Nearly got into an accident

Roger Zoul wrote:

"PatTX" .net...

I got to thinking, "How could I be safer" and the only thing I
can think of is to check in my mirror for overtaking drivers each
and every time as I approach a cross street. Can anyone think of
something else?

Glad you're OK, Pat.

I think you should definitely look for overtaking driving each and
every time you pass a cross street. I thought everyone did this.
Also, you should also consider moving to the left [to center of
lane] a bit if the traffic allows. I think being too close to the
right edge of the road can result in drivers on the cross street
not seeing you.

Of course this works mainly when bicycling in downtown traffic at
about the same speed as cars are moving, otherwise it's
obstructionist and causes other bad responses from motorists.

How is it obstructionist to move to the left a bit if the traffic
allows? It's kinda hard [not to mention dangerous] to move into
traffic the traffic doesn't allow it.

Watch some bicycle messenger videos. Traffic on local main streets
don't reach 20mph most of the time. On rare occasions I get crowded
by drifting drivers, so I slap the car on the roof as a wake up. It
works.

Jobst Brandt

Roger Zoul wrote:

no, she was just plain old stupid, she went into the other lane
to pass me then braked making a sharp turn right in front of me;
I was doing about 35kph when this happened; there was no reason
she had to pass me

When many people see a bicycle ahead of them, they've just gotta
get ahead of it. They've /just gotta/. It's all really quite
predictable and expectable. It's like some sort of innate
instinct people have. Even fellow cyclists aren't immune to this
effect -- if you're stopped at a red traffic light, some of them
will butt-in in front of you and the stop line, to wait out the
light. And if you're walking your bike on the sidewalk,
pedestrians behind you will bust their asses to get ahead of you.

I don't know why it is, but so many people see bicycles as
obstructions and obstacles, even if you're going faster than they
are. Even if they're riding bikes themselves. When riders
realize this, we become armed with an enhanced ability to interact
with, and even predict the movements of surrounding traffic.

So, there actually /is/ a reason she "had" to pass you -- it was
pathologically hardwired in her psyche.

As you said, "Even if they're riding bikes themselves." This is
apparent when I read of other car/bicycle interactions on this NG.
I think many wreck.bike readers should take lessons from bike
messengers who don't have these problems. In city traffic, I have
been riding in that style for many years without problem. I am
surprised that police cruisers ignore my law violations (as
righteous bicyclists call it). On top of that, as I reported on
one of these topics, I found London (GB) traffic even more
accommodating in that matter.

I fear the tone of my posts might sound like I'm calling you
stupid; please believe me, I have no such intention.

Not to worry, the "take the lane" riders volunteer to raise their
hands when a roll call of stupid riders is taken. I don't
understand why so many riders feel so superior to their fellow
humans when riding bicycles.

The driver who cut you off was being stupid, because she was
acting in a thoughtless, "reptilian brain" mode. I'm just saying:
that's how a lot of people act on the streets. It doesn't hurt to
be aware of that. We can often even use it to our advantage. I
call it "reading their minds" but it really isn't anything so
esoteric. In fact it's dirt simple. People are so predictable.
That's how advertising agencies and casinos make so much money.

Well said!

That said, there certainly are occasions where synchronicity works
against us, and we wind up as sitting ducks for inescapably
imminent consequences that seem to be aimed by Fate directly at
us.

I'm glad you came out of the incident unscathed.

Unscathed, but was anything learned? In such a position I don't
watch the car but rather the driver's head and direction of
attention as well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... and
don't wear headphones because there is much information about cars
approaching from behind in tire and engine sounds.

Hmm... so you don't wear a mirror but yet you have the ability to
watch every driver's head and direction of attention as well as the
steering angle of the cars wheels... in traffic for all cars coming
up behind you? I guess this is an example of the Jobst Brandt
superiorty at work.

Stop concocting fairy tales. Cars behind cannot cut off a bicyclist,
not until the car is ahead or at least abreast of the bicycle. It is
at this time that critical observations can be made. A mirror is not
useful in assessing when a driver will make a right turn or dive into
a parking space, but careful observations can. I'll bet you've never
seen a city bike messenger with a rear view mirror.

Jobst Brandt

In article ,
"PatTX" writes:
: If you ride further left, you're much more likely to be noticed; and
: if that fails, you've got more room to escape. (The best counter-move
: to a right hook is an instant turn hard right, staying inside the
: car's path - and maybe beating on the side of the car when you're
: within reach!)
:
: If there's any hint a following vehicle may turn right across my path,
: I move even further left. Control the lane, and wake them up. And on
: the few instances when someone's attempted a right hook despite my
: lane taking, I've been able to stop them by yelling at them and waving
: them back.
:
: I do use a mirror, too, and near intersections, I check nearly every
: car that's approaching from behind for just that reason. But keep
: track of the forward direction too!
:
: - Frank Krygowski

Thanks for the idea of quickly turning right with the car. I hadn't thought
of that. I don't know if it makes a difference with the idea of using a
mirror at intersections, but this was a T intersection to the right. The
road had two wide lanes and most cars on this particular road will move into
the left lane to pass. That's why I wasn't "taking the lane"--because people
hereabouts just automatically move into the other lane to pass a bicyclist.
I was lulled by my past experiences riding on this particular road out in
the suburbs....

The "Instant Turn" of which Frank speaks is a specific
technique that isn't quite as easy as it sounds. It
involves initially quickly countersteering your bike
toward the car in order to get enough lean to make a
~tight~ turn away from the car.

The part about steering toward the car is the hard
part -- it takes some conscious effort to overcome
our instinctive reactions to avoid the car. But
it's still a worthwhile technique to acquire through
practice (in an empty parking lot, with no cars around.)

The terms: "instant turn" "rock dodge" "panic stop" are
probably all quite Google-able. Those are good skills to
have. I believe they're covered in Frank's Bicycling Life
website
http://www.bicyclinglife.com


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

wrote:

well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... and don't wear
headphones because there is much information about cars approaching
from behind in tire and engine sounds.

I'm not finding that to be the case.

The past two months I've been learning Italian via iPod
and earphones while doing the work commute.

I was surprised how well I could still hear vehicles
behind me, to the point that when close behind and
beside me, I really had trouble hearing the lessons.

I'm believing more than ever that a rear view mirror is
far more useful to making decisions in reacting to on
coming motorists (from astern) than sound.

Now perhaps it is a function of what one listens to.
Italian past-tense verbs using essere or AC-DC "Big
Jack" probably mask out car sounds differently.


SMH

wrote:

Yes, I'm OK but the rest of traffic is all morons. I guess the
bicycle superiority complex common. The rear view mirror folks seem
to be at the head of the group in this respect. Notice that there are
no rear view mirrors seen in bicycle races.

I notice the racers don't wear trousers, or tevas or have
racks on their bikes either.

They also by and large don't seem to have to deal with
motor traffic like non-racer/commuter/tourers do.

I'm regarding the rear view mirror on my bikes with higher
and higher esteem the more and more I ride in traffic.


SMH

Stephen Harding wrote:

Yes, I'm OK but the rest of traffic is all morons. I guess the
bicycle superiority complex common. The rear view mirror folks
seem to be at the head of the group in this respect. Notice that
there are no rear view mirrors seen in bicycle races.

I notice the racers don't wear trousers, or tevas or have racks on
their bikes either.

They also by and large don't seem to have to deal with motor traffic
like non-racer/commuter/tourers do.

I'm regarding the rear view mirror on my bikes with higher and
higher esteem the more and more I ride in traffic.

No greater zealot than a convert!

Jobst Brandt

On Dec 14, 6:13*pm, wrote:

Cars behind cannot cut off a bicyclist,
not until the car is ahead or at least abreast of the bicycle. *It is
at this time that critical observations can be made. *A mirror is not
useful in assessing when a driver will make a right turn or dive into
a parking space, but careful observations can.

A mirror is very useful for seeing a right turn signal. While many
motorists haven't figured out how to operate turn signals, some have,
and I get early warning of their behavior.

And I find non-signaling motorists can often be read by a sort of
traffic analog to "body language." I recall one motorist who came up
behind me in a hurry, slowed to my speed, then suddenly accelerated to
pass me just before an intersection. I suspected he was a right hook
in the making. As it was, I moved a bit further left and yelled at
him while shaking my head, and he braked to turn right behind me.

*I'll bet you've never
seen a city bike messenger with a rear view mirror.

I've also seen them eschew multiple gears and brakes. No thanks,
they're not my role models.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:

Cars behind cannot cut off a bicyclist, not until the car is ahead
or at least abreast of the bicycle. Â*It is at this time that
critical observations can be made. Â*A mirror is not useful in
assessing when a driver will make a right turn or dive into a
parking space, but careful observations can.

A mirror is very useful for seeing a right turn signal. While many
motorists haven't figured out how to operate turn signals, some
have, and I get early warning of their behavior.

And I find non-signaling motorists can often be read by a sort of
traffic analog to "body language." I recall one motorist who came
up behind me in a hurry, slowed to my speed, then suddenly
accelerated to pass me just before an intersection. I suspected he
was a right hook in the making. As it was, I moved a bit further
left and yelled at him while shaking my head, and he braked to turn
right behind me.

I'll bet you've never seen a city bike messenger with a rear view
mirror.

I've also seen them eschew multiple gears and brakes. No thanks,
they're not my role models.

I don't see why you think I am suggesting them as role models. The
point is that with a degree of natural skills the apparent hazard of
bicycling is not what is presented here. It can be done and that it
even works without gears or brakes underscores that.

If your better equipped bicycle doesn't meet the demand then the
failure must be elsewhere.

Jobst Brandt

wrote in message
...
Roger Zoul wrote:

no, she was just plain old stupid, she went into the other lane
to pass me then braked making a sharp turn right in front of me;
I was doing about 35kph when this happened; there was no reason
she had to pass me

When many people see a bicycle ahead of them, they've just gotta
get ahead of it. They've /just gotta/. It's all really quite
predictable and expectable. It's like some sort of innate
instinct people have. Even fellow cyclists aren't immune to this
effect -- if you're stopped at a red traffic light, some of them
will butt-in in front of you and the stop line, to wait out the
light. And if you're walking your bike on the sidewalk,
pedestrians behind you will bust their asses to get ahead of you.

I don't know why it is, but so many people see bicycles as
obstructions and obstacles, even if you're going faster than they
are. Even if they're riding bikes themselves. When riders
realize this, we become armed with an enhanced ability to interact
with, and even predict the movements of surrounding traffic.

So, there actually /is/ a reason she "had" to pass you -- it was
pathologically hardwired in her psyche.

As you said, "Even if they're riding bikes themselves." This is
apparent when I read of other car/bicycle interactions on this NG.
I think many wreck.bike readers should take lessons from bike
messengers who don't have these problems. In city traffic, I have
been riding in that style for many years without problem. I am
surprised that police cruisers ignore my law violations (as
righteous bicyclists call it). On top of that, as I reported on
one of these topics, I found London (GB) traffic even more
accommodating in that matter.

I fear the tone of my posts might sound like I'm calling you
stupid; please believe me, I have no such intention.

Not to worry, the "take the lane" riders volunteer to raise their
hands when a roll call of stupid riders is taken. I don't
understand why so many riders feel so superior to their fellow
humans when riding bicycles.

The driver who cut you off was being stupid, because she was
acting in a thoughtless, "reptilian brain" mode. I'm just saying:
that's how a lot of people act on the streets. It doesn't hurt to
be aware of that. We can often even use it to our advantage. I
call it "reading their minds" but it really isn't anything so
esoteric. In fact it's dirt simple. People are so predictable.
That's how advertising agencies and casinos make so much money.

Well said!

That said, there certainly are occasions where synchronicity works
against us, and we wind up as sitting ducks for inescapably
imminent consequences that seem to be aimed by Fate directly at
us.

I'm glad you came out of the incident unscathed.

Unscathed, but was anything learned? In such a position I don't
watch the car but rather the driver's head and direction of
attention as well as the steering angle of the cars wheels... and
don't wear headphones because there is much information about cars
approaching from behind in tire and engine sounds.

Hmm... so you don't wear a mirror but yet you have the ability to
watch every driver's head and direction of attention as well as the
steering angle of the cars wheels... in traffic for all cars coming
up behind you? I guess this is an example of the Jobst Brandt
superiorty at work.

Stop concocting fairy tales. Cars behind cannot cut off a bicyclist,
not until the car is ahead or at least abreast of the bicycle. It is
at this time that critical observations can be made. A mirror is not
useful in assessing when a driver will make a right turn or dive into
a parking space, but careful observations can. I'll bet you've never
seen a city bike messenger with a rear view mirror.

Jobst Brandt

Stop concocting fairy tales. When a car is passing you up you cannot see the
drivers head and direction of attention as well as steering angle of cars
wheels in such a fashion as to avoid the right hook. And then do this
repeatedly for car after car in traffic situations. Unless, of course, you
are some kind of human cybernetic organism.

In article ,
writes in part:

As you said, "Even if they're riding bikes themselves." This is
apparent when I read of other car/bicycle interactions on this NG. I
think many wreck.bike readers should take lessons from bike messengers
who don't have these problems. In city traffic, I have been riding in
that style for many years without problem.

That's rather why I recommended Robert Hurst's book:
The Art of Urban Cycling: Lessons From the Street
a few posts upthread. The author himself is an
erstwhile bike messenger. I particularly appreciate
his treatment of dealing with responsibility & blame,
and applying the energy that might be spent on blaming
the other guy, to figuring out what went wrong, and how
to avoid bad situations in the future from the lessons
learned. I think you would agree with his points in
that respect.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca