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  #141  
Old April 27th 21, 01:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default I am that out of date

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 15:01:22 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 10:34:39 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 22:01:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:
But Trek and Specialized, two main stream sold everywhere bike brands
have bikes a LOT higher than a mere $6,000. Specialized SL7 is $13k.
Trek Madone SLR9 is $12.5k. The mid priced bikes from these two companies
are more than $6k.


I would guess those are intended for the pros with corporate sponsors.
--
Jeff Liebermann


Well...all the bikes used by pro racers has to be available to the public to buy.

UCI Article 1.3.006
"Equipment shall be of a type that is sold for use by anyone practicing cycling as a sport."

Pro racing equipment is different than motor sport racing. F1, Indy, stock car. None of their cars/equipment is available to buy and use by the public. But the exact same bike, equipment, wheels, tires, handlebar tape, pedals, saddle used by pros can and maybe is bought by non racers. Its the law, rule.


Thanks. I didn't know that, which shows how little (or nothing) I
know about pro racing.

Digging through the clarifications, I found something of an exception
on Pg 6:
https://www.uci.org/docs/default-source/equipment/clarificationguideoftheucitechnicalregulation-2018-05-02-eng_english.pdf

"Any equipment in development phase and not yet available for sale
(prototype) must be subject of an authorization request to the UCI
Equipment Unit before its use..."

"Upon expiry of the authorized period of use of a prototype (equipment
not yet available for sale), any item of equipment must be
commercially available in order to be used in cycling events."

It would seem that experimental prototypes, which are not yet
available for purchase, can be raced for a year, or more with an
extension. I can see various ways of exploiting the 1 year delay
before commercial availability by advertising a series of "limited
production" bicycles.

I wonder whether offering for sale a very high priced bicycle,
affordable by only a small part of the bicycle riding public,
represents "sold for use by anyone practicing cycling as a sport".

I also question whether the word "type" in "Equipment shall be of a
type that is sold for use by anyone practicing cycling as a sport".
really means that the actual bicycle being raced is being sold to the
public, or if the bicycle being raced is something similar but not
identical to the bicycle being raced. If similar, how similar? If
the intent was that the specific model bicycle being raced should also
be available for general consumption, why didn't the rule specifically
state something like "Equipment shall be identical to what is
currently and openly sold for use by anyone practicing cycling as a
sport"?

The intent of ARTICLE 1.3.006 seems quite genuine but I'm not so sure
about how it is codified or practiced.


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
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  #142  
Old April 27th 21, 02:06 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default I am that out of date

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 12:15:59 +0200, Rolf Mantel
wrote:

Am 25.04.2021 um 06:53 schrieb Jeff Liebermann:

How about a cure for ALL cancers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-V_MDVgISo
It too will probably take 10 to 15 years to obtain research funding
and for all the agencies and departments to sign off on a treatment:
"Vaccine Development, Testing, and Regulation"
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation
With government help, add an additional 10 to 15 years.


This is what BioNTec were working on until Jan 2020.
In the last 15 months, they have been given billions to ensure mRNA
technoloy is safe and mass-producable.


Yes. The ultimate lubricant to make things go smoother and faster is
money. So far, all the major sources of lubricant have been from
Europe and Singapore. None from USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioNTech#Financing

Id' say once we have spare production capacities for mRNA mecidation,
individually tuned cancer vaccination will not be that far off any more.


Possibly. Previously, BioNTech specialized in patient specific active
immunotherapy for diseases like cancer. When the vaccine frenzy is
over, they might return to custom cancer cures. However, I believe
that the market for vaccines will continue as the virus mutates
leaving speculative development as a less profitable alternative.

Drivel: The stock price almost doubled in price during April.
https://www.google.com/search?q=biontech+stock



Rolf

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #143  
Old April 27th 21, 02:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default I am that out of date

On 4/26/2021 4:00 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 4/26/2021 7:46 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2021 10:30 PM, Mark J. wrote:
... * He was so
delighted, and he made me feel like a wizard.* ...


We MEs would say "He was probably an Electrical Engineer."* ;-)

Or maybe English? Once I noticed a faculty member's bike parked in a
rack on campus with the front quick release not clamped, but instead
screwed down by hand. I tracked the guy down and gave him a lesson on
quick release levers. He was very grateful.

I found him in his office in the English department.


The lost-pedal guy was from the Poli Sci department.* Later I took his
intro class on American ?Government? ?Political history? and enjoyed it.
Learned a lot about the accomplishments of the various presidents and
one hundred landmark Supreme Court decisions (we had to learn
one-sentence summaries of the 100 by name).


I sometimes make fun of people who don't understand simple mechanics,
but really, I understand that different people have widely different
knowledge and skills. (Yes, the Mechanical Engineering students and the
Electrical Engineering students ragged on each other, but it was just
for fun.)

One friend of mine whom I see a bit too seldom is a Harley riding
Catholic priest. He's ridden for decades and done countless long trips.
I once invited him to a motorcycle show at a local museum. I remember
him pointing and asking "So is that the carburetor?" to which I
responded "No, that's the battery" and things like that.

But on matters of European history, European culture, psychology and (of
course) theology, he's a font of information. Quite a brilliant guy.
--
- Frank Krygowski
  #144  
Old April 27th 21, 02:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default I am that out of date

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 08:34:31 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Apr 2021 22:01:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 8:33:02 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Only $6,000?
https://www.beautifullife.info/automotive-design/most-expensive-bicycles-in-the-world/
Winner of the conspicuous consumption in cycling award is the
$1,000,0000 gold plated mountain bike. It's #1 at the bottom of the
page.


Not sure about the $1million or $10million (you have seven zeroes after the 1,
that gets you to $10million) gold plated bikes.


Sorry. My hands start to shake when dealing with more than $1 million
dollars.

But Trek and Specialized, two main stream sold everywhere bike brands
have bikes a LOT higher than a mere $6,000. Specialized SL7 is $13k.
Trek Madone SLR9 is $12.5k. The mid priced bikes from these two companies
are more than $6k.


I would guess those are intended for the pros with corporate sponsors.
The most I've paid for a new bicycle was about $300 in 1984. ($758 in
todays inflated dollars). If one wants the very best, one had to pay
the very most.


Is it "inflated dollars"? Or "deflated dollars"? :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #145  
Old April 27th 21, 03:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default I am that out of date

On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 7:20:48 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2021 9:22 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 3:57:27 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 1:06:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 8:07:14 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 7:52:41 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/25/2021 10:17 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 7:46:20 AM UTC-7, Roger Merriman wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, April 22, 2021 at 8:59:48 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/22/2021 10:36 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/21/2021 10:33 PM, wrote:

I somehow forgot about clipless pedals. They are a HUGE
improvement. I started with Time Equipe road pedals back
in the late 1980s, early 1990s. Same ones Lemond used.

Interestingly, the guy who set our club's record for club
mileage (11,000+ miles of club rides, not counting his
individual rides) just got a new pair of shoes for riding.
They're ordinary New Balance sneakers. He rides using toe
clips.

There are also the occasional barefoot marathon runner and
US football kicker. They are outliers.

One of our club riders mentioned that most falls on bicycles stems from
people not getting their feet out of clips rapidly enough. So he reverted
to flat pedals. Now he cannot keep up on any climbs. And people with
training can get out of pedals just as fast as he can step off of a flat
pedal since they are ready to clip out when the conditions warrant care.

Can’t say I have found any performance difference at all, I used clipless
for a few years on my first road bike, was fine, never struggled to clip in
or out or had a clip less moment but I never loved them.

Few years back bought a CX bike for hacking about the woods plus road and
put some MTB flats on, and used my MTB flat shoes, ie pedals with pins in,
plus shoes with soft tacky tread.

In short with proper flats you can’t slide the shoe but have to lift to
reposition, unlike the road flats which are frankly terrifying slippy.

I’ve done 100+ miles on them, climbed up big mountains, tackled seriously
steep climbs etc.

I’ve seen opinions dressed as science with huge gains for clipless but
proper stuff the gains is marginal, apparently. Which certainly echoes my
experience.

Interesting the pulling up, gain is very difficult to prove.

Roger Merriman
Yesterday, when the pedal stripped out of the crank, I pedaled a mile with on leg. Try that with flat pedals.
Wow. How did the pedal strip out of the crank?
I was just riding along and the pedal started rocking. I immediately turned around to see if I could make it back but 10 miles from home the pedal, threads and all simply pulled right out. Pedals, as you know, are "British threaded" so you only have to tighten them to "snug" so I tighten them in with an Allen Key to keep from overtightening them and pulling threads. I stopped using the large and heavy pedals wrench long ago except to pull a pedal off. But this is the first time I can remember a pedal stripping out of a crank. The only cause I can think of is that the thread diameter on the pedal was undersize and the top of the threads on the pedal were cut flat on top.
Or you under-tightened the pedal, which is the most probable explanation. It's 30-40nm torque -- which is more than "snug," which is IMO about 12-15nm like Shimano crank bolts.
Jay, pedals are English threaded and under force they tighten. I took these pedals and cranks on two hard climbing rides so if they weren't tight enough before they were tight enough after.

I have never had any problems with FSA cranks and Look pedals. Looking at the threads on the Rock Bros Keo substitute you can see that the threads are not badly made but I'm willing to admit that rather than the pedal it might just as well have been the material of the crank. I just measured the threaded area OD on the Rock Bros pedals and it is pretty regular 0.55" which is .0125 smaller than the 9/16 but it is the same measurement as Look pedals measured in the same manner.


Did you tighten the pedals to recommended torque? If not, it backed out because the pedals were under-torqued. If so, then you have bearing binding. The question now is if you have ruined the pedal threads and need to replace the crank.

Can't those be Helicoiled?


Yes, I was being overly-dramatic. Many times you can just screw the pedal back in, although I screw it back in with thread lock and recommended torque because recommended torque alone may not be enough to keep it in.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #146  
Old April 27th 21, 03:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
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Posts: 1,638
Default I am that out of date

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 08:26:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Nope. It also has gold plated gears, chain, disc brakes, and other
moving parts which are likely to shed gold while riding. This is not
a bicycle intended to be ridden, but rather is intended to be seen.
https://www.beautifullife.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/11/img_big/01_house_of_solid_gold_24k_gold_02.jpg
https://www.beautifullife.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/11/img_big/01_house_of_solid_gold_24k_gold_01.jpg
However, it appears to be a Photoshop job, not a real working bicycle.
Or, if I'm wrong, it may have been gold powder coated, gold painted,
or gold plated like 3CPO.


Or it could be titanium nitride, which would actually work.

But you really, really wouldn't want to get that sculpture dirty.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

  #147  
Old April 27th 21, 04:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default I am that out of date

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 22:39:58 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 08:26:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Nope. It also has gold plated gears, chain, disc brakes, and other
moving parts which are likely to shed gold while riding. This is not
a bicycle intended to be ridden, but rather is intended to be seen.
https://www.beautifullife.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/11/img_big/01_house_of_solid_gold_24k_gold_02.jpg
https://www.beautifullife.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/11/img_big/01_house_of_solid_gold_24k_gold_01.jpg
However, it appears to be a Photoshop job, not a real working bicycle.
Or, if I'm wrong, it may have been gold powder coated, gold painted,
or gold plated like 3CPO.


Or it could be titanium nitride, which would actually work.


Maybe, but I doubt it. Titanium nitride (TiN) tends to have a matt
yellow-gold color:
https://www.google.com/search?q=titanium+nitride&tbm=isch
while genuine gold is more glossy and has slightly more red color:
https://www.google.com/search?q=gold+plating&tbm=isch
It's applied by physical vapor, cathodic arc, or electron beam
deposition in a vacuum. Because it's a ceramic, it's very hard and
therefore not very flexible. However, since the coating is only 0.001
to 0.004 mm thick, it might survive some bending. I've never tried
it:
https://www.wallworkht.co.uk/content/tin/

My best guess(tm) is still a photoshop job because some of the odd
shaped steel bicycle components are difficult to gold plate. For best
quality on steel parts, the item is first copper or brass plated, then
nickel plated, and finally gold plated. Gold can be directly plated
onto aluminum but looks awful unless the aluminum is first polished to
a mirror finish. I also eliminated the application of gold leaf,
which is possible for the large smooth surfaces, but difficult for odd
shapes like gears, levers, and pedals.

Also, Photoshop is a common tool for graphic arts gold bikes:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/PL3dL

But you really, really wouldn't want to get that sculpture dirty.


Not a problem. I'll just use the Photoshop eraser tool to clean up
the bicycle.

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #148  
Old April 27th 21, 04:58 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default I am that out of date

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 19:09:36 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

Many times you can just screw the pedal back in, although I screw
it back in with thread lock and recommended torque because recommended
torque alone may not be enough to keep it in.
-- Jay Beattie.


The forward rotation of the pedals should keep the pedal in place
(unless one likes to pedal backwards).

I suggest Tom try several turns of Teflon tape. If there are any
threads left, the PTFE tape should fill in the gaps, cold flow into
any voids, and center the spindle thread centered. However, I'm not
sure how long such a fix will last if the threads are excessively
stripped out.

Another benefit is that with PTFE tape, you can probably extract the
pedal and try again with more tape, a bigger wrench, or a different
method.


--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #149  
Old April 27th 21, 05:45 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default I am that out of date

On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 8:58:50 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 19:09:36 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

Many times you can just screw the pedal back in, although I screw
it back in with thread lock and recommended torque because recommended
torque alone may not be enough to keep it in.
-- Jay Beattie.

The forward rotation of the pedals should keep the pedal in place
(unless one likes to pedal backwards).

I suggest Tom try several turns of Teflon tape. If there are any
threads left, the PTFE tape should fill in the gaps, cold flow into
any voids, and center the spindle thread centered. However, I'm not
sure how long such a fix will last if the threads are excessively
stripped out.

Another benefit is that with PTFE tape, you can probably extract the
pedal and try again with more tape, a bigger wrench, or a different
method.
--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


That's another good solution, and its good for pedal creaking.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #150  
Old April 27th 21, 01:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default I am that out of date

On 4/26/2021 10:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 22:39:58 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Mon, 26 Apr 2021 08:26:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Nope. It also has gold plated gears, chain, disc brakes, and other
moving parts which are likely to shed gold while riding. This is not
a bicycle intended to be ridden, but rather is intended to be seen.
https://www.beautifullife.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/11/img_big/01_house_of_solid_gold_24k_gold_02.jpg
https://www.beautifullife.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/11/img_big/01_house_of_solid_gold_24k_gold_01.jpg
However, it appears to be a Photoshop job, not a real working bicycle.
Or, if I'm wrong, it may have been gold powder coated, gold painted,
or gold plated like 3CPO.


Or it could be titanium nitride, which would actually work.


Maybe, but I doubt it. Titanium nitride (TiN) tends to have a matt
yellow-gold color:
https://www.google.com/search?q=titanium+nitride&tbm=isch
while genuine gold is more glossy and has slightly more red color:
https://www.google.com/search?q=gold+plating&tbm=isch
It's applied by physical vapor, cathodic arc, or electron beam
deposition in a vacuum. Because it's a ceramic, it's very hard and
therefore not very flexible. However, since the coating is only 0.001
to 0.004 mm thick, it might survive some bending. I've never tried
it:
https://www.wallworkht.co.uk/content/tin/

My best guess(tm) is still a photoshop job because some of the odd
shaped steel bicycle components are difficult to gold plate. For best
quality on steel parts, the item is first copper or brass plated, then
nickel plated, and finally gold plated. Gold can be directly plated
onto aluminum but looks awful unless the aluminum is first polished to
a mirror finish. I also eliminated the application of gold leaf,
which is possible for the large smooth surfaces, but difficult for odd
shapes like gears, levers, and pedals.

Also, Photoshop is a common tool for graphic arts gold bikes:
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/PL3dL

But you really, really wouldn't want to get that sculpture dirty.


Not a problem. I'll just use the Photoshop eraser tool to clean up
the bicycle.


I'm a customer of TiN vapor deposition and yes it's 'satin'
not mirror-shiny.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/NITRIDE.JPG

There was a spate of glitzy bicycles at trade shows in 1985
with one micron gold plate on aluminum parts which were
indeed impressively shiny. That's gold plate on polished
aluminum, not layered 'durable plate'. Excessive polishing
wipes the gold off the high spots so I'd say 'just for looks'.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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