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#21
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Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters
On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 8:23:04 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Snipped It looks as if Louis Deschênes was on his way to work at Place de Portage and would have been eastbound from Aylmer. It is, therefore, a bit of a puzzler, as the approach to that curve is not that challenging. I think this is the location of the incident: . Especially if he was on his commute. You would assume he was familiar with the route. I still think it might have been him trying to avoid hitting someone or something like a dog on the path. In Toronto Canada I used to commute via the parks paths in a number of parks that connected to each other. I was very familiar with the routes but sometimes I'd have to brake hard or take evasive action to avoid hitting an early morning jogger or dog walker. There sure are a lot of unanswered questions to this incident in Ottawa though. Cheers |
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#22
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Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters
On 28/04/2017 10:44 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 8:23:04 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote: Snipped It looks as if Louis Deschênes was on his way to work at Place de Portage and would have been eastbound from Aylmer. It is, therefore, a bit of a puzzler, as the approach to that curve is not that challenging. I think this is the location of the incident: . Especially if he was on his commute. You would assume he was familiar with the route. I still think it might have been him trying to avoid hitting someone or something like a dog on the path. In Toronto Canada I used to commute via the parks paths in a number of parks that connected to each other. I was very familiar with the routes but sometimes I'd have to brake hard or take evasive action to avoid hitting an early morning jogger or dog walker. There sure are a lot of unanswered questions to this incident in Ottawa though. Cheers I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90 I had to brake for an alligator. Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out. |
#23
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Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters
On 4/28/2017 9:56 AM, Duane wrote:
On 28/04/2017 10:44 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 8:23:04 AM UTC-4, Duane wrote: Snipped It looks as if Louis Deschênes was on his way to work at Place de Portage and would have been eastbound from Aylmer. It is, therefore, a bit of a puzzler, as the approach to that curve is not that challenging. I think this is the location of the incident: . Especially if he was on his commute. You would assume he was familiar with the route. I still think it might have been him trying to avoid hitting someone or something like a dog on the path. In Toronto Canada I used to commute via the parks paths in a number of parks that connected to each other. I was very familiar with the routes but sometimes I'd have to brake hard or take evasive action to avoid hitting an early morning jogger or dog walker. There sure are a lot of unanswered questions to this incident in Ottawa though. Cheers I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90 I had to brake for an alligator. Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out. John Dacey linked photos of alligators spotted while cycling here years ago. Scary! -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#24
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Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters
On 4/28/2017 10:56 AM, Duane wrote:
I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90 I had to brake for an alligator. We've cycled right past basking alligators in Okefenokee park in Georgia. Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out. A cycling friend of mine suffered a sort of minor blackout during an easy flat ride. He said he felt strange, then his vision suddenly went black. He was able to stop his bike, stand over it for a while, then resume riding feeling fine. Within a month or two, he had a cardiac defibrillator implanted in his chest. I wonder how many catastrophic medical events either trigger or are mislabeled as bicycle fatalities. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#25
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Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters
On 2017-04-28 09:34, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/28/2017 10:56 AM, Duane wrote: I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90 I had to brake for an alligator. We've cycled right past basking alligators in Okefenokee park in Georgia. Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out. A cycling friend of mine suffered a sort of minor blackout during an easy flat ride. He said he felt strange, then his vision suddenly went black. He was able to stop his bike, stand over it for a while, then resume riding feeling fine. Within a month or two, he had a cardiac defibrillator implanted in his chest. I wonder how many catastrophic medical events either trigger or are mislabeled as bicycle fatalities. Bicycle accidents are notoriously poorly reported. Just a few sentences, a photo and typically zero follow-up. They probably just aren't perceived as too important. Different with car accidents. There a lot of effort is expended to find out what the primary cause was. The son of a neighbor is seriously walking-disabled ever since his truck was hit head-on by a big sedan which had veered onto the wrong side of the highway. Turned out the driver had a cardiac event. He died at the scene or most likely upon impact. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#26
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Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters
On 4/28/2017 1:44 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-04-28 09:34, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/28/2017 10:56 AM, Duane wrote: I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90 I had to brake for an alligator. We've cycled right past basking alligators in Okefenokee park in Georgia. Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out. A cycling friend of mine suffered a sort of minor blackout during an easy flat ride. He said he felt strange, then his vision suddenly went black. He was able to stop his bike, stand over it for a while, then resume riding feeling fine. Within a month or two, he had a cardiac defibrillator implanted in his chest. I wonder how many catastrophic medical events either trigger or are mislabeled as bicycle fatalities. Bicycle accidents are notoriously poorly reported. Just a few sentences, a photo and typically zero follow-up. They probably just aren't perceived as too important. I haven't seen evidence that bicycling fatalities are notoriously poorly reported. I've seen news articles talking about bicyclists being killed even though the bicyclists was walking his bike at the time, so was actually a pedestrian when hit. Overall, I believe the importance attached to bike crashes is a bit excessive. At least one study counted every tiny scratch as an injury worth reporting, and any tiny scratch that a nurse looked at as a "serious injury." That's excessive. And of course, the average American still thinks of bicycling as being a major source of serious brain injury and fatalities, even though bicycling generates only 0.6% of America's TBI fatalities. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#27
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Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters
On Fri, 28 Apr 2017 16:00:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 4/28/2017 1:44 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-04-28 09:34, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/28/2017 10:56 AM, Duane wrote: I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90 I had to brake for an alligator. We've cycled right past basking alligators in Okefenokee park in Georgia. Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out. A cycling friend of mine suffered a sort of minor blackout during an easy flat ride. He said he felt strange, then his vision suddenly went black. He was able to stop his bike, stand over it for a while, then resume riding feeling fine. Within a month or two, he had a cardiac defibrillator implanted in his chest. I wonder how many catastrophic medical events either trigger or are mislabeled as bicycle fatalities. Bicycle accidents are notoriously poorly reported. Just a few sentences, a photo and typically zero follow-up. They probably just aren't perceived as too important. I haven't seen evidence that bicycling fatalities are notoriously poorly reported. I've seen news articles talking about bicyclists being killed even though the bicyclists was walking his bike at the time, so was actually a pedestrian when hit. Overall, I believe the importance attached to bike crashes is a bit excessive. At least one study counted every tiny scratch as an injury worth reporting, and any tiny scratch that a nurse looked at as a "serious injury." That's excessive. And of course, the average American still thinks of bicycling as being a major source of serious brain injury and fatalities, even though bicycling generates only 0.6% of America's TBI fatalities. A few studies have been made of bicycle - auto collisions. The CHP did a study in L.A. county a few years ago and determined that more then half of the collisions, where cause could be determined, was the cyclists fault. The primary cause was the cyclist not complying with traffic regulations. There have also been a number done in other States that seem to agree with the CHP study. I've always wondered why the "Danger! Danger!" group never mentions "Obey the Law! Obey the Law!" |
#28
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Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters
On 2017-04-28 13:00, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/28/2017 1:44 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-04-28 09:34, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/28/2017 10:56 AM, Duane wrote: I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90 I had to brake for an alligator. We've cycled right past basking alligators in Okefenokee park in Georgia. Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out. A cycling friend of mine suffered a sort of minor blackout during an easy flat ride. He said he felt strange, then his vision suddenly went black. He was able to stop his bike, stand over it for a while, then resume riding feeling fine. Within a month or two, he had a cardiac defibrillator implanted in his chest. I wonder how many catastrophic medical events either trigger or are mislabeled as bicycle fatalities. Bicycle accidents are notoriously poorly reported. Just a few sentences, a photo and typically zero follow-up. They probably just aren't perceived as too important. I haven't seen evidence that bicycling fatalities are notoriously poorly reported. You might live in a different universe. Even a killed local cyclist is barely worth the space of about half a postcard size in the newspaper and there is hardly any useful detail in the story. "A cyclist westbound on XYZ Avenue was struck by a westbound [insert brand of car here] and died at the scene". That about it in terms of details. A local car accident with fatal outcome commands a lot more detail in reporting in the paper. ... I've seen news articles talking about bicyclists being killed even though the bicyclists was walking his bike at the time, so was actually a pedestrian when hit. See? That is one of the many things I mean with poor reporting. Overall, I believe the importance attached to bike crashes is a bit excessive. At least one study counted every tiny scratch as an injury worth reporting, and any tiny scratch that a nurse looked at as a "serious injury." That's excessive. Nonsense. Serious studies don't that. And of course, the average American still thinks of bicycling as being a major source of serious brain injury and fatalities, even though bicycling generates only 0.6% of America's TBI fatalities. A brief lesson in statistics. The answer is in documents such as this: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/docs/case15.pdf Quote "U.S. bicycle miles traveled range between 5.8 and 21.3 billion per year" and a few lines down, quote "For comparison, U.S. passenger vehicles traveled an estimated 2,061 billion miles in 1991" Those numbers are about 25 years old but you have often said yourself that the US mode share for cycling didn't improve much. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#29
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Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters
On 4/29/2017 10:47 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-04-28 13:00, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/28/2017 1:44 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-04-28 09:34, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/28/2017 10:56 AM, Duane wrote: I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90 I had to brake for an alligator. We've cycled right past basking alligators in Okefenokee park in Georgia. Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out. A cycling friend of mine suffered a sort of minor blackout during an easy flat ride. He said he felt strange, then his vision suddenly went black. He was able to stop his bike, stand over it for a while, then resume riding feeling fine. Within a month or two, he had a cardiac defibrillator implanted in his chest. I wonder how many catastrophic medical events either trigger or are mislabeled as bicycle fatalities. Bicycle accidents are notoriously poorly reported. Just a few sentences, a photo and typically zero follow-up. They probably just aren't perceived as too important. I haven't seen evidence that bicycling fatalities are notoriously poorly reported. You might live in a different universe. Even a killed local cyclist is barely worth the space of about half a postcard size in the newspaper and there is hardly any useful detail in the story. "A cyclist westbound on XYZ Avenue was struck by a westbound [insert brand of car here] and died at the scene". That about it in terms of details. A local car accident with fatal outcome commands a lot more detail in reporting in the paper. That's not what I've seen here - although I admit your universe seems very different from most in many ways! In our local news, all traffic fatalities seem to get about the same level of publicity. It's true that the level is usually minimal, typically about 15 seconds of TV news time and about two or three column inches in the newspaper, unless there is something unusual or sensational about the event. Here's an example, from the most prominent news organization: "State troopers say drug use is suspected in a crash that claimed the life of a Toledo area man along the Ohio Turnpike in Jackson Township. The Ohio State Highway Patrol says Edwin Clayton, 69, of Holland, Ohio was killed Monday when his pickup truck went off the eastbound lanes of the turnpike, striking an embankment and a tree. One lane of the tollway was shut down at around 2 p.m. while authorities investigated the crash." That's it. Less than 30 seconds on the news. ... I've seen news articles talking about bicyclists being killed even though the bicyclists was walking his bike at the time, so was actually a pedestrian when hit. See? That is one of the many things I mean with poor reporting. You missed the point, Joerg. You're claiming _bicycle_ accidents are poorly reported. The incident I was alluding to was _not_ a bicycle accident, any more than a pedestrian killed in the rain is an "umbrella accident." If you're walking a bike, you're a pedestrian. Overall, I believe the importance attached to bike crashes is a bit excessive. At least one study counted every tiny scratch as an injury worth reporting, and any tiny scratch that a nurse looked at as a "serious injury." That's excessive. Nonsense. Serious studies don't that. The study in question was Hoffman et. al., "Bicycle Commuter Injury Prevention," Journal of Trauma 2010;69: 1112-1119. That was the one that took special care to frequently contact every person in the study to be sure that NO tiny injury was missed, not even little scratches. After this generated complaints of fear mongering, one of the authors said "John Mayberry MD about the Hoffman, et. al. Portland study Co-author John Mayberry said "One criticism mentioned above I would like to rebut is our inclusion of minor injuries in traumatic events. We really had to do that to get statistical power in the analysis. Our premise was that any traumatic event COULD HAVE been serious and therefore correlated with serious traumatic events. Fortunately most bike crashes only result in skinned knees or elbows, but it only takes a few millimeters difference in trajectory or a few more Newtons of force to convert a sprain to a fracture or a contusion to a ruptured spleen." (Emphasis mine.) In other words, they had to include any tiny injury to get enough injuries to study. And gosh, let's pretend that any tiny injury COULD HAVE been serious. (What other activity has that idiotic criterion?) And BTW, he did admit that even a tiny scratch or abrasion was labeled "serious" in the study if (say) it was shown to any nurse or doctor. How does that make sense, except as deliberate fear mongering? And of course, the average American still thinks of bicycling as being a major source of serious brain injury and fatalities, even though bicycling generates only 0.6% of America's TBI fatalities. A brief lesson in statistics. Joerg, there is no way you're qualified to give me a lesson in statistics. The answer is in documents such as this: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/docs/case15.pdf Quote "U.S. bicycle miles traveled range between 5.8 and 21.3 billion per year" and a few lines down, quote "For comparison, U.S. passenger vehicles traveled an estimated 2,061 billion miles in 1991" We know that there are more miles driven than bicycled. We also know there are more miles driven than walked. But if you examine the lifetime risk of serious or fatal Traumatic Brain Injury, you're most likely to get the TBI inside a motor vehicle. (You're even more likely to get it in your home.) If you examine the risk per mile traveled, you're more likely to suffer fatal TBI while walking a mile than by biking a mile. That's also probably true for non-fatal but serious TBI, although nobody seems to track that for pedestrians. Why? Because there's no money to be made by selling pedestrian helmets... yet. If you examine the cost to society, we pay FAR more to care for motor vehicle TBI than for bicycling TBI. That's despite seat belts and air bags. We also pay far more for pedestrian TBI than bike TBI. BTW, regarding automotive serious TBI: Again, it's second only to in-home serious TBI. But people are never told never wear helmets inside cars. In fact, I'll bet that even the dedicated bike helmet fans reading this, when driving their car to the start of a bike ride, don't bother to wear their helmet. They've already paid for it. It might provide _some_ protection. Nobody will see them looking funny. And if they did, we'd soon have lots of anecdotes saying "Oooh, my helmet got a dent! It probably saved my life!" So why not wear it in the car? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#30
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Well, at least we haven't had landslides or cougar encounters
On 4/29/2017 11:41 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/29/2017 10:47 AM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-04-28 13:00, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/28/2017 1:44 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-04-28 09:34, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/28/2017 10:56 AM, Duane wrote: I wish I still had the picture but once in New Orleans riding up HWY 90 I had to brake for an alligator. We've cycled right past basking alligators in Okefenokee park in Georgia. Unless they find some mechanical problem or a witness they may never know what happened. I have a friend that crashed on Le Petit Train du Nord trail which is straight and flat. She was riding alone early but doesn't remember much. It looked like she just passed out. A cycling friend of mine suffered a sort of minor blackout during an easy flat ride. He said he felt strange, then his vision suddenly went black. He was able to stop his bike, stand over it for a while, then resume riding feeling fine. Within a month or two, he had a cardiac defibrillator implanted in his chest. I wonder how many catastrophic medical events either trigger or are mislabeled as bicycle fatalities. Bicycle accidents are notoriously poorly reported. Just a few sentences, a photo and typically zero follow-up. They probably just aren't perceived as too important. I haven't seen evidence that bicycling fatalities are notoriously poorly reported. You might live in a different universe. Even a killed local cyclist is barely worth the space of about half a postcard size in the newspaper and there is hardly any useful detail in the story. "A cyclist westbound on XYZ Avenue was struck by a westbound [insert brand of car here] and died at the scene". That about it in terms of details. A local car accident with fatal outcome commands a lot more detail in reporting in the paper. That's not what I've seen here - although I admit your universe seems very different from most in many ways! In our local news, all traffic fatalities seem to get about the same level of publicity. It's true that the level is usually minimal, typically about 15 seconds of TV news time and about two or three column inches in the newspaper, unless there is something unusual or sensational about the event. Here's an example, from the most prominent news organization: "State troopers say drug use is suspected in a crash that claimed the life of a Toledo area man along the Ohio Turnpike in Jackson Township. The Ohio State Highway Patrol says Edwin Clayton, 69, of Holland, Ohio was killed Monday when his pickup truck went off the eastbound lanes of the turnpike, striking an embankment and a tree. One lane of the tollway was shut down at around 2 p.m. while authorities investigated the crash." That's it. Less than 30 seconds on the news. ... I've seen news articles talking about bicyclists being killed even though the bicyclists was walking his bike at the time, so was actually a pedestrian when hit. See? That is one of the many things I mean with poor reporting. You missed the point, Joerg. You're claiming _bicycle_ accidents are poorly reported. The incident I was alluding to was _not_ a bicycle accident, any more than a pedestrian killed in the rain is an "umbrella accident." If you're walking a bike, you're a pedestrian. Overall, I believe the importance attached to bike crashes is a bit excessive. At least one study counted every tiny scratch as an injury worth reporting, and any tiny scratch that a nurse looked at as a "serious injury." That's excessive. Nonsense. Serious studies don't that. The study in question was Hoffman et. al., "Bicycle Commuter Injury Prevention," Journal of Trauma 2010;69: 1112-1119. That was the one that took special care to frequently contact every person in the study to be sure that NO tiny injury was missed, not even little scratches. After this generated complaints of fear mongering, one of the authors said "John Mayberry MD about the Hoffman, et. al. Portland study Co-author John Mayberry said "One criticism mentioned above I would like to rebut is our inclusion of minor injuries in traumatic events. We really had to do that to get statistical power in the analysis. Our premise was that any traumatic event COULD HAVE been serious and therefore correlated with serious traumatic events. Fortunately most bike crashes only result in skinned knees or elbows, but it only takes a few millimeters difference in trajectory or a few more Newtons of force to convert a sprain to a fracture or a contusion to a ruptured spleen." (Emphasis mine.) In other words, they had to include any tiny injury to get enough injuries to study. And gosh, let's pretend that any tiny injury COULD HAVE been serious. (What other activity has that idiotic criterion?) And BTW, he did admit that even a tiny scratch or abrasion was labeled "serious" in the study if (say) it was shown to any nurse or doctor. How does that make sense, except as deliberate fear mongering? And of course, the average American still thinks of bicycling as being a major source of serious brain injury and fatalities, even though bicycling generates only 0.6% of America's TBI fatalities. A brief lesson in statistics. Joerg, there is no way you're qualified to give me a lesson in statistics. The answer is in documents such as this: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/ped_bike/docs/case15.pdf Quote "U.S. bicycle miles traveled range between 5.8 and 21.3 billion per year" and a few lines down, quote "For comparison, U.S. passenger vehicles traveled an estimated 2,061 billion miles in 1991" We know that there are more miles driven than bicycled. We also know there are more miles driven than walked. But if you examine the lifetime risk of serious or fatal Traumatic Brain Injury, you're most likely to get the TBI inside a motor vehicle. (You're even more likely to get it in your home.) If you examine the risk per mile traveled, you're more likely to suffer fatal TBI while walking a mile than by biking a mile. That's also probably true for non-fatal but serious TBI, although nobody seems to track that for pedestrians. Why? Because there's no money to be made by selling pedestrian helmets... yet. If you examine the cost to society, we pay FAR more to care for motor vehicle TBI than for bicycling TBI. That's despite seat belts and air bags. We also pay far more for pedestrian TBI than bike TBI. BTW, regarding automotive serious TBI: Again, it's second only to in-home serious TBI. But people are never told never wear helmets inside cars. In fact, I'll bet that even the dedicated bike helmet fans reading this, when driving their car to the start of a bike ride, don't bother to wear their helmet. They've already paid for it. It might provide _some_ protection. Nobody will see them looking funny. And if they did, we'd soon have lots of anecdotes saying "Oooh, my helmet got a dent! It probably saved my life!" So why not wear it in the car? Or in a kayak: http://www.channel3000.com/news/2-ka...igan/468901052 A bicycle helmet may have also prevented vocabulary and syntax errors. We'll never know. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
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