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What is the point of tubeless tires?



 
 
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  #11  
Old January 12th 19, 07:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default What is the point of tubeless tires?

On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?


You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.
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  #12  
Old January 12th 19, 08:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default What is the point of tubeless tires?

On 2019-01-12 08:07, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 7:10:12 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/11/2019 11:11 PM, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do
they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for
non-racing riders?


The Ethos of Sales:

"The crap we sold you last year is no good. Here's the new one."


Dude, are you planning your own commercial demise? Get on board! As
TK points out, if you live in goathead-ville, tubeless is great, ...



It's not. Just one example: I was standing at a horse ranch near
singletrack, in Goatsheadville. A young couple came by and stopped. "Are
these horses friendly? Can we pet them also?" ... "Yeah, but by the way,
I hear some hissing" ... "Oh no, not again!". Green stuff was gently
oozing out of a pinhole in his tubeless front tire. Then we looked at
hers and the pressure was rather low. A thorn! She pulled it out,
sprattle, sprattle ... green stuff started oozing as well. So out came
the trusty Topeak Pocket Rocket pump. They said the slime will seal it.
Well, it did, for about five miles and then the ride was unfortunately
over for these two, the pressure just would no longer hold well. I could
not help them because I only had one spare tube but both their MTB were
flat.


... and
RR is better than slime-filled tubes in armored tires.



What's RR?


... Joerg should go tubeless, and in the MTB world, tubeless is king.



Nope. Thorn-resistant tubes plus tire liners rule. In my case the tire
liner is sleeved by an old regular thickness tube to avoid chafing.
Similar on my road bike except no sleeving of the tire liners.

Last time I had a flat? Heck, I don't even remember. The patch kit and
spare tubes were so far exclusively used on bikes of other riders.


... I get enough
plumbing and goopy fluids with Shimano hydraulic discs and probably
will pass on tubeless, but OTOH, riding in rain and having little
pieces of glass fret through my tires gets old, and tubeless might be
just what I need. Next year -- or maybe the year after that.


I tried slime tubes years ago. Didn't work, I eventually got flats and
then it was very nasty. Green splotches on the garage floor, always
having to watch that the dogs won't lick those, yuck. I threw those
tubes into the trash with gusto the millisecond Fedex brought the thick
thorn reistant tubes. These:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....XL._SL256_.jpg

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #13  
Old January 12th 19, 10:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default What is the point of tubeless tires?

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?


You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.


You can run Pro4s tubeless? Hmmmm. I have a bunch of Pro4s and a tubeless ready wheel set with OE valves in a bag somewhere. Maybe I'll get some sealant and give it a whirl.

As an aside, what I don't like about tubeless ready rims and regular tires/tubes is that the tire beads practically weld themselves to the rim. It's a pain getting the tire off the rim, and they're really tight getting tires on the rim. All that is necessary if you're running tubeless but not so necessary with an ordinary tire/tube combo.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #15  
Old January 12th 19, 11:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default What is the point of tubeless tires?

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 1:17:49 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?


You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want.. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole.. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.


You can run Pro4s tubeless? Hmmmm. I have a bunch of Pro4s and a tubeless ready wheel set with OE valves in a bag somewhere. Maybe I'll get some sealant and give it a whirl.

As an aside, what I don't like about tubeless ready rims and regular tires/tubes is that the tire beads practically weld themselves to the rim. It's a pain getting the tire off the rim, and they're really tight getting tires on the rim. All that is necessary if you're running tubeless but not so necessary with an ordinary tire/tube combo.

-- Jay Beattie.


The "Orange" sealant I used works well though they say that you have to replace it every three months or so. One of the local shop mechanics that rides a lot of MTB uses some grey stuff (Finish Line) that looks like it has glitter in it. He says that you don't have to replace it. It appears to me that it is slower to set than the Orange though.

Working on those tubeless carbon rims that broke, that grey stuff was kind of nastier than the Orange and I suspected that it would be less effective but it washes pretty much off with water so no big deal. I replaced the Orange with the grey stuff in one tire and it didn't seem to leak out any faster around the rim when you reinflate.

I haven't heard anything positive about the green stuff (Slime). I suspect it was formulated to use inside of an innertube which would be far easier to seal what with two layers.

I suggest you start with Orange by the "injection system" https://www.amazon.com/OrangeSealCyc...s+tire+sealant

Use a half bottle in each tire on a road bike.
  #16  
Old January 13th 19, 12:01 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 805
Default What is the point of tubeless tires?

On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 13:17:47 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?


You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.


You can run Pro4s tubeless? Hmmmm. I have a bunch of Pro4s and a tubeless ready wheel set with OE valves in a bag somewhere. Maybe I'll get some sealant and give it a whirl.

As an aside, what I don't like about tubeless ready rims and regular tires/tubes is that the tire beads practically weld themselves to the rim. It's a pain getting the tire off the rim, and they're really tight getting tires on the rim. All that is necessary if you're running tubeless but not so necessary with an ordinary tire/tube combo.

-- Jay Beattie.


Tubular;s are the solution. Can be changed with no tools at all. :-)

cheers,

John B.


  #17  
Old January 13th 19, 12:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 1,261
Default What is the point of tubeless tires?

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 1:17:49 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?


You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want.. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole.. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.


You can run Pro4s tubeless? Hmmmm. I have a bunch of Pro4s and a tubeless ready wheel set with OE valves in a bag somewhere. Maybe I'll get some sealant and give it a whirl.

As an aside, what I don't like about tubeless ready rims and regular tires/tubes is that the tire beads practically weld themselves to the rim. It's a pain getting the tire off the rim, and they're really tight getting tires on the rim. All that is necessary if you're running tubeless but not so necessary with an ordinary tire/tube combo.

-- Jay Beattie.


There's pretty much a problem using "tubeless ready" tires on any rims. So if you're using those tires you'll have a fight getting them on. I break the plastic levers pretty regularly but I always keep extras around.

I may have given the impression that you can use any tires as tubeless - you cannot. They HAVE to be tubeless tires. The only tires I know that are tubeless and heavier than the normal tire is the Continental 5000(?) which is heavier tan the 4000. My Vittoria top of the line tires are the lightest available and tubeless. They also have the lowest rolling resistance in the tests.

Jeorge - RR is Rolling Resistance. One street tires there is a very large variation in RR between tires. My Vittoria Corsa Speed has about half the RR of the Continental Gran Prix. Not that this is a lot of drag but every little bit etc.
  #18  
Old January 13th 19, 12:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 1,261
Default What is the point of tubeless tires?

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 3:01:14 PM UTC-8, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 13:17:47 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Saturday, January 12, 2019 at 10:24:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 11, 2019 at 9:11:35 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What problem do they solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for non-racing riders?

You have to have tubeless rims. Otherwise you can use any tire you want. You can use extreme racing tires. Even pretty large punctures can seal almost instantly with the right sealing compound. No detectable air loss.

If you DO have a flat too large for the sealing compound to work which is possible, they make a device that puts a rubber plus in sealing the hole. I haven't even heard of anyone getting a hole that large. I do know one guy that picked up a carpet nail and left it in clicking on every turn before he got home. He said that when he pulled it out the tire got soft but sealed. He pumped it up and still rides it.

Besides being lighter and having a lower rolling resistance tire you also don't have to carry a flat kit on you. Frank tells us his flat his weighs 1/2 lb but mine - two innertubes, two CO2 cartridges, the filler tool and levers in a pack weights 2 lbs. This is more weight than my Look 206 delta pedals.

I have had no trouble at all with my Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires since converting to tubeless. Before I had flats so often that everyone around here runs Gatorskins which are heavy and have lousy traction.


You can run Pro4s tubeless? Hmmmm. I have a bunch of Pro4s and a tubeless ready wheel set with OE valves in a bag somewhere. Maybe I'll get some sealant and give it a whirl.

As an aside, what I don't like about tubeless ready rims and regular tires/tubes is that the tire beads practically weld themselves to the rim. It's a pain getting the tire off the rim, and they're really tight getting tires on the rim. All that is necessary if you're running tubeless but not so necessary with an ordinary tire/tube combo.

-- Jay Beattie.


Tubular;s are the solution. Can be changed with no tools at all. :-)

cheers,

John B.


In which case you live where the roads are in good condition and clean. I went over this elsewhere but I'll repeat it he

Racers use sewups NOT because they are a better tire. They use them because there is limited room on the roof racks. You can't change tires very quickly in the back of a station wagon trying to chase your team. So they have a pile of sewups pre-glued and simply peel off the flat, pull on the replacement, use a CO2 to re-inflate them and you can see the mechanic hanging out the window putting the almost instantly repaired tire back on the roof rack on TV coverage.

ALL of the team has to use the gearing that the team leader uses. So if he has a flat a team-mate changes wheels with him. In many cases they purposely hire team members that are all the same size as the leader so that they just switch bikes.

There are all kinds of little details that go into decreasing the total tour time each year. At another site they would ask pertinent questions all the time but they would all be attacked as the media does with Trump so the team mechanics wouldn't register on that site and would email me with the answers such as the sewup one.
  #19  
Old January 13th 19, 12:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default What is the point of tubeless tires?

On 1/12/2019 5:48 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:51:50 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/12/2019 9:45 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 1/12/19 4:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/11/2019 11:11 PM, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What
problem do they
solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for
non-racing
riders?


The Ethos of Sales:

"The crap we sold you last year is no good. Here's the
new one."

You wouldn't really be driving a Model-T rather than a
7-series would you?


All my cars are 1965.
No safety, no chinese electronics, no EPA, no nuffin'.

Model T are a real handful but I would certainly choose a
Model A over a BMW7 any day.


Certainly the Model A's have held their value well, :-)
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...e/ford/model-a


One of my best friends has a Model A pickup. It's interesting to me that
he says his pickup is worth less than a coupe, etc. Supposedly, to fit
the pickup bed, Ford made the cab smaller. Big guys don't fit in the
driver's seat, so the market for them is a bit less.

I can vouch for the fact that the seating is tight.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #20  
Old January 13th 19, 03:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
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Posts: 805
Default What is the point of tubeless tires?

On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 18:38:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/12/2019 5:48 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 10:51:50 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 1/12/2019 9:45 AM, Tosspot wrote:
On 1/12/19 4:10 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/11/2019 11:11 PM, wrote:
Seriously, what is the point of these things? What
problem do they
solve and is it worth the extra maintenance hassles for
non-racing
riders?


The Ethos of Sales:

"The crap we sold you last year is no good. Here's the
new one."

You wouldn't really be driving a Model-T rather than a
7-series would you?

All my cars are 1965.
No safety, no chinese electronics, no EPA, no nuffin'.

Model T are a real handful but I would certainly choose a
Model A over a BMW7 any day.


Certainly the Model A's have held their value well, :-)
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...e/ford/model-a


One of my best friends has a Model A pickup. It's interesting to me that
he says his pickup is worth less than a coupe, etc. Supposedly, to fit
the pickup bed, Ford made the cab smaller. Big guys don't fit in the
driver's seat, so the market for them is a bit less.

I can vouch for the fact that the seating is tight.


My grandfather bought a second hand Model A pickup back in something
like 1930 and sold it in about 1955. Paid something like $300 hundred
for and sold it for $400. He reckoned that he had gotten his money's
worth out if it :-)

cheers,

John B.


 




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