Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-07-18 01:53, sms wrote:
On 7/17/2018 6:15 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 4:38:09 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/17/2018 7:49 AM, Joerg wrote:

sigh Joerg, what are we talking about here? The maps they have up
there mostly cover streets, not trails. Yes, streets are for
transportation. But as I said, almost all bike paths are really linear
parks. IOW their recreational use _far_ exceeds their
transportation use
- like by a 100 to 1 ratio.


Go to the Bay Area, go to Sacramento, go to Davis or almost anywhere
around here and you will see that that is not correct.

LOL, obviously Frank is extrapolating his extremely limited experience
onto the ROW.

I don't know of any bike paths in the Bay Area that are "linear parks."
It might be nice if some were since a path that winds its way over and
under freeways is not so pleasant even if it is functional. There are
some paths that pass through parks, such as the Los Gatos Creek Trail
which passes through Campbell Park and Vasona Park, just because the
parks were also placed alongside the creek long before the path was
put in.

Actually, the path to Lexington has been there since before I was
born. Since Lexington was built at least. Alas, my childhood at
Lexington School.
http://www.losgatosca.gov/images/pag...n%20School.jpg
I can smell the bay trees!

The part from downtown Los Gatos to Lexington is not really a bike path.
I remember the first time I used it. when I got to the reservoir I had
to lift my bicycle over a fence, and it was not even possible to ride
the whole way. It wasn't even dirt, it was a rock path.

I suppose the question is who is responsible for maintenance. It looks
like the Los Gatos Creek Trail is managed by park services.
https://www.losgatosca.gov/170/Parks-Trails-Locations Some of the
bicycle facilities are linked parks in SCV and some are straight-up
MUPs. Do you have any that are designed for bikes specifically, or
are they all shared?

Why is the question who maintains it?


It does begin to matter when there is finger-pointing like with the rock
slide at Lake Natoma. Two years and ... nothing happened. One agency
points to the other, saying "not our responsibility". Government at its
finest. So everyone "clandestinely" climbs over the rocks now.


The American River Trail is basically a park. My Willamette Greenway
Trail is kind of a split the difference.
https://www.oregonhikers.org/w/image...C_Portland.jpg
I'd take that home except the ICE protesters are blocking a portion to
the north.

The American River Parkway is heavily used for commuting. It does pass
through parks in a bunch of cities along the way, just because parks
were along the river. It also goes past Costco and REI.


Correct. Just don't expect Frank to accept that fact :-)

Though lately it has in part become a "residential" facility with
homeless camps because the mayor of Sacramentos promised lots of free
stuff. So they came there and now the mayor and his folks are
"surprised" by the sharp rise in the number of homeless people. A lot of
them moved down there from the El Dorado Trail area which is a very
noticeable effect, just not to leftists.


The most efficient facilities are the bike lanes, IMO. With that
said, the long rail-trail conversions can be great because RRs
required such a mild grade, generally speaking (not talking about cog
railways or Sierra RRs, etc.) The Springwater east makes getting out
to the country really easy. http://i.imgur.com/ps284.jpg But I'm not
riding out to the country every day. I'm riding to work on ordinary
roads, many with bike lanes and many without. Gotta be able to ride on
the roads.

The shared recreation trails are a pain though only for the first half
mile or so from the closest access point, and mainly on weekends.

I think the most ridiculous statement was that the bicycle paths all
have a parking lot at each end. The ones around here sure don't.


Ours often do, like the huge lot at Nimbus Hatchery in Rancho Cordova.
The hatchery closes at 3pm but they made sure that the gates will open
from the inside after that for split-commute cyclists and sports riders.

Some parking lots like those on the El Dorado Trail are a bit small,
especially on weekends.

Split-commutes increasingly popular here where people drive the part
that has no bike facilities and then hop into the saddle. I started
doing that myself, for longer valley runs lately and now got a bus/RT
pass. The buses run mostly empty and have two bike racks. Of course, it
would be bad if Murphy's law struck and both are occupied on the last
bus back.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 4:18:26 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 5:01:16 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:



Then why do you ridicule my preparedness when you know that in our area
MTB use is often required to get to certain places?


It is hard not to ridicule your preparedness when 99% of us find your measurements heavily exaggerated. I don't go for a ride with the idea that I might have to save someone from dying. Fortunately for us we don"t meet those people. All those idiots bump into you.

On the other hand I was stopped a couple of weeks ago by someone who had a flat and no spare or pump. I gave him a tube and spent a CO2 cartridge (I carry two of each). He insisted that I gave hime my bankaccount number so he could compensate me for the costs (6.5 euro for the tube and 1.50 euro for the CO2 cartridge). I'm still waiting. Next time he can use my phone to call a cab/his wife or he can walk...

Just hope that he paid it forward in some other way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_it_forward

6.5 euro for a tube and 1.50 euro a CO2 cartridge is about 2-3x what
those items cost in the U.S..

We have also cheaper alternatives, but I choose these;
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sc...8-Tyres-p1381/
the reason is not the weight but the pack size. I can store 3 of these in my saddle bag together with 3 CO2 cartridges.

The cartridges are indeed expensive:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/To...5-Pack-p22030/
On average I use 3-5 per season.

Lou

On 7/18/2018 7:39 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 4:18:26 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 5:01:16 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:



Then why do you ridicule my preparedness when you know that in our area
MTB use is often required to get to certain places?


It is hard not to ridicule your preparedness when 99% of us find your measurements heavily exaggerated. I don't go for a ride with the idea that I might have to save someone from dying. Fortunately for us we don"t meet those people. All those idiots bump into you.

On the other hand I was stopped a couple of weeks ago by someone who had a flat and no spare or pump. I gave him a tube and spent a CO2 cartridge (I carry two of each). He insisted that I gave hime my bankaccount number so he could compensate me for the costs (6.5 euro for the tube and 1.50 euro for the CO2 cartridge). I'm still waiting. Next time he can use my phone to call a cab/his wife or he can walk...

Just hope that he paid it forward in some other way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_it_forward

6.5 euro for a tube and 1.50 euro a CO2 cartridge is about 2-3x what
those items cost in the U.S..

We have also cheaper alternatives, but I choose these;
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sc...8-Tyres-p1381/
the reason is not the weight but the pack size. I can store 3 of these in my saddle bag together with 3 CO2 cartridges.

I now buy only Schwalbe tubes and tires, but I haven't bought the
Extralight tubes which are more expensive. 6.50 Euro is about right.

The cartridges are indeed expensive:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/To...5-Pack-p22030/
On average I use 3-5 per season.

I SPIT on C02 cartridges. I bought a mini pump small enough to fit in a
seat bag.
https://cycletechreview.com/2016/reviews/ohuhu-mini-pump-review/.
Actually bought a bunch of them when they were available for around $15.

sms writes:

I think the most ridiculous statement was that the bicycle paths all
have a parking lot at each end. The ones around here sure don't. There
are parking lots nearby some of the access points, in corporate
locations, shopping areas, parks, and condo or apartment complexes,
but these were not added for people to drive to the trail and
park. The one I know of that does have parking lots along the way
specifically for trail users is Sawyer Camp trail, though the parking
lots are not at both ends, the northern end of the trail has no
parking lot, though there is street parking close by.

Different worlds, I guess. Where to put the parking lots is a major
bone of contention for any proposed MUP around here. Nothing freezes
the cockles of a New Englander's heart like thinking that someone,
somewhere is parking at his expense, or that good for nothing bike-rack
toting cars might clog up his business lot to no commercial purpose.

--

Duane writes:

On 17/07/2018 6:46 PM, Joerg wrote:

In the US we have a much nastier habit among weight weenie cyclists
who probably find the weight of a paper tissue unbearable. So they
don't carry any. When the nose gets plugged they press a finger
against one side and let off a "snot rocket", then against the other
for missile #2. I was almost hit by one when pulling out to pass a
cyclist. It's disgusting.


Yes, I'm sure it's the weight of the tissue that prevents these
cyclists from using them. Maybe it's some guy coming up behind them
with the tunes blaring and the bright headlight that invokes this
behavior...

I would much rather see the occasional tiny blob of snot on the road
instead of blowing tissues. How and from where does one fish a dry
tissue when riding along? Think of the trees, for God's sake.

--

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 8:21:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 7:39 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 4:18:26 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 5:01:16 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:



Then why do you ridicule my preparedness when you know that in our area
MTB use is often required to get to certain places?


It is hard not to ridicule your preparedness when 99% of us find your measurements heavily exaggerated. I don't go for a ride with the idea that I might have to save someone from dying. Fortunately for us we don"t meet those people. All those idiots bump into you.

On the other hand I was stopped a couple of weeks ago by someone who had a flat and no spare or pump. I gave him a tube and spent a CO2 cartridge (I carry two of each). He insisted that I gave hime my bankaccount number so he could compensate me for the costs (6.5 euro for the tube and 1.50 euro for the CO2 cartridge). I'm still waiting. Next time he can use my phone to call a cab/his wife or he can walk...

Just hope that he paid it forward in some other way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_it_forward

6.5 euro for a tube and 1.50 euro a CO2 cartridge is about 2-3x what
those items cost in the U.S..

We have also cheaper alternatives, but I choose these;
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sc...8-Tyres-p1381/
the reason is not the weight but the pack size. I can store 3 of these in my saddle bag together with 3 CO2 cartridges.

I now buy only Schwalbe tubes and tires, but I haven't bought the
Extralight tubes which are more expensive. 6.50 Euro is about right.

The cartridges are indeed expensive:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/To...5-Pack-p22030/
On average I use 3-5 per season.

I SPIT on C02 cartridges. I bought a mini pump small enough to fit in a
seat bag.
https://cycletechreview.com/2016/reviews/ohuhu-mini-pump-review/.
Actually bought a bunch of them when they were available for around $15.

I spit on tiny clown pumps -- no, I mean it. Sometimes the pump-handle/piston needs lubrication. I prefer the hose models, but all of them are a PITA and require about 200 strokes to get a tire up to pressure.

I also carry CO2 cartridges and used both the pump and the cartridges last weekend due to a flat-fest with my son. I buy cheap cartridges in bulk from Amazon. Yes, the environmental impact of steel cartridges is bad . . . but they're so convenient! I scoffed at them until I started using them, but I would not go with CO2 alone. I always carry a pump.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 18/07/2018 12:03 PM, Radey Shouman wrote:
Duane writes:

On 17/07/2018 6:46 PM, Joerg wrote:

In the US we have a much nastier habit among weight weenie cyclists
who probably find the weight of a paper tissue unbearable. So they
don't carry any. When the nose gets plugged they press a finger
against one side and let off a "snot rocket", then against the other
for missile #2. I was almost hit by one when pulling out to pass a
cyclist. It's disgusting.


Yes, I'm sure it's the weight of the tissue that prevents these
cyclists from using them. Maybe it's some guy coming up behind them
with the tunes blaring and the bright headlight that invokes this
behavior...

I would much rather see the occasional tiny blob of snot on the road
instead of blowing tissues. How and from where does one fish a dry
tissue when riding along? Think of the trees, for God's sake.


Yeah, but you don't live "out there" where things get really hairy.
You're probably only riding in the pacific traffic on Comm Ave...

On 18/07/2018 12:15 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 8:21:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 7:39 AM, wrote:
On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 4:18:26 PM UTC+2, sms wrote:
On 7/18/2018 12:35 AM, wrote:
On Tuesday, July 17, 2018 at 5:01:16 PM UTC+2, Joerg wrote:



Then why do you ridicule my preparedness when you know that in our area
MTB use is often required to get to certain places?


It is hard not to ridicule your preparedness when 99% of us find your measurements heavily exaggerated. I don't go for a ride with the idea that I might have to save someone from dying. Fortunately for us we don"t meet those people. All those idiots bump into you.

On the other hand I was stopped a couple of weeks ago by someone who had a flat and no spare or pump. I gave him a tube and spent a CO2 cartridge (I carry two of each). He insisted that I gave hime my bankaccount number so he could compensate me for the costs (6.5 euro for the tube and 1.50 euro for the CO2 cartridge). I'm still waiting. Next time he can use my phone to call a cab/his wife or he can walk...

Just hope that he paid it forward in some other way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pay_it_forward

6.5 euro for a tube and 1.50 euro a CO2 cartridge is about 2-3x what
those items cost in the U.S..

We have also cheaper alternatives, but I choose these;
https://www.bike-components.de/en/Sc...8-Tyres-p1381/
the reason is not the weight but the pack size. I can store 3 of these in my saddle bag together with 3 CO2 cartridges.

I now buy only Schwalbe tubes and tires, but I haven't bought the
Extralight tubes which are more expensive. 6.50 Euro is about right.

The cartridges are indeed expensive:
https://www.bike-components.de/en/To...5-Pack-p22030/
On average I use 3-5 per season.

I SPIT on C02 cartridges. I bought a mini pump small enough to fit in a
seat bag.
https://cycletechreview.com/2016/reviews/ohuhu-mini-pump-review/.
Actually bought a bunch of them when they were available for around $15.

I spit on tiny clown pumps -- no, I mean it. Sometimes the pump-handle/piston needs lubrication. I prefer the hose models, but all of them are a PITA and require about 200 strokes to get a tire up to pressure.

I also carry CO2 cartridges and used both the pump and the cartridges last weekend due to a flat-fest with my son. I buy cheap cartridges in bulk from Amazon. Yes, the environmental impact of steel cartridges is bad . . . but they're so convenient! I scoffed at them until I started using them, but I would not go with CO2 alone. I always carry a pump.

Same here. I use the pump to form the tube and then for backup.

The guy reviewing that pump says 3 minutes pumping to 80 psi and 5
minutes to 100 psi. That's not so bad. My hand pump is not that good.
Maybe I'll check it out.

The problem with the hose models is some of them unscrew the valve when
you unscrew the pump. Not sure what that's about.

On 7/18/2018 9:00 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
sms writes:

I think the most ridiculous statement was that the bicycle paths all
have a parking lot at each end. The ones around here sure don't. There
are parking lots nearby some of the access points, in corporate
locations, shopping areas, parks, and condo or apartment complexes,
but these were not added for people to drive to the trail and
park. The one I know of that does have parking lots along the way
specifically for trail users is Sawyer Camp trail, though the parking
lots are not at both ends, the northern end of the trail has no
parking lot, though there is street parking close by.

Different worlds, I guess. Where to put the parking lots is a major
bone of contention for any proposed MUP around here. Nothing freezes
the cockles of a New Englander's heart like thinking that someone,
somewhere is parking at his expense, or that good for nothing bike-rack
toting cars might clog up his business lot to no commercial purpose.

One of our favorite rides is to start in Seaside, CA and ride to Carmel.
Part of the route is on a very popular MUP, which is mostly used by
cyclists except for the part that goes through the Fisherman's Wharf
area of Monterey.

We do drive there. There is no parking lot for the trail in Seaside, but
there is plenty of street parking near most of the access points, and
the shopping center not far from the beginning doesn't seem to mind if
you park in the more remote sections of the lot.

Even the popular Sawyer Camp Trail in San Mateo doesn't really have a
parking lot that you drive into, they just carved out some limited
street parking on the shoulders of Skyline Boulevard and Crystal Springs
Road. It's a very popular area with not nearly enough parking.
https://goo.gl/maps/6xn95KHvx6y.

On 7/18/2018 9:15 AM, jbeattie wrote:

snip

I also carry CO2 cartridges and used both the pump and the cartridges last weekend due to a flat-fest with my son. I buy cheap cartridges in bulk from Amazon. Yes, the environmental impact of steel cartridges is bad . . . but they're so convenient! I scoffed at them until I started using them, but I would not go with CO2 alone. I always carry a pump.

You are such a weight weenie that you would not even consider a proper
CO2 inflation system that doesn't use those environmentally destructive
tiny CO2 cartridges.

Look at this photo: http://oi64.tinypic.com/4jv09l.jpg. This is what
an environmentally conscious cyclist from Oregon would use.

Buy the following:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ICOKQMI
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0036ZDVNO
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DNKHYJ4
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0064OI77Y

Not only can you inflate a LOT of tires, you can also prepare a
refreshing carbonated beverage. One CO2 refill of this tank will last
you years. You can be the hero when someone has a flat tire.

There are also 5 lb, 10 lb, and 50 lb CO2 tanks available, but I think
that you'll find that a 20 lb tank is the best compromise for weight
versus volume.