBS who recommends these tires. Don't
remember the actual model though.

On 7/28/2015 8:26 AM, Duane wrote:
On 28/07/2015 8:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/27/2015 6:31 PM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:03:00 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 28/07/15 04:15, wrote:
Tried the Michelin Pro 4s. They weigh about 200 grams
and are rated
at 116 lbs. maximum pressure. Cool tire with a great
road feel, but
pretty pricey and they tend to blow out suddenly if
you hit any rocks
with the sidewall. The tire is trashed if that
happens. And since it
is a folding tire, it can jump off the rim pretty
easily when
suddenly deflated. I've had two sudden blowouts with
the Pro 4s while
riding slowly, but it makes me paranoid that I might
have one on a
fast descent.

I'm now using the CST Correre. It is also a slick with
a dual tread
compound. It weighs about 100 grams more per tire than
the Pro 4, but
only costs half as much and can be inflated to 130
lbs. They seem to
have a more substantial sidewall than the Pro 4s. If
my old electric
pump will inflate the CSTs to about 120 PSI, I'm going
to check out
their road feel and see if they seem significantly
slower than the
Pro 4s.

I would like to have your opinions about your most and
least-favorite
high-pressure 700-Cs. Thanks!


I have been using Michelin Pro 4 Service Course tyres
on the rear wheel
for a couple of years. I haven't had *any* blow outs.
While living
near Melbourne I got about 1-2 punctures a year. Since
I moved to
Brisbane it seems like I've had almost 1 per month.
Twice recently
from
tek screws. A few times from glass shards.

Not long after I started using Pro 4 tyres I got a
puncture while
riding
over Mt Dandenong, and it was from a side wall slash.
The cut was
about
8mm long. I sleeved it on the road side with a piece
of business card.
The tread was not badly worn, so at home I patched
the inside with a
piece of non-stretch fabric, and had no problem with
the tyre until the
tread had worn out some months later.

I have to use quite a bit of effort to get the tyres on
and off my rims
if I don't use tyre levers, so I would be surprised if
they would just
fall off in the event of a blow out.

I use a 25mm Pro 4 on the rear and rarely put more than
90psi in it.
It's quite rideable with only 80 psi in it, though that
is dependent on
rider weight. It actually measures 27mm wide once
mounted and
inflated.

I haven't worn out a front tyre for a long time, and
still using a very
old Michelin Krylion tyre - an ancestor of the Pro 4.
I may still have
1 or 2 unused in my stock.

I've cycled with fellows who swear by GP4000 tyres and
others, but from
my casual observances they are likely to have as many
punctures as me,
if not more - however that could be partly because of
riding
differences. Most folks are amazed I could ride almost
a whole year
between flats in Melbourne.

I found that the GP4000 were more subject to sidewall
damage than the
Pros (3/4s). I do like the 4Seasons -- but they are
ridiculously
expensive in the U.S. The Gatorskins are good -- and my
go-to commuting
tire, but they are too piggy for fast weekend riding, at
least the 28mm.

The Michelin Pro tires are a great tire and a good deal
when you can get
them on sale, and they are frequently on sale. There
may be a better
price/benefit tire, but I don't know what it is.

Any tire that declares itself indestructible will be
miserable to ride
on. My worst tire was a mis-sized Michelin 50. I got
five flats on one
ride. I thought I was going to have to walk home.


Don't you find the Michelins a bitch to get on and off?



No, and I mount a lot of Michelins.
Vintage Mavic rims and Trek rims with the too-shallow
cross section are
just awful, but decent tire brands don't seem to differ much.


I believe you. That's why I was asking. I've had to help a
couple people with Michelins to get tires off and on and it
was usually a bitch. I figured it was the wire bead or
something. The common thread is that they use the same LBS
who recommends these tires. Don't remember the actual model
though.

That adds another variable. The wire-bead models, City,
ProTek, Dynamic etc are a very different series from the
Aramid-bead Lithion, Pro, Cross etc. Wire bead models are
usually on cheaper fatter rims which is a different thing
entirely for tire mounting.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 28/07/2015 9:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/28/2015 8:26 AM, Duane wrote:
On 28/07/2015 8:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/27/2015 6:31 PM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:03:00 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 28/07/15 04:15, wrote:
Tried the Michelin Pro 4s. They weigh about 200 grams
and are rated
at 116 lbs. maximum pressure. Cool tire with a great
road feel, but
pretty pricey and they tend to blow out suddenly if
you hit any rocks
with the sidewall. The tire is trashed if that
happens. And since it
is a folding tire, it can jump off the rim pretty
easily when
suddenly deflated. I've had two sudden blowouts with
the Pro 4s while
riding slowly, but it makes me paranoid that I might
have one on a
fast descent.

I'm now using the CST Correre. It is also a slick with
a dual tread
compound. It weighs about 100 grams more per tire than
the Pro 4, but
only costs half as much and can be inflated to 130
lbs. They seem to
have a more substantial sidewall than the Pro 4s. If
my old electric
pump will inflate the CSTs to about 120 PSI, I'm going
to check out
their road feel and see if they seem significantly
slower than the
Pro 4s.

I would like to have your opinions about your most and
least-favorite
high-pressure 700-Cs. Thanks!


I have been using Michelin Pro 4 Service Course tyres
on the rear wheel
for a couple of years. I haven't had *any* blow outs.
While living
near Melbourne I got about 1-2 punctures a year. Since
I moved to
Brisbane it seems like I've had almost 1 per month.
Twice recently
from
tek screws. A few times from glass shards.

Not long after I started using Pro 4 tyres I got a
puncture while
riding
over Mt Dandenong, and it was from a side wall slash.
The cut was
about
8mm long. I sleeved it on the road side with a piece
of business card.
The tread was not badly worn, so at home I patched
the inside with a
piece of non-stretch fabric, and had no problem with
the tyre until the
tread had worn out some months later.

I have to use quite a bit of effort to get the tyres on
and off my rims
if I don't use tyre levers, so I would be surprised if
they would just
fall off in the event of a blow out.

I use a 25mm Pro 4 on the rear and rarely put more than
90psi in it.
It's quite rideable with only 80 psi in it, though that
is dependent on
rider weight. It actually measures 27mm wide once
mounted and
inflated.

I haven't worn out a front tyre for a long time, and
still using a very
old Michelin Krylion tyre - an ancestor of the Pro 4.
I may still have
1 or 2 unused in my stock.

I've cycled with fellows who swear by GP4000 tyres and
others, but from
my casual observances they are likely to have as many
punctures as me,
if not more - however that could be partly because of
riding
differences. Most folks are amazed I could ride almost
a whole year
between flats in Melbourne.

I found that the GP4000 were more subject to sidewall
damage than the
Pros (3/4s). I do like the 4Seasons -- but they are
ridiculously
expensive in the U.S. The Gatorskins are good -- and my
go-to commuting
tire, but they are too piggy for fast weekend riding, at
least the 28mm.

The Michelin Pro tires are a great tire and a good deal
when you can get
them on sale, and they are frequently on sale. There
may be a better
price/benefit tire, but I don't know what it is.

Any tire that declares itself indestructible will be
miserable to ride
on. My worst tire was a mis-sized Michelin 50. I got
five flats on one
ride. I thought I was going to have to walk home.


Don't you find the Michelins a bitch to get on and off?



No, and I mount a lot of Michelins.
Vintage Mavic rims and Trek rims with the too-shallow
cross section are
just awful, but decent tire brands don't seem to differ much.


I believe you. That's why I was asking. I've had to help a
couple people with Michelins to get tires off and on and it
was usually a bitch. I figured it was the wire bead or
something. The common thread is that they use the same LBS
who recommends these tires. Don't remember the actual model
though.

That adds another variable. The wire-bead models, City, ProTek, Dynamic
etc are a very different series from the Aramid-bead Lithion, Pro, Cross
etc. Wire bead models are usually on cheaper fatter rims which is a
different thing entirely for tire mounting.


These were not cheaper fatter rims. Maybe that's the problem. They
were standard 23mm rims. Not the deep dish variety though. I figure if
you want 80mm wheels you can fix your own flats. g

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 8:06:09 AM UTC-7, Phil W Lee wrote:
Lou Holtman considered Tue, 28 Jul 2015
snip

+1. Never understood why people ride ****ty tires just to avoid an occasional flat.

It depends on the reason for the riding.
If you commute a shortish distance on surfaces which make punctures
fairly likely, the reliability is probably worth it.
Then for weekend fun rides, something nice and fast.

I think most people would agree on that. I'm regretting spending so much time commuting on my nice Conti 4 Seasons -- only one flat when I hit a big rock on the trail home a week ago, but more importantly, I'm wearing them out. They're too expensive to be daily drivers. With all the warm weather, I've been riding a racing bike with fenders to work and not my fat tire commuter. Price per mile is much lower on the commuter.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 28/07/2015 11:20 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 8:06:09 AM UTC-7, Phil W Lee wrote:
Lou Holtman considered Tue, 28 Jul 2015
snip

+1. Never understood why people ride ****ty tires just to avoid an occasional flat.

It depends on the reason for the riding.
If you commute a shortish distance on surfaces which make punctures
fairly likely, the reliability is probably worth it.
Then for weekend fun rides, something nice and fast.

I think most people would agree on that. I'm regretting spending so much time commuting on my nice Conti 4 Seasons -- only one flat when I hit a big rock on the trail home a week ago, but more importantly, I'm wearing them out. They're too expensive to be daily drivers. With all the warm weather, I've been riding a racing bike with fenders to work and not my fat tire commuter. Price per mile is much lower on the commuter.



Maybe but don't ignore the opportunity costs of less fun on the commuter.

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 9:48:42 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
On 28/07/2015 9:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/28/2015 8:26 AM, Duane wrote:
On 28/07/2015 8:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 7/27/2015 6:31 PM, Duane wrote:
jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 3:03:00 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 28/07/15 04:15, wrote:
Tried the Michelin Pro 4s. They weigh about 200 grams
and are rated
at 116 lbs. maximum pressure. Cool tire with a great
road feel, but
pretty pricey and they tend to blow out suddenly if
you hit any rocks
with the sidewall. The tire is trashed if that
happens. And since it
is a folding tire, it can jump off the rim pretty
easily when
suddenly deflated. I've had two sudden blowouts with
the Pro 4s while
riding slowly, but it makes me paranoid that I might
have one on a
fast descent.

I'm now using the CST Correre. It is also a slick with
a dual tread
compound. It weighs about 100 grams more per tire than
the Pro 4, but
only costs half as much and can be inflated to 130
lbs. They seem to
have a more substantial sidewall than the Pro 4s. If
my old electric
pump will inflate the CSTs to about 120 PSI, I'm going
to check out
their road feel and see if they seem significantly
slower than the
Pro 4s.

I would like to have your opinions about your most and
least-favorite
high-pressure 700-Cs. Thanks!


I have been using Michelin Pro 4 Service Course tyres
on the rear wheel
for a couple of years. I haven't had *any* blow outs.
While living
near Melbourne I got about 1-2 punctures a year. Since
I moved to
Brisbane it seems like I've had almost 1 per month.
Twice recently
from
tek screws. A few times from glass shards.

Not long after I started using Pro 4 tyres I got a
puncture while
riding
over Mt Dandenong, and it was from a side wall slash.
The cut was
about
8mm long. I sleeved it on the road side with a piece
of business card.
The tread was not badly worn, so at home I patched
the inside with a
piece of non-stretch fabric, and had no problem with
the tyre until the
tread had worn out some months later.

I have to use quite a bit of effort to get the tyres on
and off my rims
if I don't use tyre levers, so I would be surprised if
they would just
fall off in the event of a blow out.

I use a 25mm Pro 4 on the rear and rarely put more than
90psi in it.
It's quite rideable with only 80 psi in it, though that
is dependent on
rider weight. It actually measures 27mm wide once
mounted and
inflated.

I haven't worn out a front tyre for a long time, and
still using a very
old Michelin Krylion tyre - an ancestor of the Pro 4.
I may still have
1 or 2 unused in my stock.

I've cycled with fellows who swear by GP4000 tyres and
others, but from
my casual observances they are likely to have as many
punctures as me,
if not more - however that could be partly because of
riding
differences. Most folks are amazed I could ride almost
a whole year
between flats in Melbourne.

I found that the GP4000 were more subject to sidewall
damage than the
Pros (3/4s). I do like the 4Seasons -- but they are
ridiculously
expensive in the U.S. The Gatorskins are good -- and my
go-to commuting
tire, but they are too piggy for fast weekend riding, at
least the 28mm.

The Michelin Pro tires are a great tire and a good deal
when you can get
them on sale, and they are frequently on sale. There
may be a better
price/benefit tire, but I don't know what it is.

Any tire that declares itself indestructible will be
miserable to ride
on. My worst tire was a mis-sized Michelin 50. I got
five flats on one
ride. I thought I was going to have to walk home.


Don't you find the Michelins a bitch to get on and off?



No, and I mount a lot of Michelins.
Vintage Mavic rims and Trek rims with the too-shallow
cross section are
just awful, but decent tire brands don't seem to differ much.


I believe you. That's why I was asking. I've had to help a
couple people with Michelins to get tires off and on and it
was usually a bitch. I figured it was the wire bead or
something. The common thread is that they use the same LBS
who recommends these tires. Don't remember the actual model
though.

That adds another variable. The wire-bead models, City, ProTek, Dynamic
etc are a very different series from the Aramid-bead Lithion, Pro, Cross
etc. Wire bead models are usually on cheaper fatter rims which is a
different thing entirely for tire mounting.


These were not cheaper fatter rims. Maybe that's the problem. They
were standard 23mm rims. Not the deep dish variety though. I figure if
you want 80mm wheels you can fix your own flats. g

.....

RIGHT WHAT YOU DO IS PLACE THE LEVER........

GooImages has pages of

MONKEY CHANGING BICYCLE TIRE

https://www.google.com/search?site=i...57.tZmqpJlg8Bw

I don't care about that, Gene. George of the Jungle has already conclusively established that you need steel tracks:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/pkczs4aef5...0joke.mp3?dl=0

Therefore I really wish you would stop raising this issue so often and so improvidently!