Bontrager Select Wheels - cracked Rims

G'day All,

I purcahsed a new Trek 1400 in october last year.

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the LBS and
got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and that it is
unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to ascertain warranty
issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will keep me posted.

I looked at the cracks yesterday and my god they were everywhere although i
didn.t notice them when fixing a puincture the day before! My question to
the group is about their experiences whit this wheelset. I did a google
search and it seems that some Bontrager wheelsets have a symptom of cracks
as well as overtensioned spokes. My whee/bike has been reguraly serviced by
LBS in the time i have had it.

Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i prevent it
happening again or is it a suck and see?

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel set?.
For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they weight is coming
off. I can also do a mean sprint!

Cheers

Beanzy

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the LBS
and
got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and that it is
unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to ascertain warranty
issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will keep me posted.

Rim cracks at the spoke/rim interface are not unknown, and we've seen some
in the model of wheel found on your bike, as well as wheels from other
vendors too. Assuming reasonable mileage and lack of abuse (dents etc), your
wheel will most likely be replaced or rebuilt with a new rim. Bontrager is
very good at taking care of things that shouldn't have happened.

Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i prevent it
happening again or is it a suck and see?

It's quite possibly a manufacturing issue, in which case there's no need for
you to try to do something to keep it from happening... unless your ride
too-narrow tires, or don't inflate them enough, or like to jump curbs etc.

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel set?.
For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they weight is
coming
off. I can also do a mean sprint!

At 120kg, you're the guy who's going to discover any possible issues with
just about any product! Especially with a "mean sprint." Main thing I'd make
sure of is to run a 25c tire (possibly even 28c) and definitely *not* a 23c.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Beanzy" wrote in message
...
G'day All,

I purcahsed a new Trek 1400 in october last year.

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the LBS
and
got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and that it is
unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to ascertain warranty
issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will keep me posted.

I looked at the cracks yesterday and my god they were everywhere although
i
didn.t notice them when fixing a puincture the day before! My question to
the group is about their experiences whit this wheelset. I did a google
search and it seems that some Bontrager wheelsets have a symptom of cracks
as well as overtensioned spokes. My whee/bike has been reguraly serviced
by
LBS in the time i have had it.

Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i prevent it
happening again or is it a suck and see?

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel set?.
For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they weight is
coming
off. I can also do a mean sprint!

Cheers

Beanzy

Beanzy wrote:
G'day All,

I purcahsed a new Trek 1400 in october last year.

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the LBS and
got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and that it is
unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to ascertain warranty
issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will keep me posted.

I looked at the cracks yesterday and my god they were everywhere although i
didn.t notice them when fixing a puincture the day before! My question to
the group is about their experiences whit this wheelset. I did a google
search and it seems that some Bontrager wheelsets have a symptom of cracks
as well as overtensioned spokes. My whee/bike has been reguraly serviced by
LBS in the time i have had it.

Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i prevent it
happening again or is it a suck and see?

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel set?.
For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they weight is coming
off. I can also do a mean sprint!

Cheers

Beanzy

I suspect fatigue. How many miles on the wheel?

Beanzy wrote:
G'day All,

I purcahsed a new Trek 1400 in october last year.

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the LBS and
got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and that it is
unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to ascertain warranty
issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will keep me posted.

I looked at the cracks yesterday and my god they were everywhere although i
didn.t notice them when fixing a puincture the day before! My question to
the group is about their experiences whit this wheelset. I did a google
search and it seems that some Bontrager wheelsets have a symptom of cracks
as well as overtensioned spokes. My whee/bike has been reguraly serviced by
LBS in the time i have had it.

Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i prevent it
happening again or is it a suck and see?

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel set?.
For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they weight is coming
off. I can also do a mean sprint!

Cheers

Beanzy

260 pounds and a sales clone looked at you and still put you onto these
wheels....poor form, to say the least. Glad you are riding and glad the
weight is coming off but no Bontrager wheels would work for you,
regardless of what Mike J, Trek dealer extrordinire, , will say. They
need to build you a set of wheels appropriate to you and your riding.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
news
I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the LBS
and
got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and that it is
unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to ascertain warranty
issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will keep me posted.

Rim cracks at the spoke/rim interface are not unknown, and we've seen some
in the model of wheel found on your bike, as well as wheels from other
vendors too. Assuming reasonable mileage and lack of abuse (dents etc),
your wheel will most likely be replaced or rebuilt with a new rim.
Bontrager is very good at taking care of things that shouldn't have
happened.

Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i prevent it
happening again or is it a suck and see?

It's quite possibly a manufacturing issue, in which case there's no need
for you to try to do something to keep it from happening... unless your
ride too-narrow tires, or don't inflate them enough, or like to jump curbs
etc.

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel set?.
For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they weight is
coming
off. I can also do a mean sprint!

At 120kg, you're the guy who's going to discover any possible issues with
just about any product! Especially with a "mean sprint." Main thing I'd
make sure of is to run a 25c tire (possibly even 28c) and definitely *not*
a 23c.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


Thanks for the info.

Wheels have done approx 2500 km (sorry us crazy Aussies use the metric
system) No kerb hopping/bunny hops or potholes (that i remember). I do run
23c tyres. i will consider your suggestions.

Beanzy


"Beanzy" wrote in message
...
G'day All,

I purcahsed a new Trek 1400 in october last year.

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the LBS
and
got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and that it is
unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to ascertain warranty
issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will keep me posted.

I looked at the cracks yesterday and my god they were everywhere although
i
didn.t notice them when fixing a puincture the day before! My question to
the group is about their experiences whit this wheelset. I did a google
search and it seems that some Bontrager wheelsets have a symptom of
cracks
as well as overtensioned spokes. My whee/bike has been reguraly serviced
by
LBS in the time i have had it.

Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i prevent it
happening again or is it a suck and see?

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel set?.
For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they weight is
coming
off. I can also do a mean sprint!

Cheers

Beanzy

Beanzy wrote:
G'day All,

I purcahsed a new Trek 1400 in october last year.

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the LBS and
got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and that it is
unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to ascertain warranty
issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will keep me posted.

I looked at the cracks yesterday and my god they were everywhere although i
didn.t notice them when fixing a puincture the day before!

are you certain that it's your wheel? strange things can happen in the
back of a darkened bike store.

My question to

the group is about their experiences whit this wheelset. I did a google
search and it seems that some Bontrager wheelsets have a symptom of cracks
as well as overtensioned spokes. My whee/bike has been reguraly serviced by
LBS in the time i have had it.

a lot of pre-built wheels get inexpertly "helped" by the lbs, and
subsequently have reliability problems. excess tension is a common
symptom of them, not so much the manufacturer.

if you're lucky enough to have these warranteed, and they send whole
wheels not just rims, ask that they be left alone! or if the rims are
replaced and the wheels rebuilt, check the spoke tension are within
manufacturer spec. get your lbs to show you the tool readings if
necessary. the park tools website has info on tension specs and this
may include your wheels. or contact bontrager direct to find out what
the numbers should be.

there's a common misconception out there, including on this group, that
"increasing spoke tension increases wheel strength". beyond basic
tension necessary to maintain wheel integrity and prevent spokes
slackening in use, increasing tension simply causes reliability
problems, just like the cracking you're experiencing.


Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i prevent it
happening again or is it a suck and see?

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel set?.
For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they weight is coming
off. I can also do a mean sprint!

Cheers

Beanzy

In article ,
jim beam wrote:

Beanzy wrote:
G'day All,

I purcahsed a new Trek 1400 in october last year.

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at
the LBS and got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked
and that it is unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to
ascertain warranty issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will
keep me posted.

I looked at the cracks yesterday and my god they were everywhere
although i didn.t notice them when fixing a puincture the day
before!

are you certain that it's your wheel? strange things can happen in
the back of a darkened bike store.

Interesting you should say that. It was my first thought as well.

My question to the group is about their experiences whit this
wheelset. I did a google search and it seems that some Bontrager
wheelsets have a symptom of cracks as well as overtensioned spokes.
My whee/bike has been reguraly serviced by LBS in the time i have
had it.

a lot of pre-built wheels get inexpertly "helped" by the lbs, and
subsequently have reliability problems. excess tension is a common
symptom of them, not so much the manufacturer.

if you're lucky enough to have these warranteed, and they send whole
wheels not just rims, ask that they be left alone! or if the rims
are replaced and the wheels rebuilt, check the spoke tension are
within manufacturer spec. get your lbs to show you the tool readings
if necessary. the park tools website has info on tension specs and
this may include your wheels. or contact bontrager direct to find
out what the numbers should be.

there's a common misconception out there, including on this group,
that "increasing spoke tension increases wheel strength". beyond
basic tension necessary to maintain wheel integrity and prevent
spokes slackening in use, increasing tension simply causes
reliability problems, just like the cracking you're experiencing.

Increasing spoke tension increases load bearing capacity with a given
number of spokes, or permits the use of fewer spokes for the same load
bearing capacity. But there's a practical threshold above with
increasing spoke tension provides no real benefit.

Has excess spoke tension actually been shown to cause cracking around
the spoke holes? Is there any evidence to support this claim? I have
seen this repeated multiple times by a few people, but my personal
experience with building wheels over the past 30 years shows no clear
correlation. The only correlations I have observed are anodized rims
and cracking failures around the spoke holes, combined with wheel dish
and cracking failures (I've never seen a front wheel fail in this way
nor a rear wheel with less than 5 mm dish, regardless of the rim); I've
seen no correlation between cracking and spoke thickness, cracking and
type of nipple eyelets or sockets, or cracking and spoke tension.

Wheels have done approx 2500 km (sorry us crazy Aussies use the metric
system) No kerb hopping/bunny hops or potholes (that i remember). I do run
23c tyres. i will consider your suggestions.

Beanzy

Obviously it's not the mileage, but you've got two "big" things going
against you. First, yes, get rid of those 23c tires!!! You're way too big
for that (even Peter might agree on that one). Second... an Aussie...
interesting thing I learned talking with tech & warranty guys. Australia has
the highest rate of warranty returns of anyplace on the planet. Seriously.
Apparently you guys ride hard (which is fine) on roads that are, well,
challenging might be the word. So essentially the lack of posers (people who
buy nice bikes just to have nice bikes and don't ride them much and so
obviously don't have many warranty issues) and tough roads is a combination
that will bring out the worst in things.

But seriously, let's get you off those 23c tires. I'm not saying your wheels
(actually, from experience, I'm sure it's only your rear wheel) wouldn't
have had an issue, but a larger tire is certainly kinder to them.

Note to Peter- the issue with rims cracking seems not closely related to
rider weight. We have some really big guys, who do lots of miles, with no
issues. And then you'll get some relatively-light guy or woman who doesn't
put in the killer mileage and runs into problems.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Beanzy" wrote in message
...

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
news
I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the LBS
and
got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and that it is
unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to ascertain warranty
issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will keep me posted.

Rim cracks at the spoke/rim interface are not unknown, and we've seen
some in the model of wheel found on your bike, as well as wheels from
other vendors too. Assuming reasonable mileage and lack of abuse (dents
etc), your wheel will most likely be replaced or rebuilt with a new rim.
Bontrager is very good at taking care of things that shouldn't have
happened.

Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i prevent
it
happening again or is it a suck and see?

It's quite possibly a manufacturing issue, in which case there's no need
for you to try to do something to keep it from happening... unless your
ride too-narrow tires, or don't inflate them enough, or like to jump
curbs etc.

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel
set?.
For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they weight is
coming
off. I can also do a mean sprint!

At 120kg, you're the guy who's going to discover any possible issues with
just about any product! Especially with a "mean sprint." Main thing I'd
make sure of is to run a 25c tire (possibly even 28c) and definitely
*not* a 23c.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


Thanks for the info.

Wheels have done approx 2500 km (sorry us crazy Aussies use the metric
system) No kerb hopping/bunny hops or potholes (that i remember). I do run
23c tyres. i will consider your suggestions.

Beanzy


"Beanzy" wrote in message
...
G'day All,

I purcahsed a new Trek 1400 in october last year.

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the LBS
and
got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and that it is
unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to ascertain warranty
issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will keep me posted.

I looked at the cracks yesterday and my god they were everywhere
although i
didn.t notice them when fixing a puincture the day before! My question
to
the group is about their experiences whit this wheelset. I did a google
search and it seems that some Bontrager wheelsets have a symptom of
cracks
as well as overtensioned spokes. My whee/bike has been reguraly serviced
by
LBS in the time i have had it.

Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i prevent
it
happening again or is it a suck and see?

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel
set?.
For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they weight is
coming
off. I can also do a mean sprint!

Cheers

Beanzy

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
Beanzy wrote:
G'day All,

I purcahsed a new Trek 1400 in october last year.

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at the
LBS and got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked and
that it is unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to
ascertain warranty issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will
keep me posted.

I looked at the cracks yesterday and my god they were everywhere
although i didn.t notice them when fixing a puincture the day
before! My question to the group is about their experiences whit
this wheelset. I did a google search and it seems that some
Bontrager wheelsets have a symptom of cracks as well as
overtensioned spokes. My whee/bike has been reguraly serviced by LBS
in the time i have had it.

Assuming that trek replace the wheel all is good, but how do i
prevent it happening again or is it a suck and see?

If they do not replace the wheel any recommendations on a new wheel
set?. For the record i am a "larger" rider approx 120kg but they
weight is coming off. I can also do a mean sprint!

Cheers

Beanzy

260 pounds and a sales clone looked at you and still put you onto
these wheels....poor form, to say the least. Glad you are riding and
glad the weight is coming off but no Bontrager wheels would work for
you, regardless of what Mike J, Trek dealer extrordinire, , will say.
They need to build you a set of wheels appropriate to you and your
riding.

Sounds more like the bike he bought came stock with those wheels than he was
"put on" them. I've beaten the absolute crap out of a pair of Bontrage Race
Lites for three years, and they're as true and smooth today as Day 1. The
Selects are a bit beefier -- and it does sound like the OP also thrashes
'em.

Sure, he can buy new wheels if he wants, but I'd get this one sorted out
(warranty or just rim replacement) and run at least 25s like Mike suggested.
Beat the crap out of 'em some more, and THEN buy a nice handbuilt set down
the road and turn these into rainy day jobs or something...

Bill S.

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,
jim beam wrote:


Beanzy wrote:

G'day All,

I purcahsed a new Trek 1400 in october last year.

I got a broken spoke on the weekend and dropped off the wheel at
the LBS and got a phone call later stating that the rim is cracked
and that it is unsafe to ride. The LBS was in contact with Trek to
ascertain warranty issues etc. The Trek rep wasnt in but they will
keep me posted.

I looked at the cracks yesterday and my god they were everywhere
although i didn.t notice them when fixing a puincture the day
before!

are you certain that it's your wheel? strange things can happen in
the back of a darkened bike store.


Interesting you should say that. It was my first thought as well.


My question to the group is about their experiences whit this
wheelset. I did a google search and it seems that some Bontrager
wheelsets have a symptom of cracks as well as overtensioned spokes.
My whee/bike has been reguraly serviced by LBS in the time i have
had it.

a lot of pre-built wheels get inexpertly "helped" by the lbs, and
subsequently have reliability problems. excess tension is a common
symptom of them, not so much the manufacturer.

if you're lucky enough to have these warranteed, and they send whole
wheels not just rims, ask that they be left alone! or if the rims
are replaced and the wheels rebuilt, check the spoke tension are
within manufacturer spec. get your lbs to show you the tool readings
if necessary. the park tools website has info on tension specs and
this may include your wheels. or contact bontrager direct to find
out what the numbers should be.

there's a common misconception out there, including on this group,
that "increasing spoke tension increases wheel strength". beyond
basic tension necessary to maintain wheel integrity and prevent
spokes slackening in use, increasing tension simply causes
reliability problems, just like the cracking you're experiencing.


Increasing spoke tension increases load bearing capacity

that assumes the onset of rim plasticity /immediately/ the spoke loses
tension. that is /far/ from the case.

with a given
number of spokes, or permits the use of fewer spokes for the same load
bearing capacity. But there's a practical threshold above with
increasing spoke tension provides no real benefit.

Has excess spoke tension actually been shown to cause cracking around
the spoke holes? Is there any evidence to support this claim? I have
seen this repeated multiple times by a few people, but my personal
experience with building wheels over the past 30 years shows no clear
correlation. The only correlations I have observed are anodized rims
and cracking failures around the spoke holes, combined with wheel dish
and cracking failures (I've never seen a front wheel fail in this way
nor a rear wheel with less than 5 mm dish, regardless of the rim); I've
seen no correlation between cracking and spoke thickness, cracking and
type of nipple eyelets or sockets, or cracking and spoke tension.

cracked rims on drive side spokes are regularly reported here. let's
analyze this: set aside that "wheel theory" here on r.b.t focuses on
"spoke tension only" and let's think about the "rim only" for a moment.

1. you have all load shared between the points at which the spokes
connect and the ground. i.e. local point loading can exceed that of the
average for the whole.

2. you have a piece of extruded aluminum alloy. that extruded alloy is
highly anisotropic, just like a piece of wood. like wood, that means it
has different properties in different directions, one of which being
fatigue in the transverse axis being much worse than in the longitudinal
axis.

if 1. approaches or even exceeds the transverse fatigue limit of 2. on
static load, then you add a fatigue loading cycle on top of that, you
get accelerated fatigue and therefore cracking much sooner than you
would at a lower static load. simple.

anodizing is a different story. yes, anodizing /can/ cause fatigue if
anodizing cracks. BUT since we see rim failure with cracking out of
axis with the radial "star" of anodizing cracking of a spoke hole,
anodizing is therefore NOT the weak link in the chain - the weaker
transverse fatigue properties of the extruded alloy are.

to summarize the effect of excess tension, wheel dish proves it. the
shallower the dish, the greater the increase in cyclic change in tension
on lateral load [honking up a hill], thus we see those rims crack more
often.