A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Social Issues
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old June 14th 11, 03:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
lee.watkins
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

The basis of this mentality is authoritarianism, which is now the
predominant right-wing conservative
perspective in the USA, particularly Christian Conservatism. Violence
directed towards perceived
lower tiers without conscience, combined with a kiss-up attitude
towards authority figures.

The driver assumes anyone else would do the same thing given the
opportunity. The perception is
magnified by the metaphor that the car did the violence on the
drivers' behalf (absolution),
and the cyclists' lack of official operators credentials.

The language used in newspaper articles and local broadcast TV/radio
to describe automobile crashes is intended to reinforce the
absolution, in part because automobile manufactures/retailers are the
primary (and sometimes only) advertising revenue source.
The lack of enforcement of harsh fines or jail time for this behavior
removes any doubt that this behavior is sanctioned. This is driven by
conservative politics.
the lack of cyclist licensing and registration/plates credentials
informs an authoritarian that the cyclist does not belong
on the road and thus should be punished for getting in the way, or
even just for fun.

I think the best way to counter all this is to make cycling more
Authoritarian friendly. An vigorous licensing and registration
bureaucracy. Drum up patriotic and religious associations with the
bicycle. The flag, cross, and bible imagery! Build segregated
bikeways like in Europe, protected with bollards and make it downright
christian and patriotic.

Logically Christian conservatives have every supposed moral, ethical,
and principled reason to be all about bikes, but modern conservatives
have no conscience. They really don't - at least not since
Goldwater! You have to give them increasingly authoritarian
reasons. and that can be done and will work like a charm.

On Jun 12, 5:01*pm, Tșm ShermȘn °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
Police report:

"THE CYCLIST WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 NEAR THE TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION.
* V1 WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 APPROACHING THE CYCLIST FROM THE REAR. *THE
FRONT OF V1 COLLIDED WITH THE REAR OF THE BICYCLE. *THE IMPACT THREW THE
CYCLIST INTO THE AIR BEFORE LANDING ON THE HOOD OF V1 AND ONTO THE
WINDSHIELD. *V1 CONTINUED FOR A FEW FEET BEFORE COMING TO A STOP. *THE
CYCLIST WAS THEN THROWN TO THE ASPHALT WHEN V1 STOPPED. *THE DRIVER OF
V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE TALKING ON THE
PHONE. *D1 THEN REENTERED HER VEHICLE AND RAN THE CYCLIST OVER AGAIN
BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES. *V1 CAME TO FINAL
REST FACING WEST IN THE WEST BOUND LANE ON MS 50 JUST METERS WEST OF THE
TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION. *THE CYCLIST CAME TO FINAL REST NEAR THE
RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF V1."

See
http://www.accidentin.com/article3079581/friends_family_of_accident_v....

Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit mayhem
with her vehicle?

http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919

--
Tșm ShermȘn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.


Ads
  #12  
Old June 14th 11, 08:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Frank Krygowski[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,511
Default Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

On Jun 14, 3:16*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:

NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use
a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. *End of story.


Absolutely.

Freedom of association and freedom to travel are rights. But even
they can be revoked (via imprisonment) when a person is convicted of a
crime.

Freedom to operate a motor vehicle is a privilege. There should be a
much lower standard for its revocation.


If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident"
they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.


Correct. The current "I might scratch my paint job" would be replaced
by "I might never drive again." It would make a huge - and
appropriate - difference.

- Frank Krygowski
  #13  
Old June 14th 11, 11:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,153
Default Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jun 14, 3:16 pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use
a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story.


Absolutely.

Freedom of association and freedom to travel are rights. But even
they can be revoked (via imprisonment) when a person is convicted of a
crime.

Freedom to operate a motor vehicle is a privilege. There should be a
much lower standard for its revocation.

If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident"
they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.


Correct. The current "I might scratch my paint job" would be replaced
by "I might never drive again." It would make a huge - and
appropriate - difference.


While I agree with harsher penalties for those who have clearly shown
they lack the necessary mental attitude to drive safely, as far as I can
recall, every single motor vehicle crash story I have heard reported
here, has the *vehicle* doing something wrong.

"A 16 YEAR-OLD girl was in the driver's seat in a horrific crash that
killed two men and left two other passengers critically injured in
north-west Victoria this weekend.

The girl, who is also in a serious condition, was travelling with four
male friends to to a ''psytrance'' dance party in the Pyrenees Ranges,
when the vehicle smashed through a barrier and lodged in a tree. The
force of the crash left the car hanging nearly two metres off the ground.

The car, a Land Rover Discovery four-wheel-drive, was towing a trailer
loaded with camping equipment when it crashed at Burrumbeet, about 20
kilometres west of Ballarat.

It was unclear if the girl, from St Kilda, was a learner driver, who are
banned from towing caravans or trailers.

Ballarat traffic branch Acting Sergeant Travis Johnson confirmed a girl,
the only female in the car, was at the wheel of the car. ''I don't know
if she was a learner,'' he said.
"

Read mo
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tw...611-1fya3.html

Bad, bad vehicle. How dare it smash through a barrier and lodge in a tree.

Also note that "The car ... was towing a trailer ... when it crashed ..."

Why wasn't it reported that a learner driver, illegally drove a 4WD
towing a trailer, across to the wrong side of the road, through a
barrier, and into a tree?

I can sort of see what lee.watkins is on about, not that it is right.

--
JS.
  #14  
Old June 14th 11, 11:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

James wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jun 14, 3:16 pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use
a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story.


Absolutely.

Freedom of association and freedom to travel are rights. But even
they can be revoked (via imprisonment) when a person is convicted of a
crime.

Freedom to operate a motor vehicle is a privilege. There should be a
much lower standard for its revocation.

If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident"
they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.


Correct. The current "I might scratch my paint job" would be replaced
by "I might never drive again." It would make a huge - and
appropriate - difference.


While I agree with harsher penalties for those who have clearly shown
they lack the necessary mental attitude to drive safely, as far as I can
recall, every single motor vehicle crash story I have heard reported
here, has the *vehicle* doing something wrong.

"A 16 YEAR-OLD girl was in the driver's seat in a horrific crash that
killed two men and left two other passengers critically injured in
north-west Victoria this weekend.

The girl, who is also in a serious condition, was travelling with four
male friends to to a ''psytrance'' dance party in the Pyrenees Ranges,
when the vehicle smashed through a barrier and lodged in a tree. The
force of the crash left the car hanging nearly two metres off the ground.

The car, a Land Rover Discovery four-wheel-drive, was towing a trailer
loaded with camping equipment when it crashed at Burrumbeet, about 20
kilometres west of Ballarat.

It was unclear if the girl, from St Kilda, was a learner driver, who are
banned from towing caravans or trailers.

Ballarat traffic branch Acting Sergeant Travis Johnson confirmed a girl,
the only female in the car, was at the wheel of the car. ''I don't know
if she was a learner,'' he said.
"

Read mo
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tw...611-1fya3.html


Bad, bad vehicle. How dare it smash through a barrier and lodge in a tree.

Also note that "The car ... was towing a trailer ... when it crashed ..."

Why wasn't it reported that a learner driver, illegally drove a 4WD
towing a trailer, across to the wrong side of the road, through a
barrier, and into a tree?

I can sort of see what lee.watkins is on about, not that it is right.




Car crashes have numerous otherworldly causes. Bad Tree
jumps out at drunk driver, Evil Car leaves pavement, The
Lure of Texting, Meddlesome GPS Alert, etc.

Sometimes it's caused by a sighting of The Other Woman:
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/...reat-continues

http://preview.tinyurl.com/6db4jsd

Too bad nothing can be done about any of those things.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
  #15  
Old June 15th 11, 12:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
kolldata
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,836
Default Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

yeah I agree, lettus execute all irresponsible drivers....
  #16  
Old June 15th 11, 01:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
James[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,153
Default Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

AMuzi wrote:

Car crashes have numerous otherworldly causes. Bad Tree jumps out at
drunk driver, Evil Car leaves pavement, The Lure of Texting, Meddlesome
GPS Alert, etc.

Sometimes it's caused by a sighting of The Other Woman:
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/06/...reat-continues


http://preview.tinyurl.com/6db4jsd

Too bad nothing can be done about any of those things.


It is very difficult to prevent these things happening the first time, I
agree. It is easy to prevent repeat offenses.

--
JS.
  #17  
Old June 15th 11, 01:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
TÂșm ShermÂȘn °_°
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 413
Default Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

On 6/14/2011 5:10 PM, James wrote:
[...]
"A 16 YEAR-OLD girl was in the driver's seat in a horrific crash that
killed two men and left two other passengers critically injured in
north-west Victoria this weekend.

The girl, who is also in a serious condition, was travelling with four
male friends to to a ''psytrance'' dance party in the Pyrenees Ranges,
when the vehicle smashed through a barrier and lodged in a tree. The
force of the crash left the car hanging nearly two metres off the ground.

The car, a Land Rover Discovery four-wheel-drive, was towing a trailer
loaded with camping equipment when it crashed at Burrumbeet, about 20
kilometres west of Ballarat.[...]


If she is similar to most 16-year old girls, she has no idea that towing
should *not* be considered routine driving.

--
TÂșm ShermÂȘn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
  #18  
Old June 15th 11, 03:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Dan O
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,098
Default Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

On Jun 14, 12:16*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:

snip

What we need are proper penalties for abuse of the privilege of motor
vehicle use.
Heavy fines for the responsible party in any collision - and if they
can't decide which party that was, the fine should be split between
them, not ignored. *The full cost of the clear up and medical
treatment necessary should be charged to their insurance.
Any injury should result in imprisonment, the duration depending on
the severity - why should the perpetrator recover any more quickly
than their victim? *Permanent disablement or death should equal life
imprisonment.
NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use
a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. *End of story.


Okay, but "any doubt" in *whose* mind?

I repeat, the vagaries of human nature in all its splendor abound at
the controls of traffic. (Whjee)

If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident"
they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.


Absolutely right! It's about time.

snip
  #19  
Old June 15th 11, 08:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Jay Beattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,322
Default Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

On Jun 15, 10:11*am, Phil W Lee wrote:
Dan O considered Wed, 15 Jun 2011 07:15:40
-0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:





On Jun 14, 12:16*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:


snip


What we need are proper penalties for abuse of the privilege of motor
vehicle use.
Heavy fines for the responsible party in any collision - and if they
can't decide which party that was, the fine should be split between
them, not ignored. *The full cost of the clear up and medical
treatment necessary should be charged to their insurance.
Any injury should result in imprisonment, the duration depending on
the severity - why should the perpetrator recover any more quickly
than their victim? *Permanent disablement or death should equal life
imprisonment.
NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use
a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. *End of story.


Okay, but "any doubt" in *whose* *mind?


Any contact with another vehicle, object or person that can't be
entirely attributed to another party.

I repeat, the vagaries of human nature in all its splendor abound at
the controls of traffic. *(Whjee)


If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident"
they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.


Absolutely right! *It's about time.


If licence suspensions and/or revocations were used more often, people
would get used to the idea of alternatives to driving, and it would be
economically viable to provide those alternatives.


No, they would get used to driving without a license -- and without
insurance.

The accident described in the original post involved an aparent
psychopathic driver. Most non-psychopathic drivers want to avoid
accidents and do not need further incentive -- e.g., the threat of
license suspension or revocation for an "accident." Psychopaths don't
care and are probably driving without a license anyway.

The people who do the most damage are rarely those who respond to
bland punishments.

-- Jay Beattie.

  #20  
Old June 15th 11, 08:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.soc
Ronko
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 313
Default Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

In article , [email protected]
family.me.uk says...


"lee.watkins" considered Tue, 14 Jun 2011
07:31:26 -0700 (PDT) the perfect time to write:

The basis of this mentality is authoritarianism, which is now the
predominant right-wing conservative
perspective in the USA, particularly Christian Conservatism. Violence
directed towards perceived
lower tiers without conscience, combined with a kiss-up attitude
towards authority figures.

The driver assumes anyone else would do the same thing given the
opportunity. The perception is
magnified by the metaphor that the car did the violence on the
drivers' behalf (absolution),
and the cyclists' lack of official operators credentials.

The language used in newspaper articles and local broadcast TV/radio
to describe automobile crashes is intended to reinforce the
absolution, in part because automobile manufactures/retailers are the
primary (and sometimes only) advertising revenue source.
The lack of enforcement of harsh fines or jail time for this behavior
removes any doubt that this behavior is sanctioned. This is driven by
conservative politics.
the lack of cyclist licensing and registration/plates credentials
informs an authoritarian that the cyclist does not belong
on the road and thus should be punished for getting in the way, or
even just for fun.

I think the best way to counter all this is to make cycling more
Authoritarian friendly. An vigorous licensing and registration
bureaucracy. Drum up patriotic and religious associations with the
bicycle. The flag, cross, and bible imagery! Build segregated
bikeways like in Europe, protected with bollards and make it downright
christian and patriotic.


What utter cobblers.
What we need are proper penalties for abuse of the privilege of motor
vehicle use.
Heavy fines for the responsible party in any collision - and if they
can't decide which party that was, the fine should be split between
them, not ignored. The full cost of the clear up and medical
treatment necessary should be charged to their insurance.
Any injury should result in imprisonment, the duration depending on
the severity - why should the perpetrator recover any more quickly
than their victim? Permanent disablement or death should equal life
imprisonment.
NOBODY who has caused any doubt to be raised over their ability to use
a motor vehicle safely should be allowed further use. End of story.

If people knew that these were the consequences of an "accident"
they'd take the necessary care to avoid them.

Logically Christian conservatives have every supposed moral, ethical,
and principled reason to be all about bikes, but modern conservatives
have no conscience. They really don't - at least not since
Goldwater! You have to give them increasingly authoritarian
reasons. and that can be done and will work like a charm.

On Jun 12, 5:01Â*pm, TÂșm ShermÂȘn °_°

""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
Police report:

"THE CYCLIST WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 NEAR THE TRULOVE LOOP

INTERSECTION.
Â* V1 WAS WEST BOUND ON MS50 APPROACHING THE CYCLIST FROM

THE REAR. Â*THE
FRONT OF V1 COLLIDED WITH THE REAR OF THE BICYCLE. Â*THE

IMPACT THREW THE
CYCLIST INTO THE AIR BEFORE LANDING ON THE HOOD OF V1 AND

ONTO THE
WINDSHIELD. Â*V1 CONTINUED FOR A FEW FEET BEFORE COMING TO

A STOP. Â*THE
CYCLIST WAS THEN THROWN TO THE ASPHALT WHEN V1 STOPPED.

Â*THE DRIVER OF
V1 EXITED THE VEHICLE AND OBSERVED THE CYCLIST WHILE

TALKING ON THE
PHONE. Â*D1 THEN REENTERED HER VEHICLE AND RAN THE CYCLIST

OVER AGAIN
BEFORE BEING FORCED FROM HER VEHICLE BY WITNESSES. Â*V1

CAME TO FINAL
REST FACING WEST IN THE WEST BOUND LANE ON MS 50 JUST

METERS WEST OF THE
TRULOVE LOOP INTERSECTION. Â*THE CYCLIST CAME TO FINAL REST

NEAR THE
RIGHT FRONT TIRE OF V1."

See

http://www.accidentin.com/article307..._of_accident_v...
.

Why is Robbie Norton, 44, of Cedar Bluff, MS still free to commit

mayhem
with her vehicle?

http://www.starkvilledailynews.com/node/5919

--
TÂșm ShermÂȘn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

3500 pound car protecting the motorist vs cyclist with no metal around
him/her means the car wins every time. Unfortuneatly that's the nature of
the beast and drivers, if cited at all, are only cited for driving erratically or
not staying in the lane or some other only citable offense. The cyclist is left
with serious or fatal injuries and if fortuneate enough to get hit by a driver
with adequate resources or insurance, can gain some financial recourse in
civil court.

However, this case of the driver hitting the cyclist a second time is an
entirely different matter. If intent of the driver's part can be shown, this
probably warrants assault with a deadly weapon or attempted
manslaughter/murder type of charge. I would like to see that. Local politics
and attitude toward bicyclists usually plays a critical part in how the
offender is charged, if at all.

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Murder charge after cycle crash Tom Crispin UK 1 April 1st 10 09:28 PM
lauren fickett 925-933-6979 is guilty of tax fraud, attempted carjacking, kidnapping, murder and is guilty of assault and battery 903Dartmouth Way Concord, CA 5884 w tucson estates pkwy tucson, az 520-883-7486 [email protected] Unicycling 1 October 5th 08 01:09 PM
Murder Charge for Killing Cyclist mmcgr General 23 October 6th 04 04:37 AM
Is this an attempted fraud? Tumbleweed UK 9 August 9th 04 09:01 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2022 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.