hydraulic oil

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:10:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 7:11:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 08:10:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 7:16:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:20:23 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 9:28:35 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:35:04 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/6/2017 10:41 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Strange. I last waxed the chain on one of my Bangkok Bikes on 27 Jan,
this year, and since then I've ridden it, according to my records,
some 23 hours, on 7 rides. I just went out and ran a finger over the
chain.... still got wax on it.

Yes, there will still be wax on the outside.

And in another post I reported that I took an old chain that had been
wax lubricated for about a year and found wax inside the links and
rollers.

OK - but was the wax displaced when the pin pushed it aside? Being there isn't the same as wearing out faster for lack of lubricating qualities.

Of course it was. Just exactly as an oil or grease is displaced
between a bearing and a journal. And it is displaced by an amount that
is dependent (in a non pressurized plain bearing) on the viscosity of
the lubricant, and the load on the bearing/journal.

John - you don't understand how a lubricant works do you?

Well, possibly not. Although I might say that I have two years of
engineering school and an Associate degree and I've built a number of
bearing systems (that worked).

But I am always willing to learn something new so enlighten me, in
detail please. Just how does hydrodynamic lubrication work, with
emphasis on why my statement that "displacement of lubricant (in a non
pressurized plain bearing) depends on the viscosity of the lubricant,
and the load on the bearing/journal." is incorrect.

What is incorrect that lubricants are "displaced" as wax is. These are extremely long-chained molecules that are not displaced. That is their entire purpose. Or maybe more accurately - the oil film is not completely displaced and as soon as the pressure is removed they flow right back in and reform the heavier layer.


You've sort of lost me. You stated that I didn't understand
lubrication systems. I say tell me. And you get into this "incorrect
that lubricants are "displaced" as wax is"? What kind of
gobbel-di-goop is this? The first lubricant use that has been
identified was the use of Calcium soaps that has been identified on
the axles of chariots dated to 1400 BC. More modern lubricants run the
range the olive oils used by the Romans to the lard used on the
Conestoga wagons to the petroleum oils and now synthetics.

By the way:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax#Pe..._derived_waxes

Waxes are organic compounds that characteristically consist of long
alkyl chains. They may also include various functional groups such as
fatty acids, primary and secondary long chain alcohols, unsaturated
bonds, aromatics, amides, ketones, and aldehydes. They frequently
contain fatty acid esters as well. Synthetic waxes are often
long-chain hydrocarbons (alkanes or paraffins) that lack functional
groups.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 09:16:37 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 6/10/2017 9:10 AM, wrote:
On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 7:11:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 08:10:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 7:16:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:20:23 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 9:28:35 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:35:04 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/6/2017 10:41 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Strange. I last waxed the chain on one of my Bangkok Bikes on 27 Jan,
this year, and since then I've ridden it, according to my records,
some 23 hours, on 7 rides. I just went out and ran a finger over the
chain.... still got wax on it.

Yes, there will still be wax on the outside.

And in another post I reported that I took an old chain that had been
wax lubricated for about a year and found wax inside the links and
rollers.

OK - but was the wax displaced when the pin pushed it aside? Being there isn't the same as wearing out faster for lack of lubricating qualities.

Of course it was. Just exactly as an oil or grease is displaced
between a bearing and a journal. And it is displaced by an amount that
is dependent (in a non pressurized plain bearing) on the viscosity of
the lubricant, and the load on the bearing/journal.

John - you don't understand how a lubricant works do you?

Well, possibly not. Although I might say that I have two years of
engineering school and an Associate degree and I've built a number of
bearing systems (that worked).

But I am always willing to learn something new so enlighten me, in
detail please. Just how does hydrodynamic lubrication work, with
emphasis on why my statement that "displacement of lubricant (in a non
pressurized plain bearing) depends on the viscosity of the lubricant,
and the load on the bearing/journal." is incorrect.

What is incorrect that lubricants are "displaced" as wax is. These are extremely long-chained molecules that are not displaced. That is their entire purpose. Or maybe more accurately - the oil film is not completely displaced and as soon as the pressure is removed they flow right back in and reform the heavier layer.


Well, yes and no.
As Mr Slocumb mentioned, the viscosity ratings of lubricants
correspond to expected loads and surface area of the bearing
to avoid film displacement.

There are even bearings that are air lubricated :-)
(also known as aerostatical or aerodynamical bearings)

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:22:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 7:11:41 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2017 1:03 PM, sms wrote:
On 6/8/2017 9:21 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'm telling you what I experience. And yes, it's wax with oil that
I'm using, as I've always said. But FWIW, I believe it's both the wax
and oil that lubricate.

You believe a lot of things for which there is no evidence, so that's
not a very compelling argument.

I note that a few hours after you posted that, you said: "I don't think
that anyone argues that wax doesn't lubricate or reduce friction, just
look at glide wax for skis."

So wax does lubricate when you say it? But wax doesn't lubricate when I
say it?

That's so Scharfian! :-)

The difference is the amount of load as a lubricant that it will take. The loading on the wax on skis is very light. On a chain it is VERY high inside the rollers.

This is what I was just talking to John about. If an oil IS displaced by the pressure it is the incorrect weight/strength.


Well, I suppose that you must be right and paraffin won't work. Maybe
it is the geographical location?

James tells us that he rides 10,000 km on his chains with wax
lubricant. Maybe if he change to something different his chains would
last for ever?

Or maybe it only works in the Southern Hemisphere?

The thing I don't understand about this discussion is that James,
Frank and I all use wax lubrication with gratifying results. James
rides something in the neighborhood of 10,000 miles a year with wax,
Frank and party rode across the U.S. with wax and I've used it
successfully for a number of years.

And we've got two or three guys hollering "It Won't Work?"
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 19:25:00 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 11:33:05 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 6:03:55 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2017 5:25 PM, sms wrote:
On 6/9/2017 8:10 AM, wrote:

snip

John - you don't understand how a lubricant works do you?

The key is to find a way to heat the chain continuously so the wax can
flow back onto the surfaces of the rollers and bearings.

One of the links that Frank provided, that apparently he didn't actually
read, advises to periodically heat the chain with a torch to get the wax
back onto the surfaces that rub against each other.

Again: I've used my method for probably 20 years, after trying almost
every other possibility.

The chains go many hundreds of miles before giving the first very tiny
squeaks. Sometimes those squeaks cure themselves; but if they don't, I
rewax.

I suppose I could skip the wax and just use the torch to reheat the
chain - but why? It would save almost no time over the usual waxing
procedure.

I don't think that anyone argues that wax doesn't lubricate or reduce
friction...

Well son of a gun, that's a change!

just look at glide wax for skis.

Indeed. Or look at how slippery a freshly waxed floor can be.

Pfff. Run your fingers over a freshly waxed ski base. It is not very slippery -- except to a water molecule at a particular temperature, and tacky paraffin on a pair of skis would turn them into snow shoes.

Floor "wax" is a polymer concoction that bears no resemblance to paraffin. If you soaked your chain in floor wax and let it dry, the links would stick together. Some industrial floor waxes are practically as tough as Varathane. Might as well varnish your chain. Ever walked in stocking feet across a freshly varnished basketball court? It's super slippery! I think we need to stick to the effect of wax between mechanical parts and not socks or snow.

I was never heavily into XC skiing, but ISTM the "glide wax" that I sometimes
applied was indistinguishable from canning paraffin. It seemed slippery to me.

Actually, as a kid living in a small town that was very much a "Ski
Town" I can assure you that we all used a half a stick of our mother's
"canning wax", i.e., paraffin, to wax our skis. And toboggans and some
even tried it on sled runners but it didn't work there :-)

And I don't know the chemistry of floor waxes. We've got floors that don't
require wax these days. But whatever the heck we used to put on floors was
certainly slippery.

But as long as we're discussing the stuff, people use wax as a lubricant on
things like wood screws, sliding drawers, table saw tables, zippers, etc.

I use it on other things that need low friction where I don't want grease
smears. One example: Our Bikes Friday New World Tourists have a super-long
stem that slides into or out of an extension of the steering tube during the
folding or unfolding process. It's a tight sliding fit, but I don't want
grease there. I scrape some paraffin onto the stem and it slides much
easier, and stays clean.

I also use it on the shift cables of bikes where those pass under the bottom
bracket guides. IME oil or grease gets dirt caked there, clogging the works.
Paraffin is probably not quite as slippery as fresh oil or grease, but it's
good enough and doesn't clog with grime.

I'm not saying anyone has to use it. I'm saying it works for me. Seems
silly to say it's not slippery.

- Frank Krygowski


--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sunday, June 11, 2017 at 6:18:08 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:22:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 7:11:41 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2017 1:03 PM, sms wrote:
On 6/8/2017 9:21 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'm telling you what I experience. And yes, it's wax with oil that
I'm using, as I've always said. But FWIW, I believe it's both the wax
and oil that lubricate.

You believe a lot of things for which there is no evidence, so that's
not a very compelling argument.

I note that a few hours after you posted that, you said: "I don't think
that anyone argues that wax doesn't lubricate or reduce friction, just
look at glide wax for skis."

So wax does lubricate when you say it? But wax doesn't lubricate when I
say it?

That's so Scharfian! :-)

The difference is the amount of load as a lubricant that it will take. The loading on the wax on skis is very light. On a chain it is VERY high inside the rollers.

This is what I was just talking to John about. If an oil IS displaced by the pressure it is the incorrect weight/strength.


Well, I suppose that you must be right and paraffin won't work. Maybe
it is the geographical location?

James tells us that he rides 10,000 km on his chains with wax
lubricant. Maybe if he change to something different his chains would
last for ever?

Or maybe it only works in the Southern Hemisphere?

The thing I don't understand about this discussion is that James,
Frank and I all use wax lubrication with gratifying results. James
rides something in the neighborhood of 10,000 miles a year with wax,
Frank and party rode across the U.S. with wax and I've used it
successfully for a number of years.

And we've got two or three guys hollering "It Won't Work?"
--
Cheers,

John B.

Yes, and I've done all those things without wax. Few people wax, and the likelihood that an ordinary person is going to take a propane torch to his or her chain or cook a chain on the stove-top is low. Not that wax isn't super-great, but so are sew-ups and checkered-patterned inter-woven bar tape.

I'll try wax in fall when I'm riding 80% of the time in the rain and see if it really works any better than more frequent use of whatever spray-crap I have next to the garage door. I'll ride home in the gloom of my dyno light and then destat, and clean a LP -- brush the stylus and bask in the lush life of vinyl, wax homemade electrons. Maybe go back to steel and wool, but not steel wool.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sunday, June 11, 2017 at 5:57:06 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:10:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 7:11:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 08:10:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 7:16:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:20:23 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 9:28:35 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:35:04 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/6/2017 10:41 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Strange. I last waxed the chain on one of my Bangkok Bikes on 27 Jan,
this year, and since then I've ridden it, according to my records,
some 23 hours, on 7 rides. I just went out and ran a finger over the
chain.... still got wax on it.

Yes, there will still be wax on the outside.

And in another post I reported that I took an old chain that had been
wax lubricated for about a year and found wax inside the links and
rollers.

OK - but was the wax displaced when the pin pushed it aside? Being there isn't the same as wearing out faster for lack of lubricating qualities.

Of course it was. Just exactly as an oil or grease is displaced
between a bearing and a journal. And it is displaced by an amount that
is dependent (in a non pressurized plain bearing) on the viscosity of
the lubricant, and the load on the bearing/journal.

John - you don't understand how a lubricant works do you?

Well, possibly not. Although I might say that I have two years of
engineering school and an Associate degree and I've built a number of
bearing systems (that worked).

But I am always willing to learn something new so enlighten me, in
detail please. Just how does hydrodynamic lubrication work, with
emphasis on why my statement that "displacement of lubricant (in a non
pressurized plain bearing) depends on the viscosity of the lubricant,
and the load on the bearing/journal." is incorrect.

What is incorrect that lubricants are "displaced" as wax is. These are extremely long-chained molecules that are not displaced. That is their entire purpose. Or maybe more accurately - the oil film is not completely displaced and as soon as the pressure is removed they flow right back in and reform the heavier layer.


You've sort of lost me. You stated that I didn't understand
lubrication systems. I say tell me. And you get into this "incorrect
that lubricants are "displaced" as wax is"? What kind of
gobbel-di-goop is this? The first lubricant use that has been
identified was the use of Calcium soaps that has been identified on
the axles of chariots dated to 1400 BC. More modern lubricants run the
range the olive oils used by the Romans to the lard used on the
Conestoga wagons to the petroleum oils and now synthetics.

By the way:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax#Pe..._derived_waxes

Waxes are organic compounds that characteristically consist of long
alkyl chains. They may also include various functional groups such as
fatty acids, primary and secondary long chain alcohols, unsaturated
bonds, aromatics, amides, ketones, and aldehydes. They frequently
contain fatty acid esters as well. Synthetic waxes are often
long-chain hydrocarbons (alkanes or paraffins) that lack functional
groups.

John, I did not say anything about lubricating systems since that is a subject so complex we couldn't talk about it.

If you don't mind me quoting, you said, "Just exactly as an oil or grease is displaced between a bearing and a journal." To which I responded, "you don't understand how a lubricant works do you?" since the entire idea of a lubricant is to NOT be displaced.

If that was a mis-speak of yours then I beg your pardon but that is what I responded to.

On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 07:21:22 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Sunday, June 11, 2017 at 6:18:08 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:22:37 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, June 10, 2017 at 7:11:41 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/9/2017 1:03 PM, sms wrote:
On 6/8/2017 9:21 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'm telling you what I experience. And yes, it's wax with oil that
I'm using, as I've always said. But FWIW, I believe it's both the wax
and oil that lubricate.

You believe a lot of things for which there is no evidence, so that's
not a very compelling argument.

I note that a few hours after you posted that, you said: "I don't think
that anyone argues that wax doesn't lubricate or reduce friction, just
look at glide wax for skis."

So wax does lubricate when you say it? But wax doesn't lubricate when I
say it?

That's so Scharfian! :-)

The difference is the amount of load as a lubricant that it will take. The loading on the wax on skis is very light. On a chain it is VERY high inside the rollers.

This is what I was just talking to John about. If an oil IS displaced by the pressure it is the incorrect weight/strength.


Well, I suppose that you must be right and paraffin won't work. Maybe
it is the geographical location?

James tells us that he rides 10,000 km on his chains with wax
lubricant. Maybe if he change to something different his chains would
last for ever?

Or maybe it only works in the Southern Hemisphere?

The thing I don't understand about this discussion is that James,
Frank and I all use wax lubrication with gratifying results. James
rides something in the neighborhood of 10,000 miles a year with wax,
Frank and party rode across the U.S. with wax and I've used it
successfully for a number of years.

And we've got two or three guys hollering "It Won't Work?"
--
Cheers,

John B.

Yes, and I've done all those things without wax. Few people wax, and the likelihood that an ordinary person is going to take a propane torch to his or her chain or cook a chain on the stove-top is low. Not that wax isn't super-great, but so are sew-ups and checkered-patterned inter-woven bar tape.

Exactly. But both Frank and I have been castigated just about every
time we mention "wax" and the naysayers all state that it doesn't
work! Seldom, if ever, do they mention that "Oh, I'm too lazy to do
that", although as you say, that is probably the real reason.

Frank continually tells people how he waxes chains with a blowtorch
and they argue that "Wax Won't Work". Tom mentioned the imagined
dangers of using a butane torch on a bicycle but that is really a
matter of relative skills rather then real danger.

By the way, Velo Orange is still selling cotton bar tape :-) Two
versions the regular old tape for $5.00 a set, in 9 colors, and a
NEW! Comfy Tape that is thicker. In 4 colors for $12.00 a pop.



I'll try wax in fall when I'm riding 80% of the time in the rain and see if it really works any better than more frequent use of whatever spray-crap I have next to the garage door. I'll ride home in the gloom of my dyno light and then destat, and clean a LP -- brush the stylus and bask in the lush life of vinyl, wax homemade electrons. Maybe go back to steel and wool, but not steel wool.

-- Jay Beattie.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 12:05:16 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, June 11, 2017 at 5:57:06 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:10:09 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 7:11:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jun 2017 08:10:43 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 7:16:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jun 2017 07:20:23 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, June 7, 2017 at 9:28:35 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jun 2017 12:35:04 -0700, sms
wrote:

On 6/6/2017 10:41 PM, John B. wrote:

snip

Strange. I last waxed the chain on one of my Bangkok Bikes on 27 Jan,
this year, and since then I've ridden it, according to my records,
some 23 hours, on 7 rides. I just went out and ran a finger over the
chain.... still got wax on it.

Yes, there will still be wax on the outside.

And in another post I reported that I took an old chain that had been
wax lubricated for about a year and found wax inside the links and
rollers.

OK - but was the wax displaced when the pin pushed it aside? Being there isn't the same as wearing out faster for lack of lubricating qualities.

Of course it was. Just exactly as an oil or grease is displaced
between a bearing and a journal. And it is displaced by an amount that
is dependent (in a non pressurized plain bearing) on the viscosity of
the lubricant, and the load on the bearing/journal.

John - you don't understand how a lubricant works do you?

Well, possibly not. Although I might say that I have two years of
engineering school and an Associate degree and I've built a number of
bearing systems (that worked).

But I am always willing to learn something new so enlighten me, in
detail please. Just how does hydrodynamic lubrication work, with
emphasis on why my statement that "displacement of lubricant (in a non
pressurized plain bearing) depends on the viscosity of the lubricant,
and the load on the bearing/journal." is incorrect.

What is incorrect that lubricants are "displaced" as wax is. These are extremely long-chained molecules that are not displaced. That is their entire purpose. Or maybe more accurately - the oil film is not completely displaced and as soon as the pressure is removed they flow right back in and reform the heavier layer.


You've sort of lost me. You stated that I didn't understand
lubrication systems. I say tell me. And you get into this "incorrect
that lubricants are "displaced" as wax is"? What kind of
gobbel-di-goop is this? The first lubricant use that has been
identified was the use of Calcium soaps that has been identified on
the axles of chariots dated to 1400 BC. More modern lubricants run the
range the olive oils used by the Romans to the lard used on the
Conestoga wagons to the petroleum oils and now synthetics.

By the way:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax#Pe..._derived_waxes

Waxes are organic compounds that characteristically consist of long
alkyl chains. They may also include various functional groups such as
fatty acids, primary and secondary long chain alcohols, unsaturated
bonds, aromatics, amides, ketones, and aldehydes. They frequently
contain fatty acid esters as well. Synthetic waxes are often
long-chain hydrocarbons (alkanes or paraffins) that lack functional
groups.

John, I did not say anything about lubricating systems since that is a subject so complex we couldn't talk about it.

If you don't mind me quoting, you said, "Just exactly as an oil or grease
is displaced between a bearing and a journal." To which I responded,
"you don't understand how a lubricant works do you?" since the entire
idea of a lubricant is to NOT be displaced.

If that was a mis-speak of yours then I beg your pardon but that is what I responded to.

Actually any bearing will displace the lubricant that is on the bottom
side of the bearing - journal axis. All of them. Your contention that
some how, some sort of lubricant remains between the bearing and the
journal is not correct.

What does happen, in some cases, is that there is a microscopic amount
of lubricant that remains in the metal pore, think "oilite" bearing
for example. But that doesn't seem to be what you are saying.

But the point is that in spite of all the arguments that "wax won't
work", it does. James says that he rides 10,000 on his waxed chains.
Frank says he rode across the U.S. on wax, I say that I've ridden for
a number of years on wax.

All the discussion of long chain, short chain, wiggle in the middle
chain, is meaningless. Wax Works!

Whether you elect to use it though is up to you. I don't believe
anyone is preaching that the entire world must be waxed.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/11/2017 7:21 AM, jbeattie wrote:

I'll try wax in fall when I'm riding 80% of the time in the rain and see if it really works any better than more frequent use of whatever spray-crap I have next to the garage door.

Jay, would you like to attend Interbike in September in Las Vegas? For
the cost of a plane ticket, you can stock up on free samples of the
latest and greatest chain lubricants.

Every time I go to Interbike, there must be 50 booths hawking the latest
and greatest lubricants and cleaners. Of course the reality is that
these are almost all just re-formulations and re-packaging of a very
small number of common ingredients.

The fact remains that for bicycle chains, you should use a
non-water-based solvent to clean chains, and a penetrating chain
lubricant to lubricate the chain. You don't have to spend a lot of money
or a lot of time on chain maintenance to have a well-lubricated,
long-lasting chain, but there are few things that you have to not do.

On Thursday, June 15, 2017 at 1:54:06 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 6/11/2017 7:21 AM, jbeattie wrote:

I'll try wax in fall when I'm riding 80% of the time in the rain and see if it really works any better than more frequent use of whatever spray-crap I have next to the garage door.

Jay, would you like to attend Interbike in September in Las Vegas? For
the cost of a plane ticket, you can stock up on free samples of the
latest and greatest chain lubricants.

Every time I go to Interbike, there must be 50 booths hawking the latest
and greatest lubricants and cleaners. Of course the reality is that
these are almost all just re-formulations and re-packaging of a very
small number of common ingredients.

The fact remains that for bicycle chains, you should use a
non-water-based solvent to clean chains, and a penetrating chain
lubricant to lubricate the chain. You don't have to spend a lot of money
or a lot of time on chain maintenance to have a well-lubricated,
long-lasting chain, but there are few things that you have to not do.

I'm changing my Basso from 9 to 10 speeds simply because 9 speed parts are getting so hard to come by. Anyway, I bought a Shimano 10 speed chain and it is dry from the looks of it through the window in the package.

If I'm forced to clean a chain I have begun using Rock n Roll which is largely PTFE I believe. I don't shoot this expensive stuff on the chain but go link by link and let it dry overnight.