Wheel Build

Hi I'm going to build some new wheels for my bike.
I'm getting Velocity A23 rims and I have Dura-Ace 7900 hubs but my
question is what spokes do I use
Looking at maybe DT Swiss 13/15g DB champion or is there a better DB
steel spoke not into BLACK spokes

Chris Taylor wrote:

Hi I'm going to build some new wheels for my bike.
I'm getting Velocity A23 rims and I have Dura-Ace 7900 hubs but my
question is what spokes do I use
Looking at maybe DT Swiss 13/15g DB champion

DT Chmpion are straight gauge spokes. DT Competition are available in
14/15ga (2.0/1.8mm) and 15/16ga (1.8/1.6mm).

or is there a better DB steel spoke not into BLACK spokes

In terms of quality, there is no better spoke than DT Competition,
though Sapim Race spokes are of functionally equal quality.

It's a good idea to use 14/15ga on the right side of the rear wheel,
where tension is high and elastic stiffness is important, and a
lighter gauge on the left side rear, for more elastic range at the
requisite lower tension. This can be a 14/17ga or 15/17ga spoke like
DT Revolution or Sapim Laser.

Chalo

On May 5, 4:08*am, Chalo wrote:
Chris Taylor wrote:

Hi I'm going to build some new wheels for my bike.
I'm getting Velocity A23 rims and I have Dura-Ace 7900 hubs but my
question is what spokes do I use
Looking at maybe DT Swiss 13/15g DB champion

DT Chmpion are straight gauge spokes. *DT Competition are available in
14/15ga (2.0/1.8mm) and 15/16ga (1.8/1.6mm).

or is there a better DB steel spoke not into BLACK spokes

In terms of quality, there is no better spoke than DT Competition,
though Sapim Race spokes are of functionally equal quality.

It's a good idea to use 14/15ga on the right side of the rear wheel,
where tension is high and elastic stiffness is important, and a
lighter gauge on the left side rear, for more elastic range at the
requisite lower tension. *This can be a 14/17ga or 15/17ga spoke like
DT Revolution or Sapim Laser.

I see the A23 is right about the same weight as the Aerohead. Hmm, the
A23 is a few mm's wider... meaning the A23 is stretched a little
thinner?

The Aerohead is available in a non-symmetrical OC version for rear
wheels. I've had a few of those, built on Campy hubs (which require a
little more "dish" than Shimano hubs from what I read), which have
been reliable (one exception) and have stayed true in use, at rider
weight well over 200 lbs.
The one exception was a "machined sidewall" rim which seemed obviously
to have been "over-machined", to the point where the sidewall failed
after only about a year of use.

IOW, get the non-machined sidewall version g!

My Aerohead front rims have been bashed a time or three (the eyesight
not being up to the standards of the good ol' days), and have survived
some pretty good hits, again at "not light" rider weight.

I haven't ridden an A23 rim so I don't know whether the claimed "ride"
benefits are real or not. But again, you have the same tire, spread a
little wider. It seems that would take away some rim protection based
on how tall the tire is and how hard you have to hit to defeat the
cushioning effect of tire/tube on impact with square edges and the
like.
--D-y

On May 5, 10:20*am, " wrote:
On May 5, 4:08*am, Chalo wrote:





Chris Taylor wrote:

Hi I'm going to build some new wheels for my bike.
I'm getting Velocity A23 rims and I have Dura-Ace 7900 hubs but my
question is what spokes do I use
Looking at maybe DT Swiss 13/15g DB champion

DT Chmpion are straight gauge spokes. *DT Competition are available in
14/15ga (2.0/1.8mm) and 15/16ga (1.8/1.6mm).

or is there a better DB steel spoke not into BLACK spokes

In terms of quality, there is no better spoke than DT Competition,
though Sapim Race spokes are of functionally equal quality.

It's a good idea to use 14/15ga on the right side of the rear wheel,
where tension is high and elastic stiffness is important, and a
lighter gauge on the left side rear, for more elastic range at the
requisite lower tension. *This can be a 14/17ga or 15/17ga spoke like
DT Revolution or Sapim Laser.

I see the A23 is right about the same weight as the Aerohead. Hmm, the
A23 is a few mm's wider... meaning the A23 is stretched a little
thinner?

The Aerohead is available in a non-symmetrical OC version for rear
wheels. I've had a few of those, built on Campy hubs (which require a
little more "dish" than Shimano hubs from what I read), which have
been reliable (one exception) and have stayed true in use, at rider
weight well over 200 lbs.
The one exception was a "machined sidewall" rim which seemed obviously
to have been "over-machined", to the point where the sidewall failed
after only about a year of use.

IOW, get the non-machined sidewall version g!

My Aerohead front rims have been bashed a time or three (the eyesight
not being up to the standards of the good ol' days), and have survived
some pretty good hits, again at "not light" rider weight.

I haven't ridden an A23 rim so I don't know whether the claimed "ride"
benefits are real or not. But again, you have the same tire, spread a
little wider. It seems that would take away some rim protection based
on how tall the tire is and how hard you have to hit to defeat the
cushioning effect of tire/tube on impact with square edges and the
like.
--D-y

Oh yeah, forgot: brass nipples. Far better than "alloy" in terms of
service life. Massively heavy, of course, but there you go!
--D-y

On May 5, 2:08*am, Chalo wrote:
Chris Taylor wrote:

Hi I'm going to build some new wheels for my bike.
I'm getting Velocity A23 rims and I have Dura-Ace 7900 hubs but my
question is what spokes do I use
Looking at maybe DT Swiss 13/15g DB champion

DT Chmpion are straight gauge spokes. *DT Competition are available in
14/15ga (2.0/1.8mm) and 15/16ga (1.8/1.6mm).

or is there a better DB steel spoke not into BLACK spokes

In terms of quality, there is no better spoke than DT Competition,
though Sapim Race spokes are of functionally equal quality.

It's a good idea to use 14/15ga on the right side of the rear wheel,
where tension is high and elastic stiffness is important, and a
lighter gauge on the left side rear, for more elastic range at the
requisite lower tension. *This can be a 14/17ga or 15/17ga spoke like
DT Revolution or Sapim Laser.

Excellent suggestions. There's also Wheelsmith 14/16 spokes that work
well. I agree with another that depending on your weight or riding
style, you may want to go with an offset rear rim, especially with
Campy rear hubs, to compensate for the dish. Great thing about a
custom wheelset is you can mix and match hubs, rims and spokes.
Further, and perhaps the best part, is if you break a spoke, it can,
or should be able, to be repaired at "anybikeshopusa!" Good Luck!

On May 5, 10:08*am, Chalo wrote:
Chris Taylor wrote:

Hi I'm going to build some new wheels for my bike.
I'm getting Velocity A23 rims and I have Dura-Ace 7900 hubs but my
question is what spokes do I use
Looking at maybe DT Swiss 13/15g DB champion

DT Chmpion are straight gauge spokes. *DT Competition are available in
14/15ga (2.0/1.8mm) and 15/16ga (1.8/1.6mm).

or is there a better DB steel spoke not into BLACK spokes

In terms of quality, there is no better spoke than DT Competition,
though Sapim Race spokes are of functionally equal quality.

Unfounded expense suited to lazy wheelbuilders.


It's a good idea to use 14/15ga on the right side of the rear wheel,

Hey that was my suggestion , but it really does depend on the rider,
his weight and how agressively he is going to use the wheel along with
the inherrrent stabilty of construction. I have a personal preference
for 15swg on the back . 16s are possible with a heavy and aggresive
rider but 17s are too delicate and could leave losing a few spokes due
to road debris. Enough to prevent further racing and possibly even
riding anything more than a couple of miles at a very slow pace.

where tension is high and elastic stiffness is important, and a
lighter gauge on the left side rear, for more elastic range at the
requisite lower tension. *This can be a 14/17ga or 15/17ga spoke like
DT Revolution or Sapim Laser.


17s are too thin unless it's a front wheel for a hill-climb. There is
no absolute need to use different gauge spokes over the rear wheel, a
well constructed wheel is possible despite hub to rim offset
differences.

On May 6, 4:54*pm, bfd wrote:
On May 5, 2:08*am, Chalo wrote:

Chris Taylor wrote:

Hi I'm going to build some new wheels for my bike.
I'm getting Velocity A23 rims and I have Dura-Ace 7900 hubs but my
question is what spokes do I use
Looking at maybe DT Swiss 13/15g DB champion

DT Chmpion are straight gauge spokes. *DT Competition are available in
14/15ga (2.0/1.8mm) and 15/16ga (1.8/1.6mm).

or is there a better DB steel spoke not into BLACK spokes

In terms of quality, there is no better spoke than DT Competition,
though Sapim Race spokes are of functionally equal quality.

It's a good idea to use 14/15ga on the right side of the rear wheel,
where tension is high and elastic stiffness is important, and a
lighter gauge on the left side rear, for more elastic range at the
requisite lower tension. *This can be a 14/17ga or 15/17ga spoke like
DT Revolution or Sapim Laser.

Excellent suggestions. There's also Wheelsmith 14/16 spokes that work
well. I agree with another that depending on your weight or riding
style, you may want to go with an offset rear rim, especially with
Campy rear hubs, to compensate for the dish. Great thing about a
custom wheelset is you can mix and match hubs, rims and spokes.


Further, and perhaps the best part, is if you break a spoke, it can,
or should be able, to be repaired at "anybikeshopusa!" Good Luck!

I doubt that to be a prime requirement.

thirty-six wrote:

Chalo wrote:

It's a good idea to use 14/15ga on the right side of the rear wheel,
where tension is high and elastic stiffness is important, and a
lighter gauge on the left side rear, for more elastic range at the
requisite lower tension. *This can be a 14/17ga or 15/17ga spoke like
DT Revolution or Sapim Laser.

17s are too thin unless it's a front wheel for a hill-climb. *There is
no absolute need to use different gauge spokes over the rear wheel, a
well constructed wheel is possible despite hub to rim offset
differences.

The chief advantage of a thin spoke is not its low weight, but its
increased elastic range at normal spoke tension. You may not be
familiar with this advantage, since you don't use normal spoke
tension. So you'll have to take my word for it.

There is no absolute need for different spoke gauges on the rear, but
it only makes sense that if the left side spokes have less than half
as much tension as the right, you can use much thinner spokes on the
left. A 1.5mm spoke center has 69% of the cross-sectional area of a
1.8mm spoke center-- but if it only carries 40% as much static tension
(as in a 9s or 10s road bike wheel), what's the harm in that? It's
not like windup is apt to be a problem at less than 50kgf tension, and
the practical benefit of a thinner spoke on the loose side of the
wheel is less spoke slackening and resultant unscrewing.

(Yes, we all know how much you adore spokes slackening under load.
But you're the only one who does.)

17ga spokes are not as good a match for the front wheel, when all the
spokes are expected to be tensioned to 100kgf or more (on quality
Earth bikes). If I were building a conventional but totally
uncompromising wheelset for minimum weight and maximum reliability,
I'd probably use 14/15ga on the right rear, 15/17ga on the left rear,
and 15/16ga on both sides in front. In practice, though, I usually
build with the same gauge of spokes on all four sides.

Chalo

On 5/7/2011 4:17 AM, Çhâlõ Çólîñã wrote:
[...]
(Yes, we all know how much you adore spokes slackening under load.
But you're the only one who does.)[...]

Maybe many people do on Trevor's home planet?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On May 7, 10:17*am, Chalo wrote:
thirty-six wrote:

Chalo wrote:

It's a good idea to use 14/15ga on the right side of the rear wheel,
where tension is high and elastic stiffness is important, and a
lighter gauge on the left side rear, for more elastic range at the
requisite lower tension. *This can be a 14/17ga or 15/17ga spoke like
DT Revolution or Sapim Laser.

17s are too thin unless it's a front wheel for a hill-climb. *There is
no absolute need to use different gauge spokes over the rear wheel, a
well constructed wheel is possible despite hub to rim offset
differences.

The chief advantage of a thin spoke is not its low weight, but its
increased elastic range at normal spoke tension. *You may not be
familiar with this advantage, since you don't use normal spoke
tension. *So you'll have to take my word for it.

Idiot.


There is no absolute need for different spoke gauges on the rear, but
it only makes sense that if the left side spokes have less than half
as much tension as the right, you can use much thinner spokes on the
left.

Which reduces lateral stability. The right side is already
compromised, so you wish to increase the chance of buckling with
spokes less able to maintain rim position. How have you become so
prone to this brainwashing?

*A 1.5mm spoke center has 69% of the cross-sectional area of a
1.8mm spoke center-- but if it only carries 40% as much static tension
(as in a 9s or 10s road bike wheel), what's the harm in that? *It's
not like windup is apt to be a problem at less than 50kgf tension, and
the practical benefit of a thinner spoke on the loose side of the
wheel is less spoke slackening and resultant unscrewing.

There's no problem, use a threadlock, it's valuable on front wheels as
well.


(Yes, we all know how much you adore spokes slackening under load.
But you're the only one who does.)

It occurs due to rim displacement. It is a desirable state of affairs
to prevent buckling, provide a comfortable ride and accurate tracking.


17ga spokes are not as good a match for the front wheel, when all the
spokes are expected to be tensioned to 100kgf or more (on quality

There is no such expectation in the developed mind, only the
brainwashed.
Spoke tension, with a given set of components, is what it is to give
the best ride characteristics for the rider and load. Maximise
comfort while retaining accurate tracking.

Earth bikes). *If I were building a conventional but totally
uncompromising wheelset for minimum weight and maximum reliability,
I'd probably use 14/15ga on the right rear, 15/17ga on the left rear,
and 15/16ga on both sides in front. *In practice, though, I usually
build with the same gauge of spokes on all four sides.

Become illiterate as well, four sides to a bicycle?
Playing with number wont make a great wheel, the wheel must be
balanced by the builder , which means you cannot expect the same spoke
tensions to work for different riders or parts. Just as a lightweight
rider should choose thinner chainstays, he should also choose thinner
rims and thinner (or fewer) spokes. As I have repeated time and time
again, I don't like thinner than 16swg because the wheel can be made
unusable by road debris which takes out a handful of spokes. Unless
presented with 14 or 17swg I suggest 15 or 16swg generally going by
height and intended use. I wont use 18swg.