Cycling in Toronto

On 2/24/2017 5:01 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 1:19:34 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/24/2017 2:05 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 05:28:47 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...s-numbers.html

Here in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis-St. Paul) there has been a trend in
the past few years to take four lane through streets and convert them
into two lanes with bike lanes and sometimes a center median. The
stated intent has been to facilitate bike use and to make the streets
pedestrian safer by installing the median. No data has been released
yet and I am not sure there are even any studies being done.

IMHO the results are awful, but of course I am looking at this from the
perspective of someone who has cycled city and suburban streets for 50+
years so I feel no need whatsoever for bike lanes. The streets are now
clogged with 1/4 to 1/2 mile-long backups to the major intersections.
The bike lanes are corridors of exhaust fumes and danger from drivers
trying to pull ahead early to get into a turn lane (which overlaps the
bike lanes, of course) and parked cars with the bike lane in the door
zone. Our local bike advocacy groups consider this a great victory.
But another consequence is drivers filtering through the neighborhoods
adjacent to these mangled through-routes, trying to get around the
congestion to get where they are trying to go. On my street, rush hour
traffic is probably five times higher than it used to be.

Apparently bike progress means making roads equally unusable for
everyone.

We've got very little of that stuff happening - one of the blessings of
being in a non-trendy area.

But as a guy who frequently walks across a busy 60+ foot wide five lane
road, I think I'd like the center refuge islands for pedestrians.

You're the guy playing frogger in real life that the truckers complain aboot?

Yeah, we're the unreasonable ones who actually think we should be able
to cross the street on foot. It's crazy, I know!

Years ago, one community group proposed asking the state DOT if it would
be feasible to add center islands to this super-wide five lane road.
(It's one of five entrances into our otherwise very walkable suburban
village. Every other entrance is quite pretty and calm. This entrance
road looks like a damned freeway.)

The local reactionaries marched to every business on the road in
question and told them they would go bankrupt. They claimed that the
fire engines would no longer be able to get to fires. They promised
mile-long traffic backups. All from putting green islands in the
portion of the road that nobody ever used.

Village council caved in to the torches and pitchforks crowd and agreed
not to ask the DOT if it was a good idea. IOW, they voted for ignorance.

We still cross that road, but I'm aware that someday I'll be too old to
do so. Yes, it's possible to walk something like a quarter mile down to
the big traffic light and wait several minutes for a "WALK" signal, then
walk back on the other side. But by the time I can't sprint directly
across, I'll probably be too frail to walk the extra half mile.

You'll note I feel different about pedestrian facilities than about bike
facilities.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 4:19:04 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/24/2017 5:01 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 1:19:34 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 2/24/2017 2:05 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 05:28:47 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...s-numbers.html

Here in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis-St. Paul) there has been a trend in
the past few years to take four lane through streets and convert them
into two lanes with bike lanes and sometimes a center median. The
stated intent has been to facilitate bike use and to make the streets
pedestrian safer by installing the median. No data has been released
yet and I am not sure there are even any studies being done.

IMHO the results are awful, but of course I am looking at this from the
perspective of someone who has cycled city and suburban streets for 50+
years so I feel no need whatsoever for bike lanes. The streets are now
clogged with 1/4 to 1/2 mile-long backups to the major intersections.
The bike lanes are corridors of exhaust fumes and danger from drivers
trying to pull ahead early to get into a turn lane (which overlaps the
bike lanes, of course) and parked cars with the bike lane in the door
zone. Our local bike advocacy groups consider this a great victory.
But another consequence is drivers filtering through the neighborhoods
adjacent to these mangled through-routes, trying to get around the
congestion to get where they are trying to go. On my street, rush hour
traffic is probably five times higher than it used to be.

Apparently bike progress means making roads equally unusable for
everyone.

We've got very little of that stuff happening - one of the blessings of
being in a non-trendy area.

But as a guy who frequently walks across a busy 60+ foot wide five lane
road, I think I'd like the center refuge islands for pedestrians.

You're the guy playing frogger in real life that the truckers complain aboot?

Yeah, we're the unreasonable ones who actually think we should be able
to cross the street on foot. It's crazy, I know!

Years ago, one community group proposed asking the state DOT if it would
be feasible to add center islands to this super-wide five lane road.
(It's one of five entrances into our otherwise very walkable suburban
village. Every other entrance is quite pretty and calm. This entrance
road looks like a damned freeway.)

The local reactionaries marched to every business on the road in
question and told them they would go bankrupt. They claimed that the
fire engines would no longer be able to get to fires. They promised
mile-long traffic backups. All from putting green islands in the
portion of the road that nobody ever used.

Village council caved in to the torches and pitchforks crowd and agreed
not to ask the DOT if it was a good idea. IOW, they voted for ignorance.

We still cross that road, but I'm aware that someday I'll be too old to
do so. Yes, it's possible to walk something like a quarter mile down to
the big traffic light and wait several minutes for a "WALK" signal, then
walk back on the other side. But by the time I can't sprint directly
across, I'll probably be too frail to walk the extra half mile.

You'll note I feel different about pedestrian facilities than about bike
facilities.

Noted

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 4:10:27 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 5:28:49 AM UTC-8, wrote:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...s-numbers.html
--
Andrew Chaplin

I rode Toronto one day. Then out of town for the Erie Canal the next day.. Funny thing is noone in Toronto knows how far it is to Hamilton, or St. Catharines. AFAICT. In fact in Burlington they don't know how far it is to Hamilton. (It is across the city limit). They just looked the bike and scowled and said "Far".

I enjoyed riding around town tho. The canal was too much stopping.

The funny thing was riding out of downtown buffalo. To the N-NE. For a quik late afternoon loop. I had never felt like prey before that. For a moment I thought I was a gazelle on National Geographic or something.

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 1:28:49 PM UTC, wrote:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...s-numbers.html
--
Andrew Chaplin

I don't have too much time for traffic consultants. It's a trade in which it helps to be blind in both eyes, deaf in at least one ear, and stupid besides:
http://coolmainpress.com/ajwriting/c...expert-report/

Andre Jute
I got on my bike and tried it

On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 16:19:29 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/24/2017 2:05 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 24 Feb 2017 05:28:47 -0800 (PST),
wrote:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...s-numbers.html

Here in the Twin Cities (Minneapolis-St. Paul) there has been a trend in
the past few years to take four lane through streets and convert them
into two lanes with bike lanes and sometimes a center median. The
stated intent has been to facilitate bike use and to make the streets
pedestrian safer by installing the median. No data has been released
yet and I am not sure there are even any studies being done.

IMHO the results are awful, but of course I am looking at this from the
perspective of someone who has cycled city and suburban streets for 50+
years so I feel no need whatsoever for bike lanes. The streets are now
clogged with 1/4 to 1/2 mile-long backups to the major intersections.
The bike lanes are corridors of exhaust fumes and danger from drivers
trying to pull ahead early to get into a turn lane (which overlaps the
bike lanes, of course) and parked cars with the bike lane in the door
zone. Our local bike advocacy groups consider this a great victory.
But another consequence is drivers filtering through the neighborhoods
adjacent to these mangled through-routes, trying to get around the
congestion to get where they are trying to go. On my street, rush hour
traffic is probably five times higher than it used to be.

Apparently bike progress means making roads equally unusable for
everyone.

We've got very little of that stuff happening - one of the blessings of
being in a non-trendy area.

But as a guy who frequently walks across a busy 60+ foot wide five lane
road, I think I'd like the center refuge islands for pedestrians.

Over here the trend is to remove the cross walks and build pedestrian
bridges over the road. Having to carry your bike up two flights of
stairs, across a 6 - 8 lane bridge and back down several flights of
steps certainly proves the superiority of carbon fiber bicycles :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

I remember Toronto .... we went thru Xxxxxtown where draft resistors lived then off to Mosport...las I see from across a bacant lt size of riad iskand is a downtown with 3 buildings .... now looks like Newark !

Gas oil timber gas oil timber .... advanced civilization.

how control the spell checkers goo Nazi mods ? The Dam thing has A1.

Doug Landau wrote in
:

On Friday, February 24, 2017 at 5:28:49 AM UTC-8,
wrote:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...-bloor-st-have
-i
ncreased-driving-time-and-boosted-cyclists-numbers.html
--
Andrew Chaplin

I rode Toronto one day. Then out of town for the Erie Canal the next
day. Funny thing is noone in Toronto knows how far it is to Hamilton,
or St. Catharines. AFAICT. In fact in Burlington they don't know how
far it is to Hamilton. (It is across the city limit). They just
looked the bike and scowled and said "Far".

I enjoyed riding around town tho. The canal was too much stopping.

I gather you mean the Welland Canal. The Erie is in New York.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

Landau is faster than a speeding bullet...

On 2/25/17 2:24 AM, John B. wrote:
Over here the trend is to remove the cross walks and build pedestrian
bridges over the road. Having to carry your bike up two flights of
stairs, across a 6 - 8 lane bridge and back down several flights of
steps certainly proves the superiority of carbon fiber bicycles :-)

Couple of places in Toronto where I had to carry the bike up stairs of
at least three stories to the six-lane road and back down again to cross
the river. (And halfway on one of them, a cop yelled at me for not
being on the bike paths down below!)

--
Wes Groleau