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Can you make it to the market on a bike?



 
 
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  #11  
Old July 23rd 07, 01:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,alt.planning.urban
donquijote1954
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Posts: 2,851
Default Can you make it to the market on a bike?

On Jul 23, 12:25 am, wrote:

I'm car-free, and I can haul a LOT of groceries with my cargo trike:

http://drumbent.com/trike.html

Also, since it's big and takes up a whole lane I don't get hassled at
all in terms of asserting my right to be on the road (having lights
and turn signals helps).

And not only can I get groceries with it, I just moved house with it
too:

http://drumbent.blogspot.com/2007/07...ng-photos.html


Congratulations, Mark. That's the way too go. Actually I think it
takes more courage to do what you do than to fight in Iraq. And at
least you do it for a good cause.

But around here I'd have to engage in many hand-to-hand combats with
enraged drivers.

Ads
  #12  
Old July 23rd 07, 01:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,alt.planning.urban
donquijote1954
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Posts: 2,851
Default It's the speed differential

On Jul 23, 12:28 am, Jens Müller wrote:
donquijote1954 wrote:
Regrettably, my happiness ends at this point as going any further
places me right on major roads, where the major predators rule. And
that's a jungle that makes me nervous. Great places are within biking
distance, up to 15 miles, along parks, beaches and scenic places, but
NO BIKE LANES are provided, and I just play it safe.


Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
do you think the carriageway isn't safe?


Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...

Why is speed differential important?
A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly. Rear-end
collisions are very common on roads and streets with large driveway
speed differentials and a high density of commercial driveways. When
the speed differential is high, it is also more likely that crashes
will be more severe, cause greater property damage, and result in more
injuries and fatalities.

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache...nk&cd=10&gl=us

  #13  
Old July 23rd 07, 01:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,alt.planning.urban
donquijote1954
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Posts: 2,851
Default Can you make it to the market on a bike?

On Jul 23, 3:07 am, Jens Müller wrote:
Edward Dolan wrote:

Always use the bike paths whenever you can. They are much more pleasant than
using the mean streets where you have to compete with motorized vehicles.


Always avoid bike paths when it is legally possible. It is much safer
that way.


Facing the mean streets is much safer. Just raise a white flag and
play dead!

  #14  
Old July 23rd 07, 05:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,alt.planning.urban
Jens Müller
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Posts: 42
Default It's the speed differential

donquijote1954 wrote:

Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
do you think the carriageway isn't safe?


Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...

Why is speed differential important?
A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly.


At that speed, you don't have turning vehicles, only vehicles changing
lanes.

Rear-end
collisions are very common on roads


In the US? Don't know about that. Here in Germany they occur mostly at
the end of traffic jams.

  #15  
Old July 23rd 07, 05:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,alt.planning.urban
donquijote1954
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Posts: 2,851
Default It's the speed differential

On Jul 23, 12:29 pm, Jens Müller wrote:
donquijote1954 wrote:
Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
do you think the carriageway isn't safe?


Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...


Why is speed differential important?
A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly.


At that speed, you don't have turning vehicles, only vehicles changing
lanes.


You are going 12mph on the bike, and a car is coming behind you at
50mph. Would that be safe?

  #16  
Old July 23rd 07, 06:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling,alt.planning.urban
Martin Dann
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Posts: 907
Default It's the speed differential

donquijote1954 wrote:
On Jul 23, 12:29 pm, Jens Müller wrote:
donquijote1954 wrote:
Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
do you think the carriageway isn't safe?
Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...
Why is speed differential important?
A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly.

At that speed, you don't have turning vehicles, only vehicles changing
lanes.


You are going 12mph on the bike, and a car is coming behind you at
50mph. Would that be safe?


It is as safe as the person driving the car, and the way
they overtake you. If the driver is unsafe overtaking a
12mph bike, then that driver will also be unsafe in a lot
of other places, and should not be driving.

Remember that car drivers should be able to stop in the
distance that they can see.


  #17  
Old July 23rd 07, 06:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,alt.planning.urban
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,673
Default It's the speed differential

On Jul 23, 5:50 am, donquijote1954
wrote:
On Jul 23, 12:28 am, Jens Müller wrote:

donquijote1954 wrote:
Regrettably, my happiness ends at this point as going any further
places me right on major roads, where the major predators rule. And
that's a jungle that makes me nervous. Great places are within biking
distance, up to 15 miles, along parks, beaches and scenic places, but
NO BIKE LANES are provided, and I just play it safe.


Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
do you think the carriageway isn't safe?


Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...


Bike lanes don't change the speed differential!

Bike lanes also don't add any pavement width. The only thing they add
is a white stripe - and more trash at the right hand (in the US) side
of the roadway, because cars no longer sweep it clean. Oh, and they
add dangerous complication at intersections.

Generally, if there's enough width for a MV lane and a bike lane,
there's enough width to safely share without a white stripe.

As to the original post: IME, it's not uncommon for people to think
"I can't get there by bike," when they've simply not explored
alternative routes well enough.

When I've moved to a new area or spent extensive time visiting a new
area, I've always gotten a detailed street map. Often, I'll tape it
to the wall. That allows me to see alternative routes I might
otherwise miss.

If you're afraid of the busy arterials, you could mark them red. Then
look for alternative parallel routes on smaller streets. Mark those
green, if you like. Also, find out what the local 14-year-olds use
for shortcuts. Those kids explore everything, like ants. They know
about the secret little dirt path that connects the park to the
parking lot, etc.

Admittedly, the modern fashion of transforming corn fields into
isolated cul-de-sac developments makes this difficult in many areas.
But older areas of town can often be peacefully accessed, once you
stop thinking like a car driver.

- Frank Krygowski

  #18  
Old July 23rd 07, 07:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling,alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent,alt.planning.urban
Edward Dolan
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Posts: 14,212
Default Can you make it to the market on a bike?


"archierob" wrote in message
...
Well done!

One only has to read Bill Bryson's book 'Notes from a Big Country' to
realise just how pervasive the automobile is in America. Trying to get
anywhere other than by car is difficult - even crossing over the road
from his hotel to a diner. The one anecdote that made me howl with
laughter was when he returned to the US for a while and invited his
neighbours to dinner -they came by car! They drove down their drive,
turned left and then drove up his drive.


The thing that amazes me the most is that in small town America everyone
drives everywhere, even if it is only a few blocks. No wonder we are all
turning into fat slobs.

I will NEVER drive my car in town. I use it strictly for going to other
towns in the vicinity. You can go anywhere in this town of Worthington,
Minnesota (12,000 pop.) in 15 minutes by bicycle at the most. Why the hell
would anyone except an idiot want to drive these very small distances. And
yet, EVERYONE does!
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


  #19  
Old July 23rd 07, 07:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.soc
Jens Müller
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Posts: 42
Default Can you make it to the market on a bike?

Edward Dolan wrote:

I will NEVER drive my car in town. I use it strictly for going to other
towns in the vicinity. You can go anywhere in this town of Worthington,
Minnesota (12,000 pop.) in 15 minutes by bicycle at the most. Why the hell
would anyone except an idiot want to drive these very small distances. And
yet, EVERYONE does!
[...]


And that probably is when you are what in German is called (ok, only by
some cycling activists) a "Torkelradler" - someone who's driving so slow
he can't drive in a nearly straight line.
  #20  
Old July 23rd 07, 08:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc,uk.rec.cycling,alt.planning.urban
donquijote1954
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,851
Default It's the speed differential

On Jul 23, 1:04 pm, Martin Dann wrote:
donquijote1954 wrote:
On Jul 23, 12:29 pm, Jens Müller wrote:
donquijote1954 wrote:
Why do you think that bike lanes are safer than the carriageway? And why
do you think the carriageway isn't safe?
Because the SPEED DIFFERENTIAL is too great...
Why is speed differential important?
A speed differential above 20 miles per hour begins to present safety
concerns. When the speed differential approaches 30 to 35 miles per
hour, the likelihood of a collision between fast-moving through
vehicles and turning vehicles increases very quickly.
At that speed, you don't have turning vehicles, only vehicles changing
lanes.


You are going 12mph on the bike, and a car is coming behind you at
50mph. Would that be safe?


It is as safe as the person driving the car, and the way
they overtake you. If the driver is unsafe overtaking a
12mph bike, then that driver will also be unsafe in a lot
of other places, and should not be driving.

Remember that car drivers should be able to stop in the
distance that they can see.-


That's the problem here, many people shouldn't be driving.

It should be the opposite: EVERYBODY SHOULD RIDE A BIKE and not a car.

 




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