When did you first suspect Michael Rasmussen was doping?

Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last stretch
of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post here, "Is he
on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected him for much
longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)

in message , Breaking News
') wrote:

Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last
stretch of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post
here, "Is he on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected
him for much longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)

You know, you're getting awfully close to my killfile; and so far, despite
all the kooks and oddballs, I haven't killfiled anyone in this group.

Rasmussen hasn't (yet) even been accused of doping. He's been accused of
lying about his whereabouts. He could have a number of reasons for doing
this (and yes, doping is one of them). But his performance yesterday is
not evidence of doping, unless he's been doping consistently for many
years (which is possible). We always knew he could climb away from every
other rider in the peloton. Guess what? He did.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last stretch
of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post here, "Is
he
on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected him for much
longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)
-----------
when I first laid eyes on him, I knew he was dirty.

On Jul 26, 4:50 am, Simon Brooke wrote:
in message , Breaking News

') wrote:
Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last
stretch of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post
here, "Is he on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected
him for much longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)

You know, you're getting awfully close to my killfile; and so far, despite
all the kooks and oddballs, I haven't killfiled anyone in this group.

Rasmussen hasn't (yet) even been accused of doping. He's been accused of
lying about his whereabouts. He could have a number of reasons for doing
this (and yes, doping is one of them). But his performance yesterday is
not evidence of doping, unless he's been doping consistently for many
years (which is possible). We always knew he could climb away from every
other rider in the peloton. Guess what? He did.

--
(Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

Ah...another Lindsey Lohan!!

In complete denial.

Look grow up and face it. The sport is broken.

Kill Files....child...

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:57:36 -0400, "Breaking News"
wrote:

Funnily enough, today, after he fended off the attacks in the last stretch
of the steep mountains, and won the stage. (I was going to post here, "Is he
on drugs?" and then the story broke.) Others have suspected him for much
longer. (I wasn't aware he'd evaded the drug tests.)

His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.

HELLO?

No, he hasn't tested positive, but you'd have to be pretty naive to
ignore the circumstantial evidence.

Doug Taylor wrote:
His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.

Basso TT improvement didn't happen overnight, it started when he moved to
CSC and Riis made sure he worked on his TT position and made him ride his
TT bike frequently. Pantani in 98 would be a better example.

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:18:47 +0200, Donald Munro
wrote:

Doug Taylor wrote:
His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.

Basso TT improvement didn't happen overnight, it started when he moved to
CSC and Riis made sure he worked on his TT position and made him ride his
TT bike frequently. Pantani in 98 would be a better example.

Pantani is ANOTHER example. I still like the circumstantial
correlation: Climber - sucky TT - Blood doping - sudden TT
improvement - grand tour victory.

Blood doping isn't magic: you need a talented, fit, trained cyclist
to win a tour, dope or no. I'm convinced that Basso needed the
training, the wind tunnel AND the dope to win the Giro.

And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
huge clue.

Doug Taylor writes:

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:18:47 +0200, Donald Munro
wrote:

Doug Taylor wrote:
His TT. Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
tours partly by TT results: Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.

Basso TT improvement didn't happen overnight, it started when he moved to
CSC and Riis made sure he worked on his TT position and made him ride his
TT bike frequently. Pantani in 98 would be a better example.

Pantani is ANOTHER example. I still like the circumstantial
correlation: Climber - sucky TT - Blood doping - sudden TT
improvement - grand tour victory.

Blood doping isn't magic: you need a talented, fit, trained cyclist
to win a tour, dope or no. I'm convinced that Basso needed the
training, the wind tunnel AND the dope to win the Giro.

And, no way Skeletor bests a cyclist like a born again clean David
Millar in a TT without "a little help from his friends." That was a
huge clue.

I think you may be right there

Of course individual riders may work on their technique, but Millar,
presuming he is in fact clean, is certainly a more than reasonable
benchmark

--
Davey Crockett - No 4Q to Reply
-
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

in message , Doug Taylor
') wrote:

His TT. Â*Last two climbers who used to suck at TT's and won grand
tours partly by TT results: Â*Basso 2006 Giro; Heras 2005 Vuelta.

HELLO?

No, he hasn't tested positive, but you'd have to be pretty naive to
ignore the circumstantial evidence.

You're missing an important point here. Note: I'm not defending Rasmussen,
I don't know whether he's doped or not. However, Rasmussen has always been
a time trial specialist, he's just done his time trials on a road bike and
in the mountains. But unlike any other modern climber, his typical exploit
is a very long solo breakaway. He doesn't need anyone to work with him,
and he doesn't need anyone to chase. In effect these rides have been time
trials - they take exactly the same mental discipline as time trials, they
take exactly the same physical stamina as time trials, and they're
considerably tougher than most modern time trials.

We remember one specific time trial in which Rasmussen had every sort of
bad luck and lost his composure and his confidence totally, and we say 'he
can't time trial'. But that's just rubbish. He has put in astounding time
trial performances in all the last three tours - he just hasn't done it on
time trial stages.

Rasmussen /may/ have doped, but his time trial performance isn't any sort
of evidence of it.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Good grief, I can remember when England won the Ashes.

Davey Crockett wrote:
Of course individual riders may work on their technique, but Millar,
presuming he is in fact clean, is certainly a more than reasonable
benchmark

All things being equal perhaps, but I think Millar had been working quite
hard for his team the day before and he worked hard the next day as well
so he may have been saving himself.