Jan Heine on wheel building

On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 09:52:52 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:
On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 7:51:48 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
https://janheine.wordpress.com

Today's blog post is about building strong wheels.

That guy is just such a doof it's impossible to take him seriously
even when what he's saying is not incorrect.

Jan's first language is German, which influences how he writes. He's
prone to sounding dogmatic even when he's accommodating other
viewpoints. He seems genuinely interested in being correct in his
information, although he has tended to iterate his way there. Like
Grant Petersen and Jobst, he seems to have a somewhat outsized influence
given his niche market share. Like those two, his passion for and
belief in what he's doing seem to make a difference. But he's nowhere
near as "encycleopedic" as Jobst or Sheldon Brown, and he's a lot more
specifically focused than Grant.

His magazine is beautifully produced and his tires have been very
favorably viewed by all the people I know who have used them. I can't
bring myself to spend $70 on a bike tire. I did use his braze-ons and
straddle wire hangers for Mafac centerpulls when I had a custom bike
built; very well made products. His Rene Herse cranks look beautiful,
too. His history of Rene Herse is quite the tome.

Apparently he's also got a doctorate in geology. And more to the point,
perhaps, is that he has been able to turn his passion into making a
living. Many of us never do that. On the flip side I do find his
writing style often irritating and I could go a long while without
reading the word "optimized" as it relates to bike designs. He does
finally seem to be moving a bit past 1950s French constructeur bikes as
the ultimate pinnacle of bicycle design. That's good.

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:49:50 +0700, John B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

https://janheine.wordpress.com

Today's blog post is about building strong wheels.

He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become
unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more
highly loaded (tighter) :-) -- Cheers,

groan And here we go again... ;-)

On 3/14/2017 8:49 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

https://janheine.wordpress.com

Today's blog post is about building strong wheels.

He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become
unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more
highly loaded (tighter) :-)

Read _The Bicycle Wheel_ by Jobst Brandt.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 15/03/17 01:49, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

https://janheine.wordpress.com

Today's blog post is about building strong wheels.

He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become
unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more
highly loaded (tighter) :-)

Burn him!

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 9:16:58 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:49:50 +0700, John B wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

https://janheine.wordpress.com

Today's blog post is about building strong wheels.

He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become
unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more
highly loaded (tighter) :-) -- Cheers,

groan And here we go again... ;-)

The conversation always reminds me of The Boonie Book.
https://www.amazon.com/Boonie-Book-R.../dp/0912656174

We had a copy when I was a kid and I read it over and over and practiced the tricks and maintained my hodaka as instructed. The author, Carl Shipman, who also wrote a series of books about cameras (How to use Canon SLR Cameras, How to use Nikon SLR Cameras, ...) had a very paternalistic writing style and sounded very knowledgeable. He went into discussions of stuff like rake and trail which were very interesting.
He also claimed, in his typical paternalistic and reassuring way, that tying and soldering spokes makes a stronger wheel. He also explained, accompanied by a series of drawings, that while a wooden-spoke wagon wheel stands on the bottom spoke, a tangenitally-laced wire-spoke wheel hangs from the top two.

r
... He seems genuinely interested in being correct in his
information, although he has tended to iterate his way there.

LOL Thank you I did in fact laugh out loud at this

On 3/14/2017 6:05 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 5:49:54 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

https://janheine.wordpress.com

Today's blog post is about building strong wheels.

He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become
unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more
highly loaded (tighter) :-)

Are you -sure- you want to say that on this group?


Pop yerselves a bowl of popcorn, sit back and watch the show.

Mark J.

On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 10:11:01 PM UTC-5, Ralph Barone wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

https://janheine.wordpress.com

Today's blog post is about building strong wheels.

He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become
unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more
highly loaded (tighter) :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

It's a bit asymmetrical. If the rim was very "floppy", then only one spoke
at a time on the bottom would be detensioned, but a large number of upper
spokes would share the increase. As the rim gets stiffer and stiffer, then
the detensioning of the lower spokes gets more uniform and smaller. In the
ultimate case of a perfectly stiff rim, then the loss of tension in the
lower spikes would be perfectly and symmetrically compensated by an
increase in tension of the upper spokes. So you can leave less upward
margin in your spoke tension than you have to leave on the downward side.

With a large diameter rim and large hub width, the non-drive side can become detention. While the one spoke doesn't have tension on it, it tends to flex the spoke eventually leading to failure. Sheldon Brown suggests the non-drive side be radial so it can't be unloaded.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html#half-radial

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 10:19:01 -0700 (PDT), Doug Landau
wrote:
On Tuesday, March 14, 2017 at 9:16:58 PM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 07:49:50 +0700, John B
wrote:
On Tue, 14 Mar 2017 10:51:45 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

https://janheine.wordpress.com

Today's blog post is about building strong wheels.

He seems to ignore the upper spokes. If the bottom spokes become
unloaded ( looser) then, logically, the top spokes must become more
highly loaded (tighter) :-) -- Cheers,

groan And here we go again... ;-)

The conversation always reminds me of The Boonie Book.
https://www.amazon.com/Boonie-Book-R.../dp/0912656174

We had a copy when I was a kid and I read it over and over and
practiced the tricks and maintained my hodaka as instructed. The
author, Carl Shipman, who also wrote a series of books about cameras
(How to use Canon SLR Cameras, How to use Nikon SLR Cameras, ...) had
a very paternalistic writing style and sounded very knowledgeable. He
went into discussions of stuff like rake and trail which were very
interesting. He also claimed, in his typical paternalistic and
reassuring way, that tying and soldering spokes makes a stronger
wheel. He also explained, accompanied by a series of drawings, that
while a wooden-spoke wagon wheel stands on the bottom spoke, a
tangenitally-laced wire-spoke wheel hangs from the top two.

With a perfectly rigid rim, that would be closer to correct although not
entirely. In a wheel in which the spokes have no tension, it would be
even closer to being correct. Unusable, but closer to being correct.

On Wed, 15 Mar 2017 15:57:52 -0700, Mark J.
wrote:

Pop yerselves a bowl of popcorn, sit back and watch the show.

Would have been a much better show a few years back...