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Before & after bike ghettos
On Oct 4, 10:19*am, Peter Cole wrote:
snip snip snip If the laws were indeed different for bikes, so that it was mandated from on high (so to speak) that MV's had to stop, while bikes could cruise, or WTH, ignore stop signs, then fine. There's good reason the laws are not written that way. Should MV's have to stop and wait for cyclists approaching intersections so they can cruise on through without slowing down because it's so hard for the poor cyclists to slow down, let alone stop and get up to speed again? Get real. Not even in Amsterdam, where cyclists are (mostly) the top of the food chain, do bikes not have to stop at marked or lit intersections. One aspect of aggression by MV operators is, many don't know how wide and long their vehicles are. An intended near miss is pretty chancy. I've been lucky so far, but I know others who haven't. IOW, the collision might not have been intentional, but the aggression certainly was. Including knowing, deep down, that as a motorist, you can hit a cyclist and cop a plea. Further, aggression by MV operators towards cyclists deters many potential riders. My daughter is on that list, after being "brushed back" by a jerk who didn't want her crossing the road to enter her middle school driveway, even though she said and I well believe, there was plenty of room. Maybe being buzzed gives you a warm fuzzy feeling. Not me. I'm a "get along" kinda guy, not a "whatever you do don't **** them off" kinda guy. Partly because I fully recognize, by long experience, that some of them are already ****ed off and cyclists are handy targets. When I turn my head to indicate I hear a motorist approaching from behind, and have no intention of suddenly veering into his path, I am not being a cowardly suck-ass, to put it in plain English. The rest of my "signaling intent" follows in similar manner. It's having a basic respect for others, sharing the road. The assholes get different signals, in general. PIck your fights carefully, as they always say. --D-y |
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Before & after bike ghettos
wrote in message ... On Oct 4, 10:19 am, Peter Cole wrote: snip snip snip If the laws were indeed different for bikes, so that it was mandated from on high (so to speak) that MV's had to stop, while bikes could cruise, or WTH, ignore stop signs, then fine. There's good reason the laws are not written that way. Should MV's have to stop and wait for cyclists approaching intersections so they can cruise on through without slowing down because it's so hard for the poor cyclists to slow down, let alone stop and get up to speed again? Get real. Not even in Amsterdam, where cyclists are (mostly) the top of the food chain, do bikes not have to stop at marked or lit intersections. The problem in some cases is that MV drivers don't think or maybe it's that they don't know that bikes have a right to be on the road. It's like they think that our presence is interfering with them. I was at a light yesterday. The right lane was right only. The center lane was straight or right and the left lane was straight only. I was in the center going straight. An MV pulled up behind me and when the right arrow lit, he started blowing his horn. I thought I'd be nice and moved to the right side of the lane to let him go around. We were the only two at the stop. He wanted me to move to the sidewalk. I told him he was in the wrong lane and he told me that I was in the road. This happened about 10 minutes after I was fighting with an 18 wheeler who was tailgaiting me over an overpass so I sort of lost it and told him to go f*ck himself. I would say that most of the people that I encounter in cars are pretty cool about bikes but it's the few lunatics that are dangerous (like the driver of the 18 wheeler). But what really bugged me about the guy at the stop, is that he didn't look like a lunatic. He was actually complaining to me because he thought that I was wrong. Anyway, my point is that I'm not sure that it matters what the laws are since most people don't seem to know them to begin with. |
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Before & after bike ghettos
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Before & after bike ghettos
On Oct 6, 10:53*am, "Duane Hebert" wrote:
I would say that most of the people that I encounter in cars are pretty cool about bikes but it's the few lunatics that are dangerous (like the driver of the 18 wheeler). * But what really bugged me about the guy at the stop, is that he didn't look like a lunatic. *He was actually complaining to me because he thought that I was wrong. Anyway, my point is that I'm not sure that it matters what the laws are since most people don't seem to know them to begin with. Education is the usual solution to ignorance. But how much do we hear about the need for such education - that is, teaching motorists the rules of the road regarding bicycles? Or teaching the cops the rules? Or teaching bicyclists those same rules? Precious little, in my experience. Cycling advocacy organizations should be starting there, I believe - or perhaps starting with getting laws improved, while also educating people as to what the laws are. This education should be happening via the various media - television, radio, internet, magazines, newspapers, driver's test study guides, billboards, signage, etc. And BTW, once the cops were properly educated, there would be a better chance they'd ticket (and thus educate) the few lunatics. Instead I see too many cycling advocates whining that "It's too dangerous! We need bike lanes!" It's magical thinking. - Frank Krygowski |
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Before & after bike ghettos
"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message ...
On Oct 6, 10:53 am, "Duane Hebert" wrote: I would say that most of the people that I encounter in cars are pretty cool about bikes but it's the few lunatics that are dangerous (like the driver of the 18 wheeler). But what really bugged me about the guy at the stop, is that he didn't look like a lunatic. He was actually complaining to me because he thought that I was wrong. Anyway, my point is that I'm not sure that it matters what the laws are since most people don't seem to know them to begin with. Education is the usual solution to ignorance. But how much do we hear about the need for such education - that is, teaching motorists the rules of the road regarding bicycles? Or teaching the cops the rules? Or teaching bicyclists those same rules? Precious little, in my experience. Cycling advocacy organizations should be starting there, I believe - or perhaps starting with getting laws improved, while also educating people as to what the laws are. This education should be happening via the various media - television, radio, internet, magazines, newspapers, driver's test study guides, billboards, signage, etc. And BTW, once the cops were properly educated, there would be a better chance they'd ticket (and thus educate) the few lunatics. Velo Quebec is pretty active in both education and advocacy as well as technical design with respect to cycling infrastructure. The city of Montreal uses them. http://www.velo.qc.ca/english/index.php?page=whoarewe http://www.velo.qc.ca/english/bikewaysdesign.php Instead I see too many cycling advocates whining that "It's too dangerous! We need bike lanes!" If you didn't use words like "whining" to describe people that don't share your view, you might have less problems with people here. |
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Before & after bike ghettos
On 10/6/2010 6:31 PM, AMuzi wrote:
wrote: I'm a "get along" kinda guy, not a "whatever you do don't **** them off" kinda guy. Partly because I fully recognize, by long experience, that some of them are already ****ed off and cyclists are handy targets. When I turn my head to indicate I hear a motorist approaching from behind, and have no intention of suddenly veering into his path, I am not being a cowardly suck-ass, to put it in plain English. The rest of my "signaling intent" follows in similar manner. It's having a basic respect for others, sharing the road. The assholes get different signals, in general. PIck your fights carefully, as they always say. --D-y If "I didn't see him" won't fly, try "sun was in my eyes" : http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/104376538.html One of the issues I have about the "same roads, same rules" mantra is that it implicitly supports the same liability principles that have evolved to serve an auto-centric system. I'm not sure that we, as cyclists, want that absolute equality. |
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Before & after bike ghettos
In rec.bicycles.tech Peter Cole wrote:
:On 10/6/2010 6:31 PM, AMuzi wrote: : wrote: : I'm a "get along" kinda guy, not a "whatever you do don't **** them : off" kinda guy. Partly because I fully recognize, by long experience, : that some of them are already ****ed off and cyclists are handy : targets. When I turn my head to indicate I hear a motorist approaching : from behind, and have no intention of suddenly veering into his path, : I am not being a cowardly suck-ass, to put it in plain English. The : rest of my "signaling intent" follows in similar manner. It's having a : basic respect for others, sharing the road. The assholes get different : signals, in general. PIck your fights carefully, as they always say. : --D-y : : : If "I didn't see him" won't fly, try "sun was in my eyes" : : http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/104376538.html :One of the issues I have about the "same roads, same rules" mantra is :that it implicitly supports the same liability principles that have :evolved to serve an auto-centric system. I'm not sure that we, as :cyclists, want that absolute equality. I've got insurance to cover wrecking cars. Most of the people reading this do. -- sig 74 |
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Before & after bike ghettos
On 10/7/2010 10:13 AM, David Scheidt wrote:
In rec.bicycles.tech Peter wrote: :On 10/6/2010 6:31 PM, AMuzi wrote: : If "I didn't see him" won't fly, try "sun was in my eyes" : : http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/104376538.html :One of the issues I have about the "same roads, same rules" mantra is :that it implicitly supports the same liability principles that have :evolved to serve an auto-centric system. I'm not sure that we, as :cyclists, want that absolute equality. I've got insurance to cover wrecking cars. Most of the people reading this do. I was thinking more of criminal liability, rather than financial. |
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