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Ontario Helmet Law being pushed through



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 5th 04, 10:23 PM
Peter Storey
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Chris B. quoted someone thusly
in message . ..

"That includes N.D.P. MPP Michael Prue, who lost his brother to a bike
accident in 1998. ?There isn't a day goes by that I don't see someone
on the streets of Toronto, an adult, with no helmet on their head, and
I want to get out of my car or off the sidewalk and I want to grab
them and I want to shake them,? he reflects. ?I want to tell them that
this was an absolutely wrong thing, a bad thing to happen."


Oh dear! Shaking them? MPP Prue really should read up on rotational
injuries that are not prevented --- and may be exacerbated -- by
wearing a helmet.

Peter Storey
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  #23  
Old November 6th 04, 12:01 AM
Mitch Haley
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Benjamin Lewis wrote:

To go even further, the mere existence of a law purported to be for
"safety" purposes, even if it is *guaranteed* to be unenforced, can
potentially be a deterrent, since it spreads the idea, sometimes
unconsciously, that the activity is dangerous.


Not to mention spreading the silly idea that the government is your parent.
  #24  
Old November 6th 04, 02:09 AM
Bill Z.
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Dragan Cvetkovic writes:

Chris Phillipo writes:

In article , [email protected]
spam-thanks-rogers.com says...

I wonder why. Are you aware that mandatory helmet laws implemented in
Alberta, Nova Scotia, New Zealand and parts of Australia have not only
not shown benefits but have actually had negative effects (decreased
numbers of cyclists in all cases and sometimes an increase in the rate
of head injury after the law is enacted)?


Ho hum, that would be a neat trick considering the helmet laws are not
even enforced outside of Halifax in Nova Scotia. Which makes me think
the rest of these "statitics" are in quesiton.


Are you saying that people should obey the law only if it is actually and
actively enforced?



He's saying what I have said for years on this topic: that laws that
are not obeyed or enforced have zero impact on human behavior. People
are not going to stop cycling because of a helmet law that is neither
obeyed nor enforced.

Bill

--
My real name backwards: nemuaZ lliB
  #25  
Old November 6th 04, 02:25 AM
Frank Krygowski
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Chris B. wrote:



Frank, why did you remove the cross post? It is very much on topic
for ont.bicycle.


Because my system won't let me post there. When I try, the entire post
hangs. I agree it's very much on topic there. Feel free to copy.


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  #26  
Old November 6th 04, 02:28 AM
Frank Krygowski
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Chris Phillipo wrote:



That had nothing to do with the point of my post but I'm sure that this
bill, like almost all others, has no provision in it for extra law
enforment spending.


Which means, of course, that any time the cops give to enforcing it is
time taken away from real productive activity.


--
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Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  #27  
Old November 6th 04, 02:33 AM
Frank Krygowski
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Ken [NY) wrote:


To the fellow who was thinking about fleeing to Canada from
the horrors of Bush's low tax rates, you might want to think about
this proposed law.


But then, there's the opportunity to get free of Neanderthal right
wingers and their simplistic "thinking." The choice isn't easy!

Ah well. We're off topic, aren't we?


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

  #28  
Old November 6th 04, 04:48 AM
Chris B.
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On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:25:14 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Chris B. wrote:



Frank, why did you remove the cross post? It is very much on topic
for ont.bicycle.


Because my system won't let me post there. When I try, the entire post
hangs. I agree it's very much on topic there. Feel free to copy.


I hadn't even considered that, sorry.

I must say, I'm not usually so provincial.
--

"Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its
victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under
robber-barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber-
baron's cruelty may at some point be satiated; but those who
torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they
do so with the approval of their own conscience."

- C.S. Lewis
  #29  
Old November 6th 04, 05:05 AM
Bill Z.
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Chris B. writes:

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:25:14 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Chris B. wrote:



Frank, why did you remove the cross post? It is very much on topic
for ont.bicycle.


Because my system won't let me post there. When I try, the entire post
hangs. I agree it's very much on topic there. Feel free to copy.


I hadn't even considered that, sorry.


Krygoswki's claim doesn't make much sense - normally you get an
error if you can't post and the newsreader just reports it. If
he really can't post, then he should first try a different newsreader
to rule out a bug in the version of Mozilla he uses (5.0) and
then report the problem to his employer (he seems to be posting
from work.)
  #30  
Old November 6th 04, 02:21 PM
Maggie
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My kids are grown, but they _certainly_ did a lot of riding without bike
helmets. In fact, I assume _all_ of us did. A parent is allowed to

let his kid climb a tree without a helmet. He's allowed to let his
kid play pickup baseball without a helmet. He's allowed to let his
kid ride his pony without a helmet. In each of these, and many other
situations, the choice is reasonably left up to the parent. What in
the world is so dangerous about cycling that justifies overpowering
parental judgement?


This makes sense to me. There were certainly no helmet laws when I was
a child and there were none for my children. I sometimes wonder how I
survived childhood and also how my children survived. I rode in the
back of my fathers pickup truck with my brother all through my
childhood. If you put your kid in the back of a pick up in the NY/NJ
area today, you would be arrested for child abuse or neglect. We
didn't have car seats, seat belts, helmets, and our cribs had slats we
could stick our heads through,and wooden high chairs we could climb
out of very easily. HOW DID WE SURVIVE??? When I had my first child
there were no still no car seat laws. Some of my greatest memories of
childhood were building cars out of wood crates and roller skate
wheels and flying down the steepest hills we could find with no
brakes. How the heck did we survive? My brother and I still laugh
about those days. We fell out of our treehouse when it collapsed and
survived and in the process learned to build a better tree house. To
ride our bikes, we just hopped on and rode. We never went to a LBS for
anything. If the bike broke we found a way to put it back together.
When the chain fell off we stopped and fixed it until it fell off
again. When the brakes broke we used our feet. It is funny to think
about that is this age of hi tech and safety laws. I must admit I had
a few black eyes and battle scars from hanging around with an older
brother but.... Maybe there are just too many laws protecting our
safety now. I would not trade those old stories of childhood for
anything. Even with the black eyes. When do laws become a hindrence
rather than a help?
Peace and stuff
http://hometown.aol.com/lbuset/
 




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