New track bike chain line advice

Hi, I've just received a hand built track bike (with adaptations for
road use), and I concerned to find that the chainring is fitted to the
inside of the spider - no shoulders are on this side to support the
ring - (it's a TA Alize track c/set), so it's only supported by the
five bolts! Given that the rear hub is double fixed so can't be
"dished", could it be that the frame is "out"? The bottom bracket is a
Shimano XT- the narrowist apparently, onto a 68mm shell. The drive
crank is only about 6mm from the shell, so there is not much allowance
left to move the crank closer to the frame to correct for fitting the
ring to it's proper position - moving the ring onto the outside
position would be about 10mm. I have contacted the makers and they are
to send me another bike box to post it off, so not much arguement
there! I have never had a "fixed" before, so I am at a loss as to how
they will correct this. Could someone be able to tell me what is the
likely problem with this bike?

Robert wrote:

Hi, I've just received a hand built track bike (with adaptations for
road use), and I concerned to find that the chainring is fitted to the
inside of the spider - no shoulders are on this side to support the
ring - (it's a TA Alize track c/set), so it's only supported by the
five bolts! Given that the rear hub is double fixed so can't be
"dished", could it be that the frame is "out"? The bottom bracket is a
Shimano XT- the narrowist apparently, onto a 68mm shell. The drive
crank is only about 6mm from the shell, so there is not much allowance
left to move the crank closer to the frame to correct for fitting the
ring to it's proper position - moving the ring onto the outside
position would be about 10mm. I have contacted the makers and they are
to send me another bike box to post it off, so not much arguement
there! I have never had a "fixed" before, so I am at a loss as to how
they will correct this. Could someone be able to tell me what is the
likely problem with this bike?

Best way to check this is to take a ruler and measure the chainline.

Normal track hubs with the sprockets in the normal orientation will give
a chainline of about 42 mm.

See my Chainline article for details in how to measure/calculate
chainline: http://sheldonbrown.com/chainline

Sheldon "Straight Ahead" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------+
| There is something fascinating about science. |
| One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture |
| out of such a trifling investment of fact. |
| --Mark Twain |
+-------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

Robert wrote:

Hi, I've just received a hand built track bike (with adaptations for
road use), and I concerned to find that the chainring is fitted to the
inside of the spider - no shoulders are on this side to support the
ring - (it's a TA Alize track c/set), so it's only supported by the
five bolts! Given that the rear hub is double fixed so can't be
"dished", could it be that the frame is "out"? The bottom bracket is a
Shimano XT- the narrowist apparently, onto a 68mm shell. The drive
crank is only about 6mm from the shell, so there is not much allowance
left to move the crank closer to the frame to correct for fitting the
ring to it's proper position - moving the ring onto the outside
position would be about 10mm. I have contacted the makers and they are
to send me another bike box to post it off, so not much arguement
there! I have never had a "fixed" before, so I am at a loss as to how
they will correct this. Could someone be able to tell me what is the
likely problem with this bike?

Best way to check this is to take a ruler and measure the chainline.

Normal track hubs with the sprockets in the normal orientation will give
a chainline of about 42 mm.

See my Chainline article for details in how to measure/calculate
chainline: http://sheldonbrown.com/chainline

Sheldon "Straight Ahead" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------+
| There is something fascinating about science. |
| One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture |
| out of such a trifling investment of fact. |
| --Mark Twain |
+-------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

On 28 Aug 2004 15:50:25 -0700, (Robert) wrote:

Hi, I've just received a hand built track bike (with adaptations for
road use), and I concerned to find that the chainring is fitted to the
inside of the spider - no shoulders are on this side to support the
ring - (it's a TA Alize track c/set), so it's only supported by the
five bolts! Given that the rear hub is double fixed so can't be
"dished", could it be that the frame is "out"? The bottom bracket is a
Shimano XT- the narrowist apparently, onto a 68mm shell.
snip
Could someone be able to tell me what is the
likely problem with this bike?

There have been two TA cranks bearing the name "Alize Piste". If you
have the later of the two (show in the picture at
http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcr-ta3.JPG), the manufacturer
recommends a bottom bracket with a symmetrical 103 mm spindle with ISO
tapers. Your XT bottom bracket spindle is much longer than that
specification and its taper type may further exacerbate the chainline
problem.


-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
http://www.businesscycles.com
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
-------------------------------

On 28 Aug 2004 15:50:25 -0700, (Robert) wrote:

Hi, I've just received a hand built track bike (with adaptations for
road use), and I concerned to find that the chainring is fitted to the
inside of the spider - no shoulders are on this side to support the
ring - (it's a TA Alize track c/set), so it's only supported by the
five bolts! Given that the rear hub is double fixed so can't be
"dished", could it be that the frame is "out"? The bottom bracket is a
Shimano XT- the narrowist apparently, onto a 68mm shell.
snip
Could someone be able to tell me what is the
likely problem with this bike?

There have been two TA cranks bearing the name "Alize Piste". If you
have the later of the two (show in the picture at
http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcr-ta3.JPG), the manufacturer
recommends a bottom bracket with a symmetrical 103 mm spindle with ISO
tapers. Your XT bottom bracket spindle is much longer than that
specification and its taper type may further exacerbate the chainline
problem.


-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
http://www.businesscycles.com
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
-------------------------------

John Dacey wrote in message . ..
On 28 Aug 2004 15:50:25 -0700, (Robert) wrote:

Hi, I've just received a hand built track bike (with adaptations for
road use), and I concerned to find that the chainring is fitted to the
inside of the spider - no shoulders are on this side to support the
ring - (it's a TA Alize track c/set), so it's only supported by the
five bolts! Given that the rear hub is double fixed so can't be
"dished", could it be that the frame is "out"? The bottom bracket is a
Shimano XT- the narrowist apparently, onto a 68mm shell.
snip
Could someone be able to tell me what is the
likely problem with this bike?

There have been two TA cranks bearing the name "Alize Piste". If you
have the later of the two (show in the picture at
http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcr-ta3.JPG), the manufacturer
recommends a bottom bracket with a symmetrical 103 mm spindle with ISO
tapers. Your XT bottom bracket spindle is much longer than that
specification and its taper type may further exacerbate the chainline
problem.


-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
http://www.businesscycles.com
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
-------------------------------

Thank you both for your comments, my c/set is, indeed, the one in the
link. Sheldon, the distance is 42mm from seat tube c - c front
chainring, but, to move the ring to the proper position would make it
about 52mm! John, the crank is very close to the right shell - 4-5mm
away, so I don't know if the spindle is the cause of this - the left
crank has more protuding, 8-9mm. The rear sprocket is 18mm away from
the track end - inside edge - making it OK there. Is there an easy way
to check the frame for mis-allingment? As an aside, have you knowledge
of Suzue "grand velo" track hubs? - I specified dura-ace! Thank you
all, Robert.

John Dacey wrote in message . ..
On 28 Aug 2004 15:50:25 -0700, (Robert) wrote:

Hi, I've just received a hand built track bike (with adaptations for
road use), and I concerned to find that the chainring is fitted to the
inside of the spider - no shoulders are on this side to support the
ring - (it's a TA Alize track c/set), so it's only supported by the
five bolts! Given that the rear hub is double fixed so can't be
"dished", could it be that the frame is "out"? The bottom bracket is a
Shimano XT- the narrowist apparently, onto a 68mm shell.
snip
Could someone be able to tell me what is the
likely problem with this bike?

There have been two TA cranks bearing the name "Alize Piste". If you
have the later of the two (show in the picture at
http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcr-ta3.JPG), the manufacturer
recommends a bottom bracket with a symmetrical 103 mm spindle with ISO
tapers. Your XT bottom bracket spindle is much longer than that
specification and its taper type may further exacerbate the chainline
problem.


-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
http://www.businesscycles.com
Since 1983
Our catalog of track equipment: online since 1996
-------------------------------

Thank you both for your comments, my c/set is, indeed, the one in the
link. Sheldon, the distance is 42mm from seat tube c - c front
chainring, but, to move the ring to the proper position would make it
about 52mm! John, the crank is very close to the right shell - 4-5mm
away, so I don't know if the spindle is the cause of this - the left
crank has more protuding, 8-9mm. The rear sprocket is 18mm away from
the track end - inside edge - making it OK there. Is there an easy way
to check the frame for mis-allingment? As an aside, have you knowledge
of Suzue "grand velo" track hubs? - I specified dura-ace! Thank you
all, Robert.

Robert wrote:

Thank you both for your comments, my c/set is, indeed, the one in the
link. Sheldon, the distance is 42mm from seat tube c - c front
chainring, but, to move the ring to the proper position would make it
about 52mm! John, the crank is very close to the right shell - 4-5mm
away, so I don't know if the spindle is the cause of this - the left
crank has more protuding, 8-9mm. The rear sprocket is 18mm away from
the track end - inside edge - making it OK there. Is there an easy way
to check the frame for mis-allingment? As an aside, have you knowledge
of Suzue "grand velo" track hubs? - I specified dura-ace! Thank you
all, Robert.

Sounds like you need to get the BB replaced with the proper 103mm TA
Axix Light BB (I think there may once have been a 103mm Shimano UN91
when Dura-Ace and XTR used a square taper, but it's not listed now).

FWIW, my Fuji Track also has the chainring mounted on the inside of the
spider, but that's because it uses a Truvativ Touro road chainset. I
don't think they could stretch to a proper track chainset for the 300UKP
that the bike costs.

Robert wrote:

Thank you both for your comments, my c/set is, indeed, the one in the
link. Sheldon, the distance is 42mm from seat tube c - c front
chainring, but, to move the ring to the proper position would make it
about 52mm! John, the crank is very close to the right shell - 4-5mm
away, so I don't know if the spindle is the cause of this - the left
crank has more protuding, 8-9mm. The rear sprocket is 18mm away from
the track end - inside edge - making it OK there. Is there an easy way
to check the frame for mis-allingment? As an aside, have you knowledge
of Suzue "grand velo" track hubs? - I specified dura-ace! Thank you
all, Robert.

Sounds like you need to get the BB replaced with the proper 103mm TA
Axix Light BB (I think there may once have been a 103mm Shimano UN91
when Dura-Ace and XTR used a square taper, but it's not listed now).

FWIW, my Fuji Track also has the chainring mounted on the inside of the
spider, but that's because it uses a Truvativ Touro road chainset. I
don't think they could stretch to a proper track chainset for the 300UKP
that the bike costs.

John Dacey wrote:

There have been two TA cranks bearing the name "Alize Piste". If you
have the later of the two (show in the picture at
http://www.businesscycles.com/graphics/tcr-ta3.JPG), the manufacturer
recommends a bottom bracket with a symmetrical 103 mm spindle with ISO
tapers.

Didn't TA change to the Shimano (JIS) taper recently?