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#142
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Shimano Headset
On Tue, 16 May 2017 18:56:39 +0700, John B.
wrote: On Mon, 15 May 2017 21:39:57 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 15 May 2017 14:48:09 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:44:46 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote: Snipped That would do. I think Joerg is a special case and could use a tool and some master links because he breaks chains. If you don't break chains . . . I've broken a couple of chains because I messed up reassembly or, in one case, I had an odd shift on to the big ring and up-shift, and the quick-link snapped open. I probably side-loaded the chain in some odd way. I had no chain tool, but I was close enough to home that I could scooter until my wife came to pick me up. I broke one chain in the middle of nowhere, but I was on tour and had a chain tool. Another mis-assembled chain broke on the way to work, but I was close enough to work to scooter the last bit, and then I bought a cheap chain tool at lunch. The bad part was dealing with a greasy chain in my backpack. -- Jay Beattie. Indeed does Joerg appear to be a special case. However, if I experienced the number of problems/reakages that he does then I'd be carrying a pretty comprehensive repar kit with tools and parts that I'd most likely need. MAybe what Joerg needs to do is fix up a method of towing another bike behind the one that he rides and that way when one bike breaks something major he can then rather than having to walk 20+ miles back to civilization he could just ride the extra bike back and tow the werecked one behind it. Cheers Perhaps he just needs a better bike. Sounds like he's riding a "flying pigeon". Those things would break if you looked at them wrong from 50 feet. Goodness, there must be a lot of disappointed people. After all Flying Pigeon sold more than 500 million PA 2 bicycles since 1950, and they are still in business. The PA 2 model has, as of 2007, sold more then any other any other model of vehicle. Can you imagine all those broken hearted owners weeping over their broken bicycles? Think of it, nearly ten percent of the world's population, in 2007, with the tears dripping off their chin because their pigeon broke. They didn't stand up well in Zambia.Perhaps it was assembly problems, but I found if tou loc-tited or safety wired everything (or as Zambian bike mechanics would do, crimp the end of the thread with a vice-grips (or "mole" as they were known)) the partrs would actually stay on - but that didn't help the welds that let go. |
#143
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Shimano Headset
On Tue, 16 May 2017 18:56:39 +0700, John B.
wrote: On Tue, 16 May 2017 00:16:10 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 16 May 2017 10:18:48 +0700, John B. wrote: On Mon, 15 May 2017 14:48:09 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:44:46 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote: Snipped That would do. I think Joerg is a special case and could use a tool and some master links because he breaks chains. If you don't break chains . . . I've broken a couple of chains because I messed up reassembly or, in one case, I had an odd shift on to the big ring and up-shift, and the quick-link snapped open. I probably side-loaded the chain in some odd way. I had no chain tool, but I was close enough to home that I could scooter until my wife came to pick me up. I broke one chain in the middle of nowhere, but I was on tour and had a chain tool. Another mis-assembled chain broke on the way to work, but I was close enough to work to scooter the last bit, and then I bought a cheap chain tool at lunch. The bad part was dealing with a greasy chain in my backpack. -- Jay Beattie. Indeed does Joerg appear to be a special case. However, if I experienced the number of problems/reakages that he does then I'd be carrying a pretty comprehensive repar kit with tools and parts that I'd most likely need. MAybe what Joerg needs to do is fix up a method of towing another bike behind the one that he rides and that way when one bike breaks something major he can then rather than having to walk 20+ miles back to civilization he could just ride the extra bike back and tow the werecked one behind it. Cheers I can only say that although I rarely, based on distances cycled, have a flat I carry a spare tube and patch kit and while I even less frequently break a chain I still carry a chain tool and a couple of chain links. Strange though, although I've had far fewer bike crashes than flat tires everyone says "wear a helmet" :-) Generally speeking a flat or broken chain won't kill you. Generally speaking neither will a bike accident. While true that these numbers don't come from the U.S., I would suggest that they are indicative of bicycle accidents. Their report http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/adv...facts-figures/ Shows that in 2014 there were 21,287 reported bicycle accidents of which some 17,773 were only slightly injured. Given that the numbers are only the accidents that were reported the report estimates that total accidents may well be twice the numbers shown. In short it appears that the vast majority of bicycle accidents do not result in death and the article seems to indicate that perhaps a half of all bike accidents are so minor as to require no medical attention at all. Correct - but what of the other 4500? How severe were they? and how many either were not severe because of a helmet, or could have had reduced severity if a helmet was worn. 4500 injuries requiring hospitalization isn't trivial NOTE - I am NOT saying cycling is a "dangerous" endeavour per se -but there are risks that CAN be mitigated. |
#144
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Shimano Headset
On Tue, 16 May 2017 07:38:12 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/16/2017 6:56 AM, John B. wrote: On Mon, 15 May 2017 21:39:57 -0400, wrote: On Mon, 15 May 2017 14:48:09 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:44:46 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote: Snipped That would do. I think Joerg is a special case and could use a tool and some master links because he breaks chains. If you don't break chains . . . I've broken a couple of chains because I messed up reassembly or, in one case, I had an odd shift on to the big ring and up-shift, and the quick-link snapped open. I probably side-loaded the chain in some odd way. I had no chain tool, but I was close enough to home that I could scooter until my wife came to pick me up. I broke one chain in the middle of nowhere, but I was on tour and had a chain tool. Another mis-assembled chain broke on the way to work, but I was close enough to work to scooter the last bit, and then I bought a cheap chain tool at lunch. The bad part was dealing with a greasy chain in my backpack. -- Jay Beattie. Indeed does Joerg appear to be a special case. However, if I experienced the number of problems/reakages that he does then I'd be carrying a pretty comprehensive repar kit with tools and parts that I'd most likely need. MAybe what Joerg needs to do is fix up a method of towing another bike behind the one that he rides and that way when one bike breaks something major he can then rather than having to walk 20+ miles back to civilization he could just ride the extra bike back and tow the werecked one behind it. Cheers Perhaps he just needs a better bike. Sounds like he's riding a "flying pigeon". Those things would break if you looked at them wrong from 50 feet. Goodness, there must be a lot of disappointed people. After all Flying Pigeon sold more than 500 million PA 2 bicycles since 1950, and they are still in business. The PA 2 model has, as of 2007, sold more then any other any other model of vehicle. Can you imagine all those broken hearted owners weeping over their broken bicycles? Think of it, nearly ten percent of the world's population, in 2007, with the tears dripping off their chin because their pigeon broke. Then again Trabants enjoyed something like a 97% market share in DDR. " In a world of blind men, the one eyed man is king" |
#145
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Shimano Headset
On 5/16/2017 9:59 AM, AMuzi wrote:
There is a window within which a helmet would decelerate the brain to sub-damage impact forces and a range within which abrasions/lacerations/contusions will be mitigated. There are points below which a helmet wasn't necessary and above which useless. That said, people differ in their analyses of those risks, frequencies, mitigation ranges etc. I cannot agree with you categorically that a helmet is useless in every case. The concept of a window of usefulness seems reasonable. I don't think anyone doubts that under certain circumstances, a helmet can prevent abrasions, lacerations and contusions. However, I think the window of usefulness is much smaller than people have been led to believe. At the lower end, it's made smaller by the fact that it's preventing only minor surface injury. IOW, there must be many helmet hits that would have been near misses, or at worst slight bumps and scratches. Personally, I suspect those account for most of the "My helmet saved me!!!" stories. (And many of those would have been protected by Guy Chapman's "wooly hat," which he humorously claimed "saved his life.") At the upper end, of course there are linear impacts beyond a helmet's protective capacity. But I think it's likely that helmets can impose rotational acceleration which is more damaging than with a bare head. I think there are very good evolutionary reasons that we have hair (well, some of us still do!) and scalps which are loosely attached to the skull and well lubricated. Yes, it can be messy and scary when that mechanism gets activated by a glancing blow; but I suspect it's a protective mechanism that to some degree is thwarted by a helmet. As mentioned upthread, bicycle concussions are way up, not way down, since the surge in helmet popularity. The increase is so large that I can't believe it's due only to increased reporting. (And I've not heard of a similar increase in reported pedestrian concussions during that time span.) If the "window of usefulness" were very large, we'd see significant drops in bike concussions and other TBI. However, let's keep in mind that bike concussions have _never_ been very common compared to other sources' concussions. Any objective look at sources of TBI shows that the great risk that helmeteers portray is a myth. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#146
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Shimano Headset
On 5/15/2017 11:51 PM, Barry Beams wrote:
I would be dead twice because the two helmet crackers I had would have both likely been fatal if I didn't have a helmet on. It is amazing, isn't it. Researchers estimate only one bike fatality for over ten million miles ridden in the U.S. Out of over 100 million cyclists, only about 800 die every year. By any measure, bike fatalities are incredibly, incredibly rare, and that's always been true. But lives saved by helmets are so incredibly, amazingly common! There must be thousands of such stories every year! Someone must be mistaken. Who could it possibly be? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#147
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Shimano Headset
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#148
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Shimano Headset
On 5/16/2017 12:13 AM, wrote:
On Mon, 15 May 2017 22:57:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 5/15/2017 10:41 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote: The overconfidence and "bigger hit area" arguments I accept as arguments, however how it plays out in the data who knows. However the comparisons over time I don't know as there might be many things changing during that time and it is very difficult to single out what leads to what and what doesn't influence. Also comparing bike and pedestrian accidents aren't the same things with many different factors involved. It would be better if there were stats like this: this year, there has been x accidents. Of those, h(x) involved severe head injuries. How many bikers in h(x) used helmets? None of this is dead simple. There are always confounding factors. In my view, even what you propose does not tell the whole story, or allow for a perfect decision. Why? Because your proposed stats could be gathered for any activity; yet people think about those things only for helmets on bicyclists and motorcyclists. The links I gave previously covered MUCH more than cycling. You obviously did not read them. Take a look again at http://www.bhsi.org/stats.htm#bikevsother From the American Association of Neurological Surgeons The following 20 sports/recreational activities represent the categories contributing to the highest number of estimated head injuries treated in U.S. hospital emergency rooms in 2009. •Cycling: 85,389 •Football: 46,948 •Baseball and Softball: 38,394 •Basketball: 34,692 •Water Sports (Diving, Scuba Diving, Surfing, Swimming, Water Polo, Water Skiing, Water Tubing): 28,716 •Powered Recreational Vehicles (ATVs, Dune Buggies, Go-Carts, Mini bikes, Off-road): 26,606 •Soccer: 24,184 •Skateboards/Scooters: 23,114 •Fitness/Exercise/Health Club: 18,012 •Winter Sports (Skiing, Sledding, Snowboarding, Snowmobiling): 16,948 •Horseback Riding: 14,466 •Gymnastics/Dance/Cheerleading: 10,223 •Golf: 10,035 •Hockey: 8,145 •Other Ball Sports and Balls, Unspecified: 6,883 •Trampolines: 5,919 •Rugby/Lacrosse: 5,794 •Roller and Inline Skating: 3,320 •Ice Skating: 4,608 The top 10 sports-related head-injury categories among children ages 14 and younger: •Cycling: 40,272 •Football: 21,878 •Baseball and Softball: 18,246 •Basketball: 14,952 •Skateboards/Scooters: 14,783 •Water Sports: 12,843 •Soccer: 8,392 •Powered Recreational Vehicles: 6,818 •Winter Sports: 6,750 •Trampolines: 5,025 *Note: Reported incidence is known to be significantly underreported (up to 50%, McCrea Clin J Sports med 13:13-17, 2004) and do not reflect those that are treated by family doctors or other para-medical professionals. These are just a few of the information available from www.helmets.org. OK, and look up the definition of "head injury." After decades of propaganda and deliberate conflation, most people think "head injury" and "brain injury" are equivalent. But they are not. "Head injury" usually refers to any injury at all above the neck; in other words, the numbers above are _not_ concussions, TBI, or brain injury. Almost all are minor surface injuries. (One infamous paper on the topic specifically counted scratched ears as "head injuries.") So while the count for bicycling looks high, what's being counted are not the scary "head injuries" that actually affect people's lives. "Head injury" does not equal "brain injury," despite deliberate attempts to confuse the two. Next: Why is bicycling the top "sport" listed there? One reason is they omitted another "sport" with many times more TBI (and yes, I am now focusing on TBI, not on "head injuries.") The table omitted the "sport" of walking! What's that you say? Walking isn't a "sport"? Precisely! And neither is bicycling! Bicycling is tops in that count only because kids use bicycles as playthings in their drive. Vacationers use bicycles to slowly cruise boardwalks. Messengers use bicycles to deliver packages. Teenagers use bicycles to get to friends' houses. Commuters use bicycles to get to work. People use bicycles to get to shops. Bicycles are used for lots of non-sport reasons. Yes, there is _some_ use of bikes in push-yourself-hard competitive work, just as there is some competitive walking and running. But almost everyone walking or even running is not competing in a sport, just as almost everyone bicycling is not competing in a sport. And please pay attention to this: THE AMOUNT OF TIME SPENT BICYCLING OR WALKING IS HUGE compared to any other "sport." Bicycling and walking have large counts not because they are dangerous; they have large counts because they are so incredibly popular, and they are FAR more than mere "sports." It's foolish to put bicycling in a comparative table of sports. But if you insist on doing so, it's only fair to put the "sport" of walking there too. It will at least show how silly the ranking is. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#149
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Shimano Headset
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#150
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Shimano Headset
On 5/16/2017 11:02 AM, wrote:
On Tue, 16 May 2017 18:56:39 +0700, John B. wrote: On Tue, 16 May 2017 00:16:10 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 16 May 2017 10:18:48 +0700, John B. wrote: On Mon, 15 May 2017 14:48:09 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 4:44:46 PM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote: Snipped That would do. I think Joerg is a special case and could use a tool and some master links because he breaks chains. If you don't break chains . . . I've broken a couple of chains because I messed up reassembly or, in one case, I had an odd shift on to the big ring and up-shift, and the quick-link snapped open. I probably side-loaded the chain in some odd way. I had no chain tool, but I was close enough to home that I could scooter until my wife came to pick me up. I broke one chain in the middle of nowhere, but I was on tour and had a chain tool. Another mis-assembled chain broke on the way to work, but I was close enough to work to scooter the last bit, and then I bought a cheap chain tool at lunch. The bad part was dealing with a greasy chain in my backpack. -- Jay Beattie. Indeed does Joerg appear to be a special case. However, if I experienced the number of problems/reakages that he does then I'd be carrying a pretty comprehensive repar kit with tools and parts that I'd most likely need. MAybe what Joerg needs to do is fix up a method of towing another bike behind the one that he rides and that way when one bike breaks something major he can then rather than having to walk 20+ miles back to civilization he could just ride the extra bike back and tow the werecked one behind it. Cheers I can only say that although I rarely, based on distances cycled, have a flat I carry a spare tube and patch kit and while I even less frequently break a chain I still carry a chain tool and a couple of chain links. Strange though, although I've had far fewer bike crashes than flat tires everyone says "wear a helmet" :-) Generally speeking a flat or broken chain won't kill you. Generally speaking neither will a bike accident. While true that these numbers don't come from the U.S., I would suggest that they are indicative of bicycle accidents. Their report http://www.rospa.com/road-safety/adv...facts-figures/ Shows that in 2014 there were 21,287 reported bicycle accidents of which some 17,773 were only slightly injured. Given that the numbers are only the accidents that were reported the report estimates that total accidents may well be twice the numbers shown. In short it appears that the vast majority of bicycle accidents do not result in death and the article seems to indicate that perhaps a half of all bike accidents are so minor as to require no medical attention at all. Correct - but what of the other 4500? How severe were they? and how many either were not severe because of a helmet, or could have had reduced severity if a helmet was worn. 4500 injuries requiring hospitalization isn't trivial NOTE - I am NOT saying cycling is a "dangerous" endeavour per se -but there are risks that CAN be mitigated. There are risks that can be mitigated in every activity. There are far more cases of serious TBI in total, or per mile traveled, among pedestrians than among cyclists. Why is only bicycling getting the label of a brain injury risk? Why not all the other activities that actually cause roughly 99% of America's brain injuries? -- - Frank Krygowski |
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