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Cyclist jumps red light for safety, but what about the child? (on theback)



 
 
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  #31  
Old September 26th 17, 10:37 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nick[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,323
Default Cyclist jumps red light for safety, but what about the child? (onthe back)

On 26/09/2017 10:15, TMS320 wrote:
On 26/09/17 09:55, TMS320 wrote:
On 25/09/17 13:27, Nick wrote:


The point is I'm not convinced Alliston was doing anything worse.


I don't disagree. Some people seem to have more issue with the noises
Alliston made, than his mechanical actions. After all, the fact of him
having no front brake, the physics involved and the collision with Mrs
Briggs weren't in doubt so the only point of the trial was to look
inside his head and set the sentence based on what they found in there.


I posted this just before reading about the driver going ahead with the
teacher on his bonnet. With sentencing based on state of mind, not
consequences, 10 months looks rather lenient in comparison. Refusal to
park properly and walk 100 yards should also have been added to the
package.


Not traffic related but you could read also about suspend sentence for
Lavinia Woodward who was "too bright" to be given a prison sentence
after stabbing her boyfriend and then breaking bail conditions.

Being poor and rude words seems to be a critical factor.

Funny, I would much prefer to be sworn at than physically damaged.
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  #32  
Old September 26th 17, 03:25 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Cyclist jumps red light for safety, but what about the child? (onthe back)

On 26/09/2017 10:15, TMS320 wrote:

On 26/09/17 09:55, TMS320 wrote:
On 25/09/17 13:27, Nick wrote:


The point is I'm not convinced Alliston was doing anything worse.


I don't disagree. Some people seem to have more issue with the noises
Alliston made, than his mechanical actions. After all, the fact of him
having no front brake,


.... or, indeed, any brakes at all...

the physics involved and the collision with Mrs
Briggs weren't in doubt so the only point of the trial was to look
inside his head and set the sentence based on what they found in there.


I posted this just before reading about the driver going ahead with the
teacher on his bonnet. With sentencing based on state of mind, not
consequences, 10 months looks rather lenient in comparison. Refusal to
park properly and walk 100 yards should also have been added to the
package.


If that's the case reported today on the TV news, I'm inclined to agree
tht 18 months for the driving offence cannot possibly be described as
harsh and that there was a lot of room for improvement of the sentence.
It could as easily have ended up with the victim dead under the front
wheels and it's no thanks to the driver that it didn't.

Not sure about the imaginary "offence" of refusing to park properly,
though I agree that parking obstructively is more serious than it sounds
(though mey well be disconnected from that case).

If there were an offence of refusing to walk 100 yards, the most obvious
culprits would be cyclists cycling the first and last n yards of their
journeys on footways and the yobs who cycle through pedestrianised zones
(especially when there's a service of remembrance going on).

  #33  
Old September 26th 17, 03:34 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Cyclist jumps red light for safety, but what about the child? (onthe back)

On 26/09/2017 15:25, JNugent wrote:
On 26/09/2017 10:15, TMS320 wrote:

On 26/09/17 09:55, TMS320 wrote:
On 25/09/17 13:27, Nick wrote:


The point is I'm not convinced Alliston was doing anything worse.


I don't disagree. Some people seem to have more issue with the noises
Alliston made, than his mechanical actions. After all, the fact of
him having no front brake,


... or, indeed, any brakes at all...

the physics involved and the collision with Mrs Briggs weren't in
doubt so the only point of the trial was to look inside his head and
set the sentence based on what they found in there.


I posted this just before reading about the driver going ahead with
the teacher on his bonnet. With sentencing based on state of mind, not
consequences, 10 months looks rather lenient in comparison. Refusal to
park properly and walk 100 yards should also have been added to the
package.


If that's the case reported today on the TV news, I'm inclined to agree
tht 18 months for the driving offence cannot possibly be described as
harsh and that there was a lot of room for improvement of the sentence.
It could as easily have ended up with the victim dead under the front
wheels and it's no thanks to the driver that it didn't.


[snip]
I take that back, in part. I see that the lenient sentence was not even
as much as 18 months. It was apparently only 10 months.
  #34  
Old September 26th 17, 07:29 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,875
Default Cyclist jumps red light for safety, but what about the child? (onthe back)

On 26/09/17 15:25, JNugent wrote:
On 26/09/2017 10:15, TMS320 wrote:

On 26/09/17 09:55, TMS320 wrote:
On 25/09/17 13:27, Nick wrote:


The point is I'm not convinced Alliston was doing anything
worse.


I don't disagree. Some people seem to have more issue with the
noises Alliston made, than his mechanical actions. After all, the
fact of him having no front brake,


... or, indeed, any brakes at all...

the physics involved and the collision with Mrs Briggs weren't in
doubt so the only point of the trial was to look inside his head
and set the sentence based on what they found in there.


I posted this just before reading about the driver going ahead with
the teacher on his bonnet. With sentencing based on state of mind,
not consequences, 10 months looks rather lenient in comparison.
Refusal to park properly and walk 100 yards should also have been
added to the package.


If that's the case reported today on the TV news, I'm inclined to
agree tht 18 months for the driving offence cannot possibly be
described as harsh and that there was a lot of room for improvement
of the sentence. It could as easily have ended up with the victim
dead under the front wheels and it's no thanks to the driver that it
didn't.


Your later correction acknowledged.

Not sure about the imaginary "offence" of refusing to park properly,
though I agree that parking obstructively is more serious than it
sounds (though mey well be disconnected from that case).

If there were an offence of refusing to walk 100 yards,


It's part of assessing the offender's state of mind at the time of the
incident. Perhaps... a bit like shouting. You always seem to be keen on
the idea that state of mind is more important than the events.

the most obvious culprits would be cyclists cycling the first and
last n yards of their journeys on footways and the yobs who cycle
through pedestrianised zones (especially when there's a service of
remembrance going on).


Since you didn't get it, the comment about driving 100 yards was a dig
at the laziness of many people.

  #35  
Old October 27th 17, 02:13 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Cyclist jumps red light for safety, but what about the child? (onthe back)

On 26/09/2017 19:29, TMS320 wrote:

On 26/09/17 15:25, JNugent wrote:
On 26/09/2017 10:15, TMS320 wrote:
On 26/09/17 09:55, TMS320 wrote:
On 25/09/17 13:27, Nick wrote:


The point is I'm not convinced Alliston was doing anything
worse.


I don't disagree. Some people seem to have more issue with the
noises Alliston made, than his mechanical actions. After all, the
fact of him having no front brake,


... or, indeed, any brakes at all...


the physics involved and the collision with Mrs Briggs weren't in
Â*doubt so the only point of the trial was to look inside his head
and set the sentence based on what they found in there.


I posted this just before reading about the driver going ahead with
Â*the teacher on his bonnet. With sentencing based on state of mind,
not consequences, 10 months looks rather lenient in comparison.
Refusal to park properly and walk 100 yards should also have been
added to the package.


If that's the case reported today on the TV news, I'm inclined to
agree tht 18 months for the driving offence cannot possibly be
described as harsh and that there was a lot of room for improvement
of the sentence. It could as easily have ended up with the victim
dead under the front wheels and it's no thanks to the driver that it
didn't.


Your later correction acknowledged.

Not sure about the imaginary "offence" of refusing to park properly,
Â*though I agree that parking obstructively is more serious than it
sounds (though mey well be disconnected from that case).


If there were an offence of refusing to walk 100 yards,


It's part of assessing the offender's state of mind at the time of the
incident. Perhaps... a bit like shouting. You always seem to be keen on
the idea that state of mind is more important than the events.


It is important. Crimes require the mens rea element (which can be as
flimsy as recklessness, of course, as Alliston now knows).

the most obvious culprits would be cyclists cycling the first and
last n yards of their journeys on footways and the yobs who cycle
through pedestrianised zones (especially when there's a service of
remembrance going on).


Since you didn't get it, the comment about driving 100 yards was a dig
at the laziness of many people.


Oh, I got it. And I applied it correctly.

Pushing a car 100 yards (with proper safe control over it to boot) may
be thought a little beyond most of us without help with the steering,
braking, etc.

Pushing a bicycle 100 yards (eg, through a pedestrian-only area, or
through an area where vehicles have temporarily been prohibited, eg for
a religious service) is quite another thing.

 




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