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Tube Soake In Oil Results
Last month, I took a piece of inner tube that had been
soaking in oil (forgotten for a few months) and found that Joe Riel was quite right about oil reducing the tensile strength of butyl rubber--I found that I could pull the piece of inner tube apart into oddly rectangular chunks, smaller and smaller, without much effort, while an unoiled piece from the same inner tube just stretched, even when cut into thinner and thinner strips: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...bb7cae81741162 This picture shows the oiled piece turned into confetti with my bare fingers (I'm no Schwarzenegger) with the unoiled piece (cut into three thinner and thinner strips with scissors) that I couldn't tear apart: http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/d...d/tube_oil.jpg Those are two ordinary paper staples holding the widest unoiled strip down, which gives some idea of size. The three long strips rolled together form a section of 700c inner tube running from top to bottom of the picture. Intrigued, I stuffed a whole inner tube into a plastic jar, filled it with 10w-40, and forgot about it until a post just now from Mark Hickey reminded me that he had wondered about oil from a chain getting onto the tube by running down the valve stem. I took the tube out to the trash can in the alley, wiped it off, and inflated it with a hand pump until it was about 4 feet tall. Nothing happened, so I got a dry inner tube of the same brand from the garage, and inflated it to the same size. Obviously, the oil hadn't weakened the tube enough to matter, so I carried it back into the garage, still inflated, to wipe it off some more and publish my incredible negative results. Bang! The oiled tube exploded while I was carrying it, a 2 & 1/4" split about a foot from the valve along a seam running the long way around the inside curve. Intrigued again, I deflated and compared the two tubes. The oiled tube had stretched to about 18 inches longer than the similarly inflated dry tube. It's not easy to measure such low pressures, but neither tube would raise the needle on my floor pump--a stroke of the pump would see about 5 psi, the tube would expand, and the needle would drop to 0. The constraint of the tire and rim would limit the tube expansion, but the tube would bulge and stretch a bit into the valve hole and around the heads of spoke nipples and so forth. Again, I take back what I said long ago about oil not affecting inner tubes. Here's Joe's post predicting that butyl inner tubes (with "poor oil resistance") will lose "more than 60%" of their tensile strength when contaminated: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...f2e67d73d5045d Joe's post is a little bit up from where that link takes you. Carl Fogel |
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#2
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Tube Soake In Oil Results
Carl Fogel writes:
Last month, I took a piece of inner tube that had been soaking in oil (forgotten for a few months) and found that Joe Riel was quite right about oil reducing the tensile strength of butyl rubber--I found that I could pull the piece of inner tube apart into oddly rectangular chunks, smaller and smaller, without much effort, while an unoiled piece from the same inner tube just stretched, even when cut into thinner and thinner strips: I took the tube out to the trash can in the alley, wiped it off, and inflated it with a hand pump until it was about 4 feet tall. Nothing happened, so I got a dry inner tube of the same brand from the garage, and inflated it to the same size. From your description, it seems we need a different test, one of installing a tube that has been similarly treated and then ride it until something fails. From what you say, the oiled tube had enough elasticity to stretch substantially. In the tire, reasonably sized tubes do not do that. Your test showed that there is deterioration but not that it made the tube unserviceable. Besides, it sounded like an extreme case of casual oil getting on the tube. This seldom occurs to this degree. That is why I don't think this can be used to explain mysterious tube failures often reported here. Proffering this concept here only leads to more excuses for failed tubes that in fact failed for faulty installation or maintenance. |
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Tube Soake In Oil Results
Jim,
If you've got a point then please state it. I already got the message, over many threads, that jobst b. seems to rub you up the wrong way: You can take that as a given, no need to keep hammering it home. |
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Tube Soake In Oil Results
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#6
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Tube Soake In Oil Results
What isn't clear to me is what a small amount of lubricating oil, suc as what could seep through a spoke nipple or perhaps a valve stem hole does to a butyl tube over a longer time span than Mr. Fogel's tests. I is clear to me that large amounts of oil will degrade butyl rubber, an fairly quickly in terms of expected inner tube lifespan. At this point all I can say is that I will be cautious about gettin lube on my innertubes -- waxbytes |
#7
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Tube Soake In Oil Results
jim beam wrote:
wrote: Jim, If you've got a point then please state it. I already got the message, over many threads, that jobst b. seems to rub you up the wrong way: You can take that as a given, no need to keep hammering it home. the point is, if anyone bothered to check, is that butyl rubbers /are/ degraded by mineral oils. but jobst didn't bother checking facts before he announced that there was no harm caused, so he's now casting about with weasily excuses which amount to bad advice. bottom line, if you do oil spoke nipples, you run the risk of having that oil seep through to the tube and the tube can rupture. that can spoil your day, particularly on a long fast downhill with bends in it and oncoming traffic. sure, tires puncture due to road hazards as well, but why multiply the risk? Yes, you should never risk oil-contaminated tubes when hauling nitroglycerin past orphanages. |
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Tube Soake In Oil Results
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 03:07:03 +1000, waxbytes
wrote: What isn't clear to me is what a small amount of lubricating oil, such as what could seep through a spoke nipple or perhaps a valve stem hole, does to a butyl tube over a longer time span than Mr. Fogel's tests. It is clear to me that large amounts of oil will degrade butyl rubber, and fairly quickly in terms of expected inner tube lifespan. At this point all I can say is that I will be cautious about getting lube on my innertubes. Dear Waxbytes, It's not clear to me, either. On the one hand, the tubes that I mistreated suffered for only a month or two, not the year or two that seems more likely for normal tubes. On the other hand, the tubes held their breath under far more oil than any normal tube would ever see. On the third hand, the original tube section that I ended up pulling to pieces was oiled on both the inside and outside surface, since it was just a short section of tube cut with scissors. The intact tube that blew out was presumably dry inside, just like an inner tube in real use. (But the rubber on the supposedly dry tube seems to be just as oily as the outside--I suspect that the oil soaks into the tube, which remains shiny and feels different than a normal tube no matter how much it's washed and wiped off.) On the fourth hand, there's the question of pressure. The tubes that I euthanized endured no more oil pressure than the depth of the oil, which wasn't much--an inch in the case of the small section, and about 5 inches in the case of the tube folded up and stuffed into an oil-filled plastic jar. Oil on an already-inflated real tube would have no pressure if it dripped down the valve stem, but the oil would be at around 100 psi if it got onto the tube from the spokes and rim tape before inflation. The children who raft down the nearby Arkansas River on large inner tubes would be wise to reject tubes with oil stains. I like to think that my bicycling standards are at least as high. Carl Fogel |
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Tube Soake In Oil Results
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#10
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Tube Soake In Oil Results
jim beam writes:
bottom line, if you do oil spoke nipples, you run the risk of having that oil seep through to the tube and the tube can rupture. Why would someone oil spoke nipples rather than grease spoke nipples ?? It seems to me that you don't want the lubrication to be gone in a few days or after a few rides, so that you can retrue a wheel a few weeks or months later, and that grease ( which is oil plus soap ) is the only way to achieve this happy state. I think that with a suitable rim strip - such as velox - grease would have a hard time getting to the inner tube area. - Don Gillies San Diego, CA |
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