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#31
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Michelin Power Endurance Tires
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:29:15 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-26 10:07, Doug Landau wrote: On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 7:44:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-25 10:50, Doug Landau wrote: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote: [...] ... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep that at bay until you wear it out. I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made on products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk away from the product, as I did here. Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting manufacturer's mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that multiple manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either can't or won't produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be wrapped like a bageldog to work Put one in a MTB rear tire, ride lots of rocky trails and look at the tube after a few thousand miles. You will be unpleasantly surprised. _Then_ voice an opinion. I already did so 25 years ago and will not be surprised and have already voiced my opinion. I told you here before you tried them that mr tuffys out of the box will chafe a hole in your tube. I didn't say you are wrong to correct manufacturer's mistakes, I said you are wrong when you said you won't. And won't plan to. Now take a new gatorskin, take a tube of Permatex #2 or other black automotive gasket sealer, and a latex glove, and run a thin layer over the sidewalls, and tell us how that worked out six months later. So what's next? Build your won tire? There comes a limit and there is no need to buy expensive tires with poorly design side walls. Because you can buy tires with better side walls. Which I am now doing. With tire liners there is no such option, with tires there is. The fact is, I tell you again from experience, keeping Contis with their sidewall problems on the road is trivially easy and costs about a penny. |
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#32
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Michelin Power Endurance Tires
On 10/26/2017 12:29 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-26 10:07, Doug Landau wrote: On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 7:44:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-25 10:50, Doug Landau wrote: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote: [...] ... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep that at bay until you wear it out. I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made on products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk away from the product, as I did here. Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting manufacturer's mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that multiple manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either can't or won't produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be wrapped like a bageldog to work Put one in a MTB rear tire, ride lots of rocky trails and look at the tube after a few thousand miles. You will be unpleasantly surprised. _Then_ voice an opinion. I already did so 25 years ago and will not be surprised and have already voiced my opinion. I told you here before you tried them that mr tuffys out of the box will chafe a hole in your tube. I didn't say you are wrong to correct manufacturer's mistakes, I said you are wrong when you said you won't. And won't plan to. Now take a new gatorskin, take a tube of Permatex #2 or other black automotive gasket sealer, and a latex glove, and run a thin layer over the sidewalls, and tell us how that worked out six months later. So what's next? Build your won tire? There comes a limit and there is no need to buy expensive tires with poorly design side walls. Because you can buy tires with better side walls. Which I am now doing. With tire liners there is no such option, with tires there is. Get in touch with Doug Cimperman for the latest in custom tire casings. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#34
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Michelin Power Endurance Tires
On 10/26/2017 1:51 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-26 09:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/26/2017 10:24 AM, wrote: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 2:27:58 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:50:31 PM UTC-7, wrote: I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance though some people say that they cut easily. The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply be personal opinion. I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos on them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a real long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires. But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a Continental Gatorskin. So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of flat-proof tires. That's disappointing to hear.Â* I don't think my Pro4 Endurance are that tough, but they are certainly more flat-proof than Pro4 Service Course.Â* The version II of the Pro4 Endurance supposedly had lower rolling resistance than version I of the Service Course. The Endurance was a pretty fast tire. You have to wonder why they fooled with it.Â* I don't think Gatorskins or 4Seasons have changed in ten years.Â* Conti has not seen a need to constantly fiddle with them, although like Joerg said, they might want to re-think the sidewalls. I hope not if it means increasing rolling resistance. If you don't want flats or side wall cuts in case you hit a rock use Schwalbe marathon plus tires and accept the weight penalty and increase in rolling resistance instead of demanding sturdier side walls of high performance tires. The worry about sidewall cuts surprises me. I get them so seldom they're not even a concern. That's despite regular brief excursions on gravel, using Paselas, or Gatorskins, or Schwalbe Marathons, depending on the bike. Long ago I had some sidewall bubbles (not cuts) in Continental touring tires, but I think that's a different problem entirely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7VR3jdwZ3k Well, that stuff happens to people who use flashing headlights at night. Bad karma! -- - Frank Krygowski |
#35
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Michelin Power Endurance Tires
On 2017-10-26 12:21, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/26/2017 12:29 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-26 10:07, Doug Landau wrote: On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 7:44:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-25 10:50, Doug Landau wrote: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote: [...] ... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep that at bay until you wear it out. I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made on products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk away from the product, as I did here. Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting manufacturer's mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that multiple manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either can't or won't produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be wrapped like a bageldog to work Put one in a MTB rear tire, ride lots of rocky trails and look at the tube after a few thousand miles. You will be unpleasantly surprised. _Then_ voice an opinion. I already did so 25 years ago and will not be surprised and have already voiced my opinion. I told you here before you tried them that mr tuffys out of the box will chafe a hole in your tube. I didn't say you are wrong to correct manufacturer's mistakes, I said you are wrong when you said you won't. And won't plan to. Now take a new gatorskin, take a tube of Permatex #2 or other black automotive gasket sealer, and a latex glove, and run a thin layer over the sidewalls, and tell us how that worked out six months later. So what's next? Build your won tire? There comes a limit and there is no need to buy expensive tires with poorly design side walls. Because you can buy tires with better side walls. Which I am now doing. With tire liners there is no such option, with tires there is. Get in touch with Doug Cimperman for the latest in custom tire casings. Yes, I know Doug does that but I don't want to go quite that far. Bicycles require enough homebrew solutions as it is to make them useful as utility vehicles. I just use other brands with better side walls. So far their mileage is paltry but since they are proportionately cheaper it's not as bad. I'll use those until I find something that last longer. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#36
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Michelin Power Endurance Tires
On 2017-10-26 15:50, wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:51:28 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-26 09:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/26/2017 10:24 AM, wrote: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 2:27:58 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:50:31 PM UTC-7, wrote: I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance though some people say that they cut easily. The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply be personal opinion. I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos on them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a real long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires. But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a Continental Gatorskin. So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of flat-proof tires. That's disappointing to hear. I don't think my Pro4 Endurance are that tough, but they are certainly more flat-proof than Pro4 Service Course. The version II of the Pro4 Endurance supposedly had lower rolling resistance than version I of the Service Course. The Endurance was a pretty fast tire. You have to wonder why they fooled with it. I don't think Gatorskins or 4Seasons have changed in ten years. Conti has not seen a need to constantly fiddle with them, although like Joerg said, they might want to re-think the sidewalls. I hope not if it means increasing rolling resistance. If you don't want flats or side wall cuts in case you hit a rock use Schwalbe marathon plus tires and accept the weight penalty and increase in rolling resistance instead of demanding sturdier side walls of high performance tires. The worry about sidewall cuts surprises me. I get them so seldom they're not even a concern. That's despite regular brief excursions on gravel, using Paselas, or Gatorskins, or Schwalbe Marathons, depending on the bike. Long ago I had some sidewall bubbles (not cuts) in Continental touring tires, but I think that's a different problem entirely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7VR3jdwZ3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vOQQISgIjs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEUYW7LNgw4 Some of their other series seem to have side wall blows as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiPBo0hdrvA I ride Market St. or 3rd or others with heavy train tracks. I ride over the local Alameda bridges and they are all steel gratings. I ride over the steel plates thrown over the top of excavations. And I've never had a sidewall blowout on a Gatorskin. Though I have on the less expensive tires. I'm wondering if you over or under inflate your tires a large amount. I inflate to around 105psi and don't let them drop lower than 75psi. A road bike tire is supposed to be able to live with that. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#37
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Michelin Power Endurance Tires
On 10/26/2017 6:38 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-26 12:21, AMuzi wrote: On 10/26/2017 12:29 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-26 10:07, Doug Landau wrote: On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 7:44:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-25 10:50, Doug Landau wrote: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote: [...] ... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep that at bay until you wear it out. I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made on products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk away from the product, as I did here. Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting manufacturer's mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that multiple manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either can't or won't produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be wrapped like a bageldog to work Put one in a MTB rear tire, ride lots of rocky trails and look at the tube after a few thousand miles. You will be unpleasantly surprised. _Then_ voice an opinion. I already did so 25 years ago and will not be surprised and have already voiced my opinion. I told you here before you tried them that mr tuffys out of the box will chafe a hole in your tube. I didn't say you are wrong to correct manufacturer's mistakes, I said you are wrong when you said you won't. And won't plan to. Now take a new gatorskin, take a tube of Permatex #2 or other black automotive gasket sealer, and a latex glove, and run a thin layer over the sidewalls, and tell us how that worked out six months later. So what's next? Build your won tire? There comes a limit and there is no need to buy expensive tires with poorly design side walls. Because you can buy tires with better side walls. Which I am now doing. With tire liners there is no such option, with tires there is. Get in touch with Doug Cimperman for the latest in custom tire casings. Yes, I know Doug does that but I don't want to go quite that far. Bicycles require enough homebrew solutions as it is to make them useful as utility vehicles. I just use other brands with better side walls. So far their mileage is paltry but since they are proportionately cheaper it's not as bad. I'll use those until I find something that last longer. If you buy a pair, Doug can spread his development costs over twice the unit volume! -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#38
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Michelin Power Endurance Tires
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 5:24:28 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/26/2017 6:38 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-26 12:21, AMuzi wrote: On 10/26/2017 12:29 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-26 10:07, Doug Landau wrote: On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 7:44:24 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-25 10:50, Doug Landau wrote: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 10:42:59 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-25 10:38, Doug Landau wrote: [...] ... As I said before yes the conti sidewalls will suffer in the summer sun, but a little black gasket sealer will keep that at bay until you wear it out. I am not planning on having to correct mistakes a manufacturer made on products that are expensive to begin with. Then I simply walk away from the product, as I did here. Are you kidding?!? You spend more time correcting manufacturer's mistakes than anybody. Including mistakes that multiple manufacturers collude upon. Hell together they either can't or won't produce a mr tuffy that you don't say has to be wrapped like a bageldog to work Put one in a MTB rear tire, ride lots of rocky trails and look at the tube after a few thousand miles. You will be unpleasantly surprised. _Then_ voice an opinion. I already did so 25 years ago and will not be surprised and have already voiced my opinion. I told you here before you tried them that mr tuffys out of the box will chafe a hole in your tube. I didn't say you are wrong to correct manufacturer's mistakes, I said you are wrong when you said you won't. And won't plan to. Now take a new gatorskin, take a tube of Permatex #2 or other black automotive gasket sealer, and a latex glove, and run a thin layer over the sidewalls, and tell us how that worked out six months later. So what's next? Build your won tire? There comes a limit and there is no need to buy expensive tires with poorly design side walls. Because you can buy tires with better side walls. Which I am now doing. With tire liners there is no such option, with tires there is. Get in touch with Doug Cimperman for the latest in custom tire casings. Yes, I know Doug does that but I don't want to go quite that far. Bicycles require enough homebrew solutions as it is to make them useful as utility vehicles. I just use other brands with better side walls. So far their mileage is paltry but since they are proportionately cheaper it's not as bad. I'll use those until I find something that last longer. If you buy a pair, Doug can spread his development costs over twice the unit volume! He is, in fact, the only soul here other than myself who has his head screwed on straight. Coincidence? I think not. dkl |
#39
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Michelin Power Endurance Tires
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 4:39:17 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-10-26 15:50, wrote: On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:51:28 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-26 09:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/26/2017 10:24 AM, wrote: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 2:27:58 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:50:31 PM UTC-7, wrote: I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance though some people say that they cut easily. The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply be personal opinion. I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos on them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a real long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires. But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a Continental Gatorskin. So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of flat-proof tires. That's disappointing to hear. I don't think my Pro4 Endurance are that tough, but they are certainly more flat-proof than Pro4 Service Course. The version II of the Pro4 Endurance supposedly had lower rolling resistance than version I of the Service Course. The Endurance was a pretty fast tire. You have to wonder why they fooled with it. I don't think Gatorskins or 4Seasons have changed in ten years. Conti has not seen a need to constantly fiddle with them, although like Joerg said, they might want to re-think the sidewalls.. I hope not if it means increasing rolling resistance. If you don't want flats or side wall cuts in case you hit a rock use Schwalbe marathon plus tires and accept the weight penalty and increase in rolling resistance instead of demanding sturdier side walls of high performance tires. The worry about sidewall cuts surprises me. I get them so seldom they're not even a concern. That's despite regular brief excursions on gravel, using Paselas, or Gatorskins, or Schwalbe Marathons, depending on the bike. Long ago I had some sidewall bubbles (not cuts) in Continental touring tires, but I think that's a different problem entirely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7VR3jdwZ3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vOQQISgIjs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEUYW7LNgw4 Some of their other series seem to have side wall blows as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiPBo0hdrvA I ride Market St. or 3rd or others with heavy train tracks. I ride over the local Alameda bridges and they are all steel gratings. I ride over the steel plates thrown over the top of excavations. And I've never had a sidewall blowout on a Gatorskin. Though I have on the less expensive tires. I'm wondering if you over or under inflate your tires a large amount. I inflate to around 105psi and don't let them drop lower than 75psi. A road bike tire is supposed to be able to live with that. When I started road cycling the nice guy at my LBS who was mentoring me expressed surprise that I was not yet pumping up my tires every day, and then appeared alarmed at my response, and said emphatically "Below 80 they can roll off in a corner!!!" |
#40
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Michelin Power Endurance Tires
On 2017-10-30 12:14, Doug Landau wrote:
On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 4:39:17 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-26 15:50, wrote: On Thursday, October 26, 2017 at 10:51:28 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2017-10-26 09:56, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 10/26/2017 10:24 AM, wrote: On Wednesday, October 25, 2017 at 2:27:58 AM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, October 24, 2017 at 3:50:31 PM UTC-7, wrote: I picked up a piece of glass today and got a flat on my third ride on this tire. I didn't get any flats on the Pro4 Endurance though some people say that they cut easily. The Pro4 Endurance tire rolled really easily - something that the Power Endurance doesn't seem to do. Though that could simply be personal opinion. I'm selling a set of wheels and they have Specialized Armadillos on them. They did not have more than possibly 500 miles on them and showed a lot of wear. While looking at them one of them had a real long cut but still no flat. These are VERY expensive tires. But the flat I got today I'm sure I would not have gotten on a Continental Gatorskin. So it appears that Continental is still the uncontested king of flat-proof tires. That's disappointing to hear. I don't think my Pro4 Endurance are that tough, but they are certainly more flat-proof than Pro4 Service Course. The version II of the Pro4 Endurance supposedly had lower rolling resistance than version I of the Service Course. The Endurance was a pretty fast tire. You have to wonder why they fooled with it. I don't think Gatorskins or 4Seasons have changed in ten years. Conti has not seen a need to constantly fiddle with them, although like Joerg said, they might want to re-think the sidewalls. I hope not if it means increasing rolling resistance. If you don't want flats or side wall cuts in case you hit a rock use Schwalbe marathon plus tires and accept the weight penalty and increase in rolling resistance instead of demanding sturdier side walls of high performance tires. The worry about sidewall cuts surprises me. I get them so seldom they're not even a concern. That's despite regular brief excursions on gravel, using Paselas, or Gatorskins, or Schwalbe Marathons, depending on the bike. Long ago I had some sidewall bubbles (not cuts) in Continental touring tires, but I think that's a different problem entirely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7VR3jdwZ3k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vOQQISgIjs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEUYW7LNgw4 Some of their other series seem to have side wall blows as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiPBo0hdrvA I ride Market St. or 3rd or others with heavy train tracks. I ride over the local Alameda bridges and they are all steel gratings. I ride over the steel plates thrown over the top of excavations. And I've never had a sidewall blowout on a Gatorskin. Though I have on the less expensive tires. I'm wondering if you over or under inflate your tires a large amount. I inflate to around 105psi and don't let them drop lower than 75psi. A road bike tire is supposed to be able to live with that. When I started road cycling the nice guy at my LBS who was mentoring me expressed surprise that I was not yet pumping up my tires every day, ... There you can see how much cyclists have gotten used to sub-par gear. Can you imagine having to pump up the tires of your car every few days? and then appeared alarmed at my response, and said emphatically "Below 80 they can roll off in a corner!!!" They don't. Also, ever since I switched to thick tubes it takes 6-8 weeks to drop to 75psi. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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