The sweet spot in biking

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 05:25:36 +1000, "DRS"
wrote:

"Badger_South" wrote in message

On 22 Oct 2004 09:05:35 -0700, (amh) wrote:

Running is different in that it doesn't react with the body. If you
take measures to reduce injury (stretch, wear proper shoes, don't
over do it, eat properly, etc) the body will adapt to the running
just fine.

I'd submit that stretching never prevented any injury, ever, but
probably caused a few, certainly if done cold before running.

Static stretching before exercise is worthless for reducing or preventing
injury, dynamic stretching is not.

What dynamic stretches do you do before biking? If you walked up to most
ppl and said 'go ahead and dynamic stretch out before your ride', they'd
bob down and touch their toes, and the advanced ones would cross their feet
and do it stiff legged, lol. But I agree; may be that the best 'dynamic'
stretches occur -on- the bike, and use the spinal twist - besides that some
kind of quad stretch, shoulder wiggle and wrist flap and shake is what I
do. I don't even quad stretch anymore. Obviously as a stretching -program-
to suppliment the bike would include hip flexors and neck and back
hamstring work, ilio-tibial stretch work if susceptible to that...

Other than that I probably tilt my giant Jimmy Neutron helmet head from
side to side..grin andjust cowboy mount my aluminium steed, and take off.
Oddly, I'm never sore from biking...now, -during- biking, I get transitory
numbness, hands, butt, etc.

Now some might say 'if you're not sore, you haven't ridden hard or long
enough', and no argument from that. I really expected to be a little sore
from my epic ride up Monticello, but, nope. Nada. (BTW I recorded that as
7-9 minutes. It was closer to 11-12 minutes - chronometer malfx)

Good point, though. I've touted Bryce's routine here before, I think.

-B

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:43:21 GMT, "B i l l S o r n s o n"
wrote:

Bill Baka wrote:
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:39:08 GMT, B i l l S o r n s o n
wrote:

Badger_South wrote:

There are two highs (ime) in running. One is the weird and wonderful
sensation where you go from being just about blown up at 90 minutes
in, and suddenly you are kicking ass and feel like you could run
forever...er, jog that is (6-7 min/mile pace)

I gotta call bull**** here, Badg. 6-7 minute/mile pace is hardly
"jogging" -- 9 minutes in much less 90! (Works out to a ~3-hour
marathon,
easily good enough to qualify for Boston if I'm not mistaken.)

Bill "you're not THAT super, man" S.


I was going to just watch all the flaming here but a 9 minute mile
is easy. I was in the Boy Scouts around 1960 (61?) and one of the
things we were taught was how to do a 9 minute mile as a group. It
was run slowly for xx seconds then walk for xx seconds and repeat
as needed, all day even. My group came in just 4 seconds under
9 minutes and nobody was even breathing that hard. What I have
noticed is that all the biking never gets me to a high and I wouldn't
want to be there anyway since if I got there I would probably
bliss out and crash. Different activities need different approaches.

For God's sake Bill learn to read. Badger was talking about 6-7 minute
miles *90 minutes* into a run. I said that pace was hardly "jogging" even
*9* minutes into a run, much less 90. I never mentioned 9-minute miles at
all. (It's just a coincidence that that was my pace no matter HOW long I
ran! )

Bill "slow and steady (may not win the race, but gets there)" S.

OK, that 90 was a misprint. Make that 60. My 10mile pace is well under 90
minutes and I got 8min/mile-ish times in the Lynchburg Marathon (which is
actually 10 miles).

Not to drag this on, but one of my talented running friends came by one day
when I went on my neighborhood route, which involves some decent little
hills, and which I was running at 7:30 pace, which felt fast to me. After
we got back to my house (8 miles), he says 'let's do it again!'. And the
guy ran it with me in his street clothes, fercryinoutloud. I'm standing
there steaming, and flushed, though not out of breath, and he looks like he
just walked back from the fridge after getting a beer.

I'm just saying, in my life, I've never 'run', I've only jogged. Those tall
lean skinny guys who come in 1st-10th in the regional 10Ks...now those guys
run. OK, I ran for the bus, once. ;-D

-B

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 02:30:17 GMT, "B i l l S o r n s o n"
wrote:

That's fine, but just remember that running ONE mile is very different from
running 5, 10, 15 or more miles. Kind of like the difference between a 5 km
time trial and a 165 km road race?

Bill "or something like that" S.

In the very beginning stages of training, at first, this seems true. But in
reality, most recreational joggers get warmed up at 3-4 miles and most
intermediate joggers do 6-10 miles per workout, and average 30-40 miles per
week. It took me about 3 years of more-or-less steady training to get to
this point. There's a pretty good break out at the end of year one-middle
of year two where your jogging transforms, iow, but most folks running in
their late 20s-30s are still feeling plenty slow at that 3 year point. I
never got to 'advanced', or tried any of the advanced workouts, and the
best I did was an informal 108-110 minute half-marathon time, and that felt
like slogging, lol.

Most intermediate 10K-ers will tell you that they don't even remember
running their first mile in a fun-run, and I've had many sub-seven minute
first miles in my 10Ks, and at my lightest (170) show 6:20 type times in
the first mile. We were in the back of the middle pack, typically,
intermittently chatting back and forth.

If I ever got to the marathon level, it would probably at the 4 hour mark,
b/c ppl fade pretty significantly at that distance, or, (better planning)
will start out at well below their 10K race pace (I'd do the first 5 miles
at 9-10 min per mile pace, for sure!) IOW, most 4 hour marathoners run
seven minute or better/mile times in 10Ks, for example.

-B

Badger_South wrote:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 02:30:17 GMT, "B i l l S o r n s o n"
wrote:

That's fine, but just remember that running ONE mile is very
different from running 5, 10, 15 or more miles. Kind of like the
difference between a 5 km time trial and a 165 km road race?

Bill "or something like that" S.

In the very beginning stages of
training,atfirst,thisseemstrue.Butin reality, most recreational
joggers get warmed up at 3-4 miles and most intermediate joggers do
6-10 miles per workout, and average 30-40 miles per week. It took me
about 3 years of more-or-less steady training to get to this point.
There's a pretty good break out at the end of year one-middle of year
two where your jogging transforms, iow, but most folks running in
their late 20s-30s are still feeling plenty slow at that 3 year
point. I never got to 'advanced', or tried any of the advanced
workouts, and the best I did was an informal 108-110 minute
half-marathon time, and that felt like slogging, lol.

Most intermediate 10K-ers will tell you that they don't even remember
running their first mile in a fun-run, and I've had many sub-seven
minute first miles in my 10Ks, and at my lightest (170) show 6:20
type times in the first mile. We were in the back of the middle pack,
typically, intermittently chatting back and forth.

If I ever got to the marathon level, it would probably at the 4 hour
mark, b/c ppl fade pretty significantly at that distance, or, (better
planning) will start out at well below their 10K race pace (I'd do
the first 5 miles at 9-10 min per mile pace, for sure!) IOW, most 4
hour marathoners run seven minute or better/mile times in 10Ks, for
example.

Sigh. My POINT to Bill Baka was that seeing how fast one can run ONE MILE
is totally different from one's minutes-per-mile pace on long (or even
long-ish) runs.

Bill "La Jolla Half Marathon in 2:02, IIRC" S.

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 04:20:34 GMT, "B i l l S o r n s o n"
wrote:


Sigh. My POINT to Bill Baka was that seeing how fast one can run ONE MILE
is totally different from one's minutes-per-mile pace on long (or even
long-ish) runs.

Bill "La Jolla Half Marathon in 2:02, IIRC" S.


Got that point right away. Not too shabby, 2:02. Probably some hills.

At an average 9.25mi/hr pace, you probably ran several 8 min miles
somewhere in there. If you're not feeling well by mile 12, one can easily
end up doing the survivor shuffle and dropping a min/mile. I'd predict at
least a 48 min 10K time off of this. Years of regular training? (just
curious).

-B

Badger_South wrote:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 04:20:34 GMT, "B i l l S o r n s o n"
wrote:


Sigh. My POINT to Bill Baka was that seeing how fast one can run
ONE MILE is totally different from one's minutes-per-mile pace on
long (or even long-ish) runs.

Bill "La Jolla Half Marathon in 2:02, IIRC" S.


Got that point right away. Not too shabby, 2:02. Probably some hills.

LJ Half is known as one of the toughest around. Includes a fun little jaunt
up the Torrey Pines Grade (note to self: measure distance next time I ride
it). Prolly only 1-1/2 to 2 miles, but quite steep.

At an average 9.25mi/hr pace, you probably ran several 8 min miles
somewhere in there. If you're not feeling well by mile 12, one can
easily end up doing the survivor shuffle and dropping a min/mile. I'd
predict at least a 48 min 10K time off of this. Years of regular
training? (just curious).

I had LOTS of problems that day (including gastro-in-the-bushes-testinal).
It was a cold, wet, windy, miserable morning (I remember my buddy calling at
like 4 am and saying he wanted to bail; told him I was doing it no matter
what). Still, 8.5 to 9-minute miles is pretty much my pace, race or no...
(I think I did a 10K in :47-something, but it was VERY flat! )

I'm no natural runner, by any means. 5-10, stocky frame (170 to 190
extremes). I began running with some friends, entered a 5K here and 10K
there, and then trained for a half. (Former heavy smoker, too.)

Began training for the St. George Marathon -- got up to 22 miles -- but
totally broke down before I could do it. Had stress fractures all over the
place -- ran America's Finest City (Half) with a bunch of 'em (very
painful), then pretty much gave it up. Turns out I have (had?) a condition
with calcium not being absorbed by my body -- it collected in my kidneys
instead of reaching blood -- so I got stones and broken bones! Nasty
combo...(since treated with meds; seems to be working.)

Bill "what was the question?" S.

Bill Baka wrote:
There are 4 LINUX groups that I am looking at for information
and this group has outposted all 4 of the LINUX combined.

*perk* Linux?

Seriously, do you get anything out of the Linux newsgroups?
I've gotten as many smarmy answers as informative ones.
On a couple of groups, if you don't ask a question the
"right" way, you will be subjected to insult (as if they
were born with a thorough knowledge of Linux...).

I was heavily into Linux 10 years ago, when it was brand new
and you had to do EVERYTHING the hard way -- none of these
handy X-based config tools, no no no -- and when I got back
into it recently after forgetting just about everything I
ever knew about it, it really made me wonder when the Linux
community turned into such a bunch of tight-@sses. Sheesh.

My husband says I get this peculiar half-scowl now when I
have to boot XP for something, hehe.

Now if they'd only make Snoods for Linux...

-km

--
Only cowards fight kids -- unidentified Moscow protester

http://community.webshots.com/user/blackrosequilts
proud to be owned by a yorkie

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:18:12 GMT, the black rose
wrote:

Bill Baka wrote:
There are 4 LINUX groups that I am looking at for information
and this group has outposted all 4 of the LINUX combined.

*perk* Linux?

Seriously, do you get anything out of the Linux newsgroups? I've
gotten as many smarmy answers as informative ones. On a couple of
groups, if you don't ask a question the "right" way, you will be
subjected to insult (as if they were born with a thorough knowledge of
Linux...).

I was heavily into Linux 10 years ago, when it was brand new and you had
to do EVERYTHING the hard way -- none of these handy X-based config
tools, no no no -- and when I got back into it recently after forgetting
just about everything I ever knew about it, it really made me wonder
when the Linux community turned into such a bunch of tight-@sses.
Sheesh.

My husband says I get this peculiar half-scowl now when I have to boot
XP for something, hehe.

Now if they'd only make Snoods for Linux...

-km

I know this is not the correct group but the 4 LINUX groups have more
people asking then answering. I am tryin to install Red Hat version 7
and have the first disk (1 of 2) installed and it now boots into the
Linux. The problem is the rpm files and other stuff that need to be
uncompressed and installed properly. FWIW the Linux boots with a screen
allowing me to go to DOS mode which then brings up my boot.ini that windows
2000 put there. At this point I have my choice of using Linux (if I ever
figure it out) Or windows 2000 (2 installations on different physical
hard drives, DOS (IBM DOS 2000, the last I know of) and I can go into
windows 3.1. I have 11 GB waiting for the Linux if I can get it to install.
I know, why not buy the latest? Money shortage until the high tech
recession
corrects itself and I get back into a nice high paying engineering job.

On topic, just to make this legal, I got a new Mongoose for my birthday
from
one of the neighbors whose kids I take riding, so I am not complaining.
More on that later.
Bill Baka


--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 06:41:04 GMT, B i l l S o r n s o n
wrote:

Badger_South wrote:
On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 04:20:34 GMT, "B i l l S o r n s o n"
wrote:


Sigh. My POINT to Bill Baka was that seeing how fast one can run
ONE MILE is totally different from one's minutes-per-mile pace on
long (or even long-ish) runs.

Bill "La Jolla Half Marathon in 2:02, IIRC" S.


Got that point right away. Not too shabby, 2:02. Probably some hills.

LJ Half is known as one of the toughest around. Includes a fun little
jaunt
up the Torrey Pines Grade (note to self: measure distance next time I
ride
it). Prolly only 1-1/2 to 2 miles, but quite steep.

At an average 9.25mi/hr pace, you probably ran several 8 min miles
somewhere in there. If you're not feeling well by mile 12, one can
easily end up doing the survivor shuffle and dropping a min/mile. I'd
predict at least a 48 min 10K time off of this. Years of regular
training? (just curious).

I had LOTS of problems that day (including
gastro-in-the-bushes-testinal).
It was a cold, wet, windy, miserable morning (I remember my buddy
calling at
like 4 am and saying he wanted to bail; told him I was doing it no matter
what). Still, 8.5 to 9-minute miles is pretty much my pace, race or
no...
(I think I did a 10K in :47-something, but it was VERY flat! )

I'm no natural runner, by any means. 5-10, stocky frame (170 to 190
extremes). I began running with some friends, entered a 5K here and 10K
there, and then trained for a half. (Former heavy smoker, too.)

Began training for the St. George Marathon -- got up to 22 miles -- but
totally broke down before I could do it. Had stress fractures all over
the
place -- ran America's Finest City (Half) with a bunch of 'em (very
painful), then pretty much gave it up. Turns out I have (had?) a
condition
with calcium not being absorbed by my body -- it collected in my kidneys
instead of reaching blood -- so I got stones and broken bones! Nasty
combo...(since treated with meds; seems to be working.)

Bill "what was the question?" S.


OK, you guys have me, but I was wondering what these runners do for
hydration and food energy. It seems like it would be a lot harder
to drink or eat while running. I have a hard time just getting my
water bottles out and back in again while trying not to run off the
road. Maybe I'm a klutz (not likely) or there is a better way to
hold water bottles. I can only run for about 2 miles anyway since
I do not have a pair of dedicated running shoes, 5 pair of sneakers
and 2 leather 'job interview' pair, but no running gear. I have only
had one painful injury and that was jogging on top of a levee here
in California when I stepped into a pothole running at dusk. Pulled
hamstring, limped for a week. I have never injured myself on a bike.
Crashes excepted, but if you can get up with no breaks it is good for
a survivors laugh.
Bill Baka


--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

the black rose wrote:

Bill Baka wrote:
There are 4 LINUX groups that I am looking at for information
and this group has outposted all 4 of the LINUX combined.

*perk* Linux?

Seriously, do you get anything out of the Linux newsgroups?
I've gotten as many smarmy answers as informative ones.
On a couple of groups, if you don't ask a question the
"right" way, you will be subjected to insult (as if they
were born with a thorough knowledge of Linux...).

just call it a johnny come lately OS, smirk a bit, cop a little attitude
and hail the virtues of SunOS 4 on the intel platform. maybe talk about
how great sunview was and ask 'em again if they had a point.

works like a charm.

ever knew about it, it really made me wonder when the Linux
community turned into such a bunch of tight-@sses. Sheesh.

that all started with the "linux on the desktop" deal.

Now if they'd only make Snoods for Linux...

stuff linux. boot BSD. you'll get gobs of attitude on the newsgroups
but at least they'll be factually correct.

and nobody will care about the bloody desktop.
--
david reuteler