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Questions about value of bicycles.



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 13th 21, 05:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip
I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA
In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.

I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles.

And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet
solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know
about bicycles?


John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards?
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  #22  
Old April 13th 21, 06:00 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mark J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 840
Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On 4/12/2021 12:58 PM, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 11:22 AM, Mark J. wrote:

snip

My understanding 40 years ago was that selling *bikes* was not really
a profitable undertaking for *bike shops*, that the profit really came
from parts, accessories, and service.* The markup just wasn't that
high on *bikes*.* This may have changed in the intervening years.


The margin on new bikes, sold at MSRP, is 25-35%, for Trek. Trek cut the
margins to shops for online sales.

There are considerable costs to the shop for assembly. Parts and
accessories typically have "Keystone" margins or better, Keystone is
100% markup over wholesale.

In an area with high costs for leasing space, and high wages, you have
to sell a lot of high-value bicycles and a lot of parts and accessories
to be able to make it. You're not going to survive selling mainly
$300-500 entry level bikes at 25-35% margins. On a $3000 bike, even at
only 25% margin, you're doing pretty well, but those aren't the majority
of sales.


Yeah, the figures I remember from "back in the day" was that 70% of the
MSRP was the wholesale price to the dealer.

Mark J.
  #23  
Old April 13th 21, 09:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 10:00:05 AM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 4/12/2021 12:58 PM, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 11:22 AM, Mark J. wrote:

snip

My understanding 40 years ago was that selling *bikes* was not really
a profitable undertaking for *bike shops*, that the profit really came
from parts, accessories, and service. The markup just wasn't that
high on *bikes*. This may have changed in the intervening years.


The margin on new bikes, sold at MSRP, is 25-35%, for Trek. Trek cut the
margins to shops for online sales.

There are considerable costs to the shop for assembly. Parts and
accessories typically have "Keystone" margins or better, Keystone is
100% markup over wholesale.

In an area with high costs for leasing space, and high wages, you have
to sell a lot of high-value bicycles and a lot of parts and accessories
to be able to make it. You're not going to survive selling mainly
$300-500 entry level bikes at 25-35% margins. On a $3000 bike, even at
only 25% margin, you're doing pretty well, but those aren't the majority
of sales.

Yeah, the figures I remember from "back in the day" was that 70% of the
MSRP was the wholesale price to the dealer.


I think that all of the retail bicycle dealers with a very few exceptions are barely keeping the doors open. We have one exception around here that has been in business for a long time. He has been selling a LOT of medium price Specialized bikes and off-brand kids first bikes. He seems to have found the formula.
  #24  
Old April 14th 21, 12:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip
I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA
In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.
I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles.

And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet
solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know
about bicycles?


John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards?


Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a
low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving
parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them?
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #25  
Old April 14th 21, 12:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip
I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA
In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.
I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles.
And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet
solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know
about bicycles?


John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards?

Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a
low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving
parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them?
--
Cheers,

John B.

If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology.
  #26  
Old April 14th 21, 03:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip
I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA
In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.
I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles.
And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet
solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know
about bicycles?

John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards?

Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a
low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving
parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them?
--
Cheers,

John B.

If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology.


What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom
bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the
incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two
bearings with the tube sticking through them?

As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at
least a hundred and thirty years :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #27  
Old April 14th 21, 04:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip
I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA
In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.
I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles.
And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet
solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know
about bicycles?

John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards?
Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a
low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving
parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them?
--
Cheers,

John B.

If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology.

What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom
bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the
incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two
bearings with the tube sticking through them?

As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at
least a hundred and thirty years :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s
--
Cheers,

John B.

Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it.
  #28  
Old April 15th 21, 03:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip
I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA
In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.
I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles.
And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet
solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know
about bicycles?

John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards?
Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a
low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving
parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them?
--
Cheers,

John B.
If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology.

What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom
bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the
incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two
bearings with the tube sticking through them?

As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at
least a hundred and thirty years :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s
--
Cheers,

John B.

Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it.


Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I
had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head
bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either.
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #29  
Old April 15th 21, 03:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,638
Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 12:03:13 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
wrote:

Yes there are very naif people thinking that labor is still 5 dollars an
hour. People also complain that the LBS charge 15 euro to fix a flat at the
rear on a utility bike with a hub gear including a new tube... Pff.


15 Euro is a lot cheaper than fixing a flat myself.

Except that if I paid in Euro, there would be airfare involved.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

  #30  
Old April 15th 21, 04:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,196
Default Questions about value of bicycles.

On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 7:12:05 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Apr 2021 08:08:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 7:55:50 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 16:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Tuesday, April 13, 2021 at 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 13 Apr 2021 09:07:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 6:56:34 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Apr 2021 15:45:40 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, April 12, 2021 at 9:50:26 AM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 4/12/2021 8:56 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

snip
I sold a couple of bikes just before Covid19 and I discovered that it is hard to sell a bike via the Dutch craiglist for a reasonable price if it doesn't have disc brakes, if not CF and for a ATB also is not 29". I think your bike would go for around 1500-200- euro over here. I tried to sell this bike:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/1dSJW6DxfgCTYJxXA
In the U.S., nearly everyone buying a new higher-end road bike wants
disc brakes whether it makes sense or not.

Electronic shifting is not necessarily seen as a plus by many buyers
because of the hassle of battery charging, and the extra complexity that
it adds.

Same in the U.S. regarding ATBs, a 26" wheeled ATB has almost no value,
though 27.5" sells well for shorter riders.

Tom needs to find all this out for himself, everyone here explaining
reality to him will have no effect. It's not uncommon for people to have
unrealistic ideas about what their used stuff is worth.
I will ask you again Scharf - what do you know about bicycles. Over and over again, on this group you are completely unable to make a single technically correct comment on bicycles.
And you have problems installing a Bottom Bracket and haven't yet
solved the problems with the head bearings... So, what do you know
about bicycles?

John, carefully explain to everyone here what you know about high end bicycles and how you learned it? The bottom bracket tool for installing the BB did not get shipped with it and a Park Tool substitute cost more than simply taking it to the shop. What makes you think that the headset once received didn't get easily installed? Please tell me how you now choose a correct headset with about two dozen standards?
Tell us Tom what is the mechanical difference between a high end and a
low end bicycle? Disregarding the wheels they both have two moving
parts and you had/have problems assembling both of them?
--
Cheers,

John B.
If that's what you think we need no longer include you in any conversation regarding modern technology.
What modern "technology" are we talking about here? The bottom
bracket? Two bearings and a shaft through the bearings? Or the
incredibly complex head bearings? You know, the gizmo that has two
bearings with the tube sticking through them?

As an aside, Tom's "modern technology has been used on bicycles for at
least a hundred and thirty years :-)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...0s_a nd_1890s
--
Cheers,

John B.

Yes John, you have shown over and over just how much you know about anything with two wheels on it.

Well Tommy I built a bike from the raw tubes and lugs and remarkably I
had no problems whatsoever installing the bottom bracket and the head
bearings. And I don't have 200 pounds of tools to cart around either.


Tell everyone here what an acetylene torch weighs with the bottles.
 




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