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Stronger rubber cement?



 
 
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  #121  
Old January 17th 17, 03:08 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:02:29 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:46:17 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 15:05, Duane wrote:
James wrote:
On 17/01/17 04:49, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 22:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 11:59:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

Try these:

https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn.../dp/B000BMT2TM


I never looked back. Reviews are mixed and sometimes they do have poor
valve attachment. Also, some are thick only towards the running surface
and that is less protecting than thick all around.

Thanks. I should probably get something like that instead of the
cheap tubes that I've been buying. Note that the cheap tubes seem to
leak without any riding. I've built wheels, applied pressure, and
watched the pressure drop slowly over a period of several days. The
leaks are small, difficult to find, tricky to plug without a patch,
and very irritating.


Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
think this is "normal".



I prefer pumping up tyres on my road bike every couple of weeks to
riding a slug.


I don't mind topping off my tire pressure daily just to be sure.
Admittedly a bit anal but part of my usual get ready for my ride routine.
The idea of two pounds worth of tubes to avoid putting air in my tires
doesn't parse at all.


That's only a very pleasant side effect for me, not the core reason. The
main reason is that I never get flats with thick tubes despite several
required offroad stretches on my road bike. Unless a side wall blows but
I hope it's just a matter of time until I find road bike tires with
better side walls and correct size (not undersized like Gatorskins).
Took me almost two years for the MTB but now I am pretty happy there.
Especially since those also happen to be the less expsnive tires (from
Asia).

What good does it do to be 2% faster on a ride when you are 20 miles
from home and ... PHSEEEOOOOUUU ...?

[...]


I think I rarely get more than a flat per year if that and when I do we're
talking 10 minutes to replace a tube. It's not the idea of 2% faster,
it's carrying all this extra weight and suffering this poor performance to
prevent something that rarely occurs.


Joerg is content riding heavy, dead tires, even on the road. Some people are like that. I used to ride with a guy who would always carry a back-pack filled with tools. It was penance for some undisclosed sin -- or original sin. Who knows. http://tinyurl.com/zmcjfcl I don't recall him every using one of the tools, nor did I ever see inside the backpack. Judging by its size, I think he had a torch and granite surface plate, just in case he needed quick frame repair.

-- Jay Beattie.

But at the same time he lusts after a titanium bicycle.... somewhat of
an enigma there - a very light bicycle with big heavy tires :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #122  
Old January 17th 17, 03:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:02:29 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:46:17 PM UTC-8, Duane wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 15:05, Duane wrote:
James wrote:
On 17/01/17 04:49, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 22:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 11:59:28 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

Try these:

https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn.../dp/B000BMT2TM


I never looked back. Reviews are mixed and sometimes they do have poor
valve attachment. Also, some are thick only towards the running surface
and that is less protecting than thick all around.

Thanks. I should probably get something like that instead of the
cheap tubes that I've been buying. Note that the cheap tubes seem to
leak without any riding. I've built wheels, applied pressure, and
watched the pressure drop slowly over a period of several days. The
leaks are small, difficult to find, tricky to plug without a patch,
and very irritating.


Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
think this is "normal".



I prefer pumping up tyres on my road bike every couple of weeks to
riding a slug.


I don't mind topping off my tire pressure daily just to be sure.
Admittedly a bit anal but part of my usual get ready for my ride routine.
The idea of two pounds worth of tubes to avoid putting air in my tires
doesn't parse at all.


That's only a very pleasant side effect for me, not the core reason. The
main reason is that I never get flats with thick tubes despite several
required offroad stretches on my road bike. Unless a side wall blows but
I hope it's just a matter of time until I find road bike tires with
better side walls and correct size (not undersized like Gatorskins).
Took me almost two years for the MTB but now I am pretty happy there.
Especially since those also happen to be the less expsnive tires (from
Asia).

What good does it do to be 2% faster on a ride when you are 20 miles
from home and ... PHSEEEOOOOUUU ...?

[...]


I think I rarely get more than a flat per year if that and when I do we're
talking 10 minutes to replace a tube. It's not the idea of 2% faster,
it's carrying all this extra weight and suffering this poor performance to
prevent something that rarely occurs.


Joerg is content riding heavy, dead tires, even on the road. Some people are like that. I used to ride with a guy who would always carry a back-pack filled with tools. It was penance for some undisclosed sin -- or original sin. Who knows. http://tinyurl.com/zmcjfcl I don't recall him every using one of the tools, nor did I ever see inside the backpack. Judging by its size, I think he had a torch and granite surface plate, just in case he needed quick frame repair.

-- Jay Beattie.


Sort of like a bike helmet. One doesn't expect to need it but if one
does then it might help :-)

(I couldn't resist temptation :-)\
--
cheers,

John B.

  #123  
Old January 17th 17, 04:28 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.


Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb

-- Jay Beattie.



  #124  
Old January 17th 17, 05:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 10:28:41 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.


Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb

-- Jay Beattie.


Read Joerg's post from over the years and you'll see that Joerg takes great delight in complaining. Joerg does not want/need a bicycle - he needs/wants a pedal powered motorcycle.

For his bicycle he should just buy solid rubber tires and be done with every needing to fix a flat or pump them up.

Cheers
  #125  
Old January 17th 17, 06:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,018
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:05:43 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

The idea of two pounds worth of tubes to avoid putting air in my tires
doesn't parse at all.


Let's do it by the numbers.

The tubes I usually buy are these:
http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10053_10052_175629_-1___205038
26x1.5" for $4.79ea. They weigh 176g (0.39 lbs) and they leak air.

The proposed leak proof tubes:
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn-Resistant-Presta-Valve/dp/B0063R2GJW/
26x1.5" for $15.36ea. These weigh 572g (1.26 lbs).

For two tires, that a difference of:
2 * (1.26 - 0.39) = 1.74 lbs (789g)
Not quite 2 lbs but close enough.

The average 26x1.5" tire

seems to weigh about 550g (1.2 lbs). Ignoring the weight of the
wheel, with these tubes the rotating weight will increase by:
1.74 / (2 * (1.2 + 0.39)) = 55%

Offhand, it seems a bit too heavy to be worthwhile.

Please note that my original problem was not to find the best thorn
proof tire, but rather one that doesn't leak out of the box. I don't
seem to experience any sudden releases of air, but instead get slow
leaks. On the wheels in question, I ride on pavement.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #126  
Old January 17th 17, 08:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,202
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:51:38 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:05:43 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

The idea of two pounds worth of tubes to avoid putting air in my tires
doesn't parse at all.


Let's do it by the numbers.

The tubes I usually buy are these:
http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10053_10052_175629_-1___205038
26x1.5" for $4.79ea. They weigh 176g (0.39 lbs) and they leak air.

The proposed leak proof tubes:
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn-Resistant-Presta-Valve/dp/B0063R2GJW/
26x1.5" for $15.36ea. These weigh 572g (1.26 lbs).

For two tires, that a difference of:
2 * (1.26 - 0.39) = 1.74 lbs (789g)
Not quite 2 lbs but close enough.

The average 26x1.5" tire

seems to weigh about 550g (1.2 lbs). Ignoring the weight of the
wheel, with these tubes the rotating weight will increase by:
1.74 / (2 * (1.2 + 0.39)) = 55%

Offhand, it seems a bit too heavy to be worthwhile.

Please note that my original problem was not to find the best thorn
proof tire, but rather one that doesn't leak out of the box. I don't
seem to experience any sudden releases of air, but instead get slow
leaks. On the wheels in question, I ride on pavement.


Inner tubes come in a myriad types and prices. If you buy the absolute
lightest, thinnest, tubes, they will leak, but if you buy thicker
inner tubes they will usually be cheaper and may leak a bit but not to
the "pump them up every day" extent.

It used to be that "sew ups", or "tubular's", were the last word in
bicycle tires and, as I remember it, they did require pumping up
practically every time you got on the bike. (and I don't remember
anyone complaining about it :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

  #127  
Old January 17th 17, 03:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:38:15 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 21:51:38 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 23:05:43 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

The idea of two pounds worth of tubes to avoid putting air in my tires
doesn't parse at all.


Let's do it by the numbers.

The tubes I usually buy are these:
http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10053_10052_175629_-1___205038
26x1.5" for $4.79ea. They weigh 176g (0.39 lbs) and they leak air.

The proposed leak proof tubes:
https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn-Resistant-Presta-Valve/dp/B0063R2GJW/
26x1.5" for $15.36ea. These weigh 572g (1.26 lbs).

For two tires, that a difference of:
2 * (1.26 - 0.39) = 1.74 lbs (789g)
Not quite 2 lbs but close enough.

The average 26x1.5" tire

seems to weigh about 550g (1.2 lbs). Ignoring the weight of the
wheel, with these tubes the rotating weight will increase by:
1.74 / (2 * (1.2 + 0.39)) = 55%

Offhand, it seems a bit too heavy to be worthwhile.

Please note that my original problem was not to find the best thorn
proof tire, but rather one that doesn't leak out of the box. I don't
seem to experience any sudden releases of air, but instead get slow
leaks. On the wheels in question, I ride on pavement.


Inner tubes come in a myriad types and prices. If you buy the absolute
lightest, thinnest, tubes, they will leak, but if you buy thicker
inner tubes they will usually be cheaper and may leak a bit but not to
the "pump them up every day" extent.

It used to be that "sew ups", or "tubular's", were the last word in
bicycle tires and, as I remember it, they did require pumping up
practically every time you got on the bike. (and I don't remember
anyone complaining about it :-)


Tubulars are still the last word in bicycle tires and what the pros ride, but they have professional support staff who are physically fit and skilled in the complex operation of floor pumps and other precision machinery. Most of us do not have the intelligence or fitness necessary to operate a floor pump -- and certainly not on a daily basis. My wife and I have more robust tires on our bike that we have professionally pumped once a year. http://www.loupiote.com/photos_m/796...re-bicycle.jpg

-- Jay Beattie.




  #128  
Old January 17th 17, 04:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 1/16/2017 11:10 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 10:28:41 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.


Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb

-- Jay Beattie.


Read Joerg's post from over the years and you'll see that Joerg takes great delight in complaining. Joerg does not want/need a bicycle - he needs/wants a pedal powered motorcycle.

For his bicycle he should just buy solid rubber tires and be done with every needing to fix a flat or pump them up.


Seriously, Joerg, why are you _not_ using solid tires? (I mean, except
for the general principle that nothing ever works for Joerg.)

Yes, they would be heavy and slow, but you've said dozens of times that
you don't care about that. They would be rugged and thorn proof. The
sidewalls would never blow out.

Is it because you'd have to stop typing your sound effects?
("Kabloooeeee!")

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #129  
Old January 17th 17, 04:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-16 18:04, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:11:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 16:50, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:16:51 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-05 02:04, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/17 20:05, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-03 17:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


Thanks to all responders (also Barry and Doug). I'll order Slime Rubber
Cement with my next Amazon shipment because that's what David uses, he
says it works well and it isn't expensive:

https://www.amazon.com/Slime-1050-Ru.../dp/B003V9UU66

Whatwhat!! Are you *seriously* claiming r.b.t has been useful!? What
ever is the world coming to?


Usenet is very useful, I guess that's where the name comes from. A lot
of hints here go into my bicycle files, in the sense of "If ... ever
breaks consider replacing it with ..." or "If it breaks don't ever use ...".

When I mentioned in a post in a newsgroup that I had bonked, want to
avoid it but can't stand the cyclist astronaut food or any sweet stuff
someone responded with a link to a recipe for homemade non-sweet power
bars. My wife bakes them to this day. Yesterday I shared these bars with
another rider who really likes them as well. Can't buy them anywhere.


Out of curiosity, is your wife's recipe actually free of sugar, in any
form, or it just doesn't taste sweet?


It has a pinch of sugar for some reason, not sure if that can be left
out or replaced with something else. You can't taste it though. While
they also mention just a pinch of salt we add several pinches because in
summer one sweats out a lot of salt here.

Got it only in German but if really interested I could translate it:

http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/14555...sliriegel.html

It's a little more work than it looks like, with the bacon and all that,
and cutting into bars at the end so they can be packed on a bicycle. My
wife puts all of them into the freezer and then moves as many as needed
to the fridge a couple days before rides.


That looks like a recipe for some sort of Oatmeal cookies with bacon,
rather than the usual "power Bar" concept, which is usually something
that your body can get a quick bunch of energy from to replace what
you have lost.


I make sure I eat them during a scheduled break at some nice and scenic
area, not after I begin to feel a hard bonk coming up. The latter is a
mistake I only made once and don't want to experience that again. These
bar get me through the rides quite nicely. Usually 40-45 miles,
partially under a lot of power.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #130  
Old January 17th 17, 04:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-16 17:30, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 16:23:53 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.


Strange. My LBS is a chain of two large shops in Bangkok, and a large
number of agents scattered all over the country, and is the largest
bicycle business in Thailand. They sell predominantly road bikes and
the sales manager tells me that a very large portion of the bikes that
they sell are Carbon. In fact she said that it was much easier to sell
a carbon bike than an aluminum bike.


Well, Bangkok is a hardcore urban area. What I meant is where I live
which isn't really urban.


Do you live in some poor, improvised, area where people can't afford
decent equipment :-?


Many MTB riders out here do not believe in carbon and neither do I.


I wonder whether Andrew's business depends on broken mountain bikes
and cheap walmart stuff?


It's what I heard a lot here. In recent years that has changed and new
shops sprang up after the bike path and MTB trail system was expanded.



--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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