Clothing for the Cold question

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:56:16 -0400, dgk wrote:

guilty about supporting cheap labor. I wonder if the folks making the
Brand Name stuff get paid any better. Somehow I doubt it.

Me, too.

I intend to ride down to 20F or so.

That's about where it gets tough going. You really do need to have good
clothes for that, unless you are talking a very short commute.

46F. We'll see. I did get a fairly expensive outer layer Jacket
(Cannondale) which is water resistant. I am not sure what that means.

Not much. Get some spray treatment for it, which will help.


As for rain, I'm not in favor of it. I have managed to avoid biking on
rainy days so far.

It's not that horrid. Prepare for it and you can deal with it. Fenders.
Water-repellent spray on your outer layer.

wet. I would think that it is not really safe riding in crappy weather
in NYC.

Yeah, that is not too much fun. But, if you can use the multi-use paths
along the rivers (in Manhatten, that is), those are safe enough in the
rain. Use lights, even in the daytime. Bright ones.

So much to look forward to. Now, what about those studded tires...

I just got some of those, from Sheldon Brown. Haven't tried them, but am
skeered of riding on ice without 'em.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. --
_`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:45:14 +0000, Peter Cole wrote:
http://home.comcast.net/~peter_cole/P2190003.JPG (I'm the tall one in
black with a yellow helmet)

Dang. That is pretty tall. How big is that bike, anyway? 65cm?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The lottery is a tax on those who fail to understand
_`\(,_ | mathematics.
(_)/ (_) |

In article , Bill Baka
wrote:

The weather here in northern California just dropped from the low 90's
to low 60's with rain, in one week. I haven't been on the bike for about
4 days now and I am trying to come up with a strategy. Since you always
get warmer as you ride I am thinking of using my back pack for clothing.
That means starting out well dressed and as I heat up or the weather gets
warmer during the day I can put the sweater, gloves or whatever in the
back pack. This may work until it gets really cold and heavy jackets are
needed, but that is where I stop anything like a long trip. I found out
last year that it is too easy to get all sweaty in a thick jacket, and
taking it off puts you back into the freezing mode. Multiple sweat tops
and two pair of gloves, thick and thin, might work, but there is still
that issue of having to ride with a back pack.
I was hoping for a gradual cooldown and not a kablam.
This looks like a good time for ideas.

One trick I use in marginal weather is a neck scarf (I actually use this
fleece neck-donut thingy that acts as a sort of add-on turtleneck). It's
quite effective at taking the edge off a marginally cold day (just a
little too chilly for jersey and arm warmers).

A neck scarf is easy to slip off when you warm up, or you can just open
your jersey a bit to let in some cool air. In this wa it serves as a
poor man's (well, cheap man's) answer to a racer's sleeveless vest,
which usually has a waterproof synthetic front and a mesh back. That's
probably the ideal garment for marginal conditions, combining simple
removal and a small bundle with a surprising amount of warmth.

Jobst has posted before on the importance of garments that don't flap,
and my experiments seem to bear him out. I have a pretty serious rain
jacket, but I need to do something to tie up the upper arms.

This morning I rode to work. It was about 10C, dry, and I started out in
just a plain jersey, shorts, and limb warmers, plus neoprene booties in
case the predicted rain arrived (it didn't). I started out just a bit
cool until I hit the serious hill 2 km into the ride, and was completely
comfortable the rest of the way.

--
Ryan Cousineau, http://www.wiredcola.com
Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 16:44:24 -0700, Bill Baka wrote:

Kind of hard core biking, isn't it? I draw the line at rain since the
tires throw it up in my face and that gets old in a hurry.

Fenders

Same thing for
puddles after the rain, either avoid or slow down to walking speed to get
past them. Snow would be better to ride in but this part of California
only gets rain all the time.

Being a Californian, you wouldn't know, but snow is a RPITA. Rain doesn't
cling to the tires, making any tire a slick. Rain doesn't clog up the
brakes and collect in the spokes. Rain doesn't cover up a layer of ice.
Granted, snow is slower to soak our clothes, but anything beyond a flurry
in terms of snow brings out all of the above.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front
_`\(,_ | of enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of
(_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The
internet has proven this not to be the case.

dgk wrote:

So much to look forward to. Now, what about those studded tires...

They work great!

I've got a set of Nokians with knobs and 196 studs. Used them
over two winters now and they seem to do the trick.

However, I've got two wheelsets for winter use which I would
swap in and out as needed, or occasionally mix (front studded,
rear fat Avocet Cross). Around here in western MA, we can get
quite a bit of snow, or just rain and ice during a winter.
Roads are usually clear enough to ride with the "road tires"
a couple or three days after a snow storm, so the road tires
get most winter use.

But when there is snow, or when the ice forms along the side
after a day of melting and evening of refreezing, the studded
tires are really good for your sense of confidence.

You can make your own studded snow tires from knobbies if you
don't mind drilling rubber. Put sheet metal screws in the
knobs. However, if you ride pavement frequently, you will
wear the screws down to worthless inside of a couple weeks.
They're fine on snow/ice bound paths, but fade quickly on
hard pavement. You can also buy carbide studs at some bike
shops or tire places and use those instead of screws.

BTW, my experience of the best winter riding item is a balaclava;
a sort of hooded garment open for your face. Makes a huge
difference in winter comfort! More useful than studded tires
in the grand scheme of things, at least in the sorts of winters
I've experienced bike commuting the past two years.


SMH

Ryan Cousineau wrote
One trick I use in marginal weather is a neck scarf

I've seen these in catalogs, but never considered this use. Sounds great.

Jobst has posted before on the importance of garments that don't flap,
and my experiments seem to bear him out. I have a pretty serious rain
jacket, but I need to do something to tie up the upper arms.

Fab might mock but what about rubber bands: the elegance of simplicity.
--Roy Zipris

"David L. Johnson" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:45:14 +0000, Peter Cole wrote:
http://home.comcast.net/~peter_cole/P2190003.JPG (I'm the tall one in
black with a yellow helmet)

Dang. That is pretty tall. How big is that bike, anyway? 65cm?

Actually, it's a 68cm Fuji touring frame. I have a few frames of this
vintage (70-80's), when big frames were fashionable. Of course, being
6'10", these are compact frames for me. I have been asked more than once if
I was running 650c wheels. The other nice thing about those frames is that
they are all horizontal dropout, which makes them great for fixed-gear
conversions, if you're into that kind of thing. The Fuji is set up as a
fixed gear with studded tires, it works pretty well in snow & ice.

On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:45:14 GMT, "Peter Cole"
wrote:


"Bill Baka" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:52:01 -0400, dgk
wrote:

On 18 Oct 2004 19:04:37 GMT, David Reuteler wrote:

Badger_South wrote:
The function of biking gloves isn't really to keep your hands warm,
though.
I use mine to wipe the tires, check the chain, reduce some vibration
and
prevent road rash.

they're snot rags. in the winter that's their secondary purpose
(first
is
warmth). try also a lighter wool glove underneath something heavier
like
the pearl izumi pittards glove or one of the lobster gloves if it gets
much below 10F.

most, making them nice for a second layer. The advantage of wool over
acryllic is that even when wet, wool can keep you warm, I believe.

i love wool. this is my favourite base layer:

http://www.vintagevelos.com/baseLS-extreme.html

this under a l/s wool jersey and a sugoi jacket gets me down to 10F.
not
that it ever gets that cold here in sw idaho. dressing for winter is
yet
another wasted skillset for me (somewhat happily so, i suppose).

I saved that link. First I'll see if I can get by with Mom's sweaters.
I have an abundance of them. Luckily there are a few grandkids popping
out so she shifted to making sweaters for them.

The weather here in northern California just dropped from the low 90's
to low 60's with rain, in one week. I haven't been on the bike for about
4 days now and I am trying to come up with a strategy. Since you always
get warmer as you ride I am thinking of using my back pack for clothing.
That means starting out well dressed and as I heat up or the weather gets
warmer during the day I can put the sweater, gloves or whatever in the
back pack. This may work until it gets really cold and heavy jackets are
needed, but that is where I stop anything like a long trip. I found out
last year that it is too easy to get all sweaty in a thick jacket, and
taking it off puts you back into the freezing mode. Multiple sweat tops
and two pair of gloves, thick and thin, might work, but there is still
that issue of having to ride with a back pack.
I was hoping for a gradual cooldown and not a kablam.
This looks like a good time for ideas.

This picture shows a group of us heading out for a couple of hour ride with
a starting temp of 0 F last winter.
http://home.comcast.net/~peter_cole/P2190003.JPG
(I'm the tall one in black with a yellow helmet)

I was way too warm. The secret to cold weather riding is vents/zippers and
layers. This allows you to fine tune insulation and moisture control. The 2
real problem areas are hands and feet. The cheap hand solution is mittens &
shells for real cold, or 2 pairs of gloves. I use thin X/C skiing gloves
under fleece gloves most of the time, mittens only for real frigid. Bigger
shoes with extra socks is the cheapest solution for feet, even sneakers
work fine down to single digits with thick enough socks.

It's hard to beat synthetic fleece for light weight warmth and good vapor
transfer. I prefer not to use fancy "windblocking" fleece, since a thin
nylon/poly vest worn over is cheaper and allows better tuning. Stretch
synthetic fleece tights work amazingly well, if you don't do tights, fleece
warm-ups work, but the circulating air makes them much less effective for
warmth.

If I'm going out long, or alone, I always pack an extra layer in case I get
chilled or have to stop. I might bungee extra clothes to a rear rack,
camelback, or even the handlebar. Another advantage of fleece is that it
rolls up small. Usually, 3 light layers on top is enough, opening zippers,
removing the outer wind vest, etc. allows enough adjustability. A typical
setup on a 20-40 deg. day is stretch fleece LS top, regular mid-weight
fleece LS jacket, poly wind vest (mesh back), with stretch fleece tights
over regular bike shorts.

Cold rain is the hardest thing to dress for. I use a full supplex (DWR)
jacket with a lot of vents, PVC rain pants shortened to knicker length,
latex shoe covers, and neoprene gloves. I picked up the last 2 items at a
mail-order industrial supply house (McMaster-Carr). In all my cold rain
glory:

http://home.comcast.net/~peter_cole/ice5.jpg


A ton of good advice. Thanks. I'm not really thrilled about the slush
you just went through.

David L. Johnson wrote:

Being a Californian, you wouldn't know, but snow is a RPITA.

Just to set the record straight, it does snow in California. A foot
is predicted by tomorrow morning. Up to an inch of rain in the
lowlands.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:04:54 -0700, Terry Morse wrote:

David L. Johnson wrote:

Being a Californian, you wouldn't know, but snow is a RPITA.

Just to set the record straight, it does snow in California. A foot is
predicted by tomorrow morning. Up to an inch of rain in the lowlands.

In Palo Alto? Or is that foot of snow in the Sierras? That won't affect
your commuting much. Snow in the Sierras was always fun; we who lived in
the Valley would drive up just to see it. Snow on city streets, on your
sidewalk, blocking your back door; that's different.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all
_`\(,_ | mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so
(_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am
nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]