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#21
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Loop detector detector?
On Sun, 17 Aug 2014 22:47:23 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 8/17/2014 8:12 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: I assume that these lights are in your local village. Is it not possible the get the local highway department to paint a location marker on the pavement to indicate where a bicycle would have to be to trigger the light? There are a couple sets of lights (the ones near the school) that are in my village. There are others that are in a neighboring township. And there are probably many more in our metro area. In my village, I've volunteered to do the painting myself. I can cut the stencil. I've discussed this with the village council president before, and will discuss it again. But in general, someone needs to know where the sweet spot is, before that spot can be marked. In some cases, I do know. In other cases, I think nobody knows. Hence the desirability of a detector. Incidentally, I'm considering whether it would be a good project for our bike club to just bypass the red tape and do the marking ourselves. That strategy has advantages and disadvantages, of course. Whoever installs the things must/should have some data on the coils, how deep they can be buried, how top test them, etc. Logically the town/county/state highway department. Once you can find that info I'd think some sort of a deal could be structured... "give us the paint and we'll paint the signs", might be a good way to start. There are probably laws/regulations about what kind of signs and what color one can paint on the streets. -- Cheers, John B. |
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#22
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Loop detector detector?
On Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:47:23 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/17/2014 8:12 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: I assume that these lights are in your local village. Is it not possible the get the local highway department to paint a location marker on the pavement to indicate where a bicycle would have to be to trigger the light? There are a couple sets of lights (the ones near the school) that are in my village. There are others that are in a neighboring township. And there are probably many more in our metro area. In my village, I've volunteered to do the painting myself. I can cut the stencil. I've discussed this with the village council president before, and will discuss it again. But in general, someone needs to know where the sweet spot is, before that spot can be marked. In some cases, I do know. In other cases, I think nobody knows. Hence the desirability of a detector. Incidentally, I'm considering whether it would be a good project for our bike club to just bypass the red tape and do the marking ourselves. That strategy has advantages and disadvantages, of course. There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know. -- Jay Beattie. |
#23
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Loop detector detector?
On 8/18/2014 7:28 AM, jbeattie wrote:
There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know. I'd say that about 3/4 of the loops in my area work. But one thing I found is that they work for some bicycles and not for others. I was at one loop that my wife insisted never worked--she always went over and pushed the button for the pedestrian crossing light. But it worked fine for me. Since I'm working extensively these days on inductive sensors, and how inductance changes based on the type of metal, it was pretty clear what the problem was. Aluminum is harder to detect than steel but if the loop is properly located, and there is sufficient gain in the electronics, aluminum should be no problem. Even the aluminum in the wheels of a carbon fiber bicycle should be sufficient. What surprised me is that even though I have a steel-framed bicycle, the wheels are what should trigger the sensor, and the wheels on my wife's bicycle have a lot more metal than the wheels on mine. A carbon fiber bicycle with carbon fiber rims would be difficult to detect since you'd have to detect the metal in the drive train or in the spokes (unless carbon fiber spokes are used). Ironically, carbon fiber does make other sensing functions easier because you can put sensors inside the frame and they can detect metal right through the carbon fiber. So embedded cadence, wheel rotation, and torque sensors are easier on carbon fiber. |
#24
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Loop detector detector?
On Monday, August 18, 2014 10:28:26 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 17, 2014 7:47:23 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/17/2014 8:12 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: I assume that these lights are in your local village. Is it not possible the get the local highway department to paint a location marker on the pavement to indicate where a bicycle would have to be to trigger the light? There are a couple sets of lights (the ones near the school) that are in my village. There are others that are in a neighboring township. And there are probably many more in our metro area. In my village, I've volunteered to do the painting myself. I can cut the stencil. I've discussed this with the village council president before, and will discuss it again. But in general, someone needs to know where the sweet spot is, before that spot can be marked. In some cases, I do know. In other cases, I think nobody knows. Hence the desirability of a detector. Incidentally, I'm considering whether it would be a good project for our bike club to just bypass the red tape and do the marking ourselves. That strategy has advantages and disadvantages, of course. There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know. -- Jay Beattie. ssssssssssssssssss I creep....a van moving from stop requires more energy than an accelerating van, cruise up cruise off. Esping the light changes is abt 100%...possible to light up the tires n cross the line as lights turn green. Sometimes if enough local are on the blvd we play a gameof let's see if we can beat the Van into green. Not often b ut a few... This led to a casual warning the law is NO movement before green. BAH ! |
#25
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Loop detector detector?
On Monday, August 18, 2014 10:28:26 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know. http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/B...B_145_I_Y.html But it solves only a small part of the problem. We need to get detectors that sense any road-legal vehicle. Or, for other states, any road-legal device operated by a person with all the rights and duties of a vehicle operator. - Frank Krygowski |
#26
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Loop detector detector?
On 19/08/14 00:28, jbeattie wrote:
There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know. I know of no such language, but I'd like to propose a bill such as that to one of our Greens MPs, who's right on to the active transport "thing". -- JS |
#27
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Loop detector detector?
On Monday, August 18, 2014 12:15:37 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Monday, August 18, 2014 10:28:26 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote: There are several intersections around here where the powers-that-be actually applied graphics indicating where bicyclists should be located to trigger the loop. The loops still don't work. It is against the law to blow the light. I'm thinking of proposing a bill allowing bicyclists to proceed safely through the intersection, but I have to work on some language. If you know of a statute or proposed language, let me know. http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/B...B_145_I_Y.html But it solves only a small part of the problem. We need to get detectors that sense any road-legal vehicle. Or, for other states, any road-legal device operated by a person with all the rights and duties of a vehicle operator.. - Frank Krygowski Thanks. I'll clean-up the language and see if I can scrape up a sponsor. I'm also going to see if something like this has been proposed in the past. -- Jay Beattie. |
#28
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Loop detector detector?
On Mon, 18 Aug 2014 18:15:14 +1000, James
wrote: Frank didn't mention it was a car radio. True. However, I have difficulties visualizing Frank carrying a boom box on his shoulder, blasting away in low fidelity AM. Then again, it might have been a car radio: http://www.duskyswondersite.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/lords-of-logistics-7b-dashboard-boom.jpg It might also be a 40kHz square wave (or heavily distorted 40kHz wave of some description), with harmonics that spread way up through the spectrum. Sure, if the equipment supplier doesn't care about FCC incidental radiation requirements (FCC Part 15). The FCC generally fails to appreciate spewing RF on frequencies where it will do little good or cause interference. More likely, the equipment vendor made some effort to minimize the harmonics and to keep the power levels low enough so it would not be heard on anyone's receiver: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintentional_radiator -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#29
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Loop detector detector?
Jay Beattie.
west laws database is directly addressable to: state or county bicycle laws stop signs and lights then crossing as a filter true ? also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_47_CFR_Part_15 |
#30
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Loop detector detector?
On 8/18/2014 6:09 AM, xpzzzz wrote:
Have a look at http://www.google.com/patents/US7907065 which has a good explanation in the description of related art. ISTR seeing a patent for a large steel plate (at least a foot square) carried on a bicycle and attached to it by a string. Upon coming to a traffic light, the rider was supposed to throw the plate down on the ground to trigger the loop detector. Thing is, the patent was supposedly for this OR ANY OTHER method of triggering a green light for a bicycle. I don't know how defensible such a ludicrous patent would be. But the cost of battling it would certainly deter a certain amount of innovation. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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