A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Braking while turning



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 18th 03, 04:43 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Braking while turning

One thing I have noticed is how differently bicycles handle when the rear
brake is applied compared to the front brake.

While braking with the front wheel and turning, the rear wheel naturally
swings around follows through the turn. The steering feels the same as if
the brake wasn't applied.

When the rear brake is applied while turning it feels like a force is
pulling rear tire in a straight line backwards causing it to not want to
swing around and follow the path of the front tire. The bike plows though
the turn. Even when the bike is traveling in a straight line the bike
doesn't feel nearly as controllable as it would with the front brake is
applied.

Is there a physics explanation for this? Even the seasoned riders at the
bike shop give me a wierd look when I tell them I hardly ever use the rear
brake.
--
----

Ads
  #2  
Old July 19th 03, 03:16 AM
Phil, Squid-in-Training
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Braking while turning

Is there a physics explanation for this? Even the seasoned riders at the
bike shop give me a wierd look when I tell them I hardly ever use the rear
brake.


FWIW, if you lose traction on the front in a turn, it is very likely you
will crash. If you lose traction on the rear in a turn, it is usually
recoverable unless your lean angle is extreme.

Braking the rear in a turn may cause the rear to skip causing the effects
you mentioned. But when you brake with the front, weight is pushed forward
onto the front wheel and giving it heavier steering, etc.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training


  #3  
Old July 19th 03, 04:17 AM
David L. Johnson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Braking while turning

On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 02:16:20 +0000, Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

Is there a physics explanation for this? Even the seasoned riders at
the bike shop give me a wierd look when I tell them I hardly ever use
the rear brake.


You are doing it right, by the way.

FWIW, if you lose traction on the front in a turn, it is very likely you
will crash. If you lose traction on the rear in a turn, it is usually
recoverable unless your lean angle is extreme.


Yes, if you lose traction on the front in a turn, you will go
down. But you will usually go down if you skid the rear as well, and it
is much, much easier to skid the rear in any circumstances. In good
weather on a good road, it is impossible to skid the front.

Braking the rear in a turn may cause the rear to skip causing the effects
you mentioned. But when you brake with the front, weight is pushed
forward onto the front wheel and giving it heavier steering, etc.


Any braking of either wheel will shift the weight distribution
forward. That is why the rear wheel skids so easily when you apply the
rear brake, since the amount of your weight on the rear can go to near 0.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | The trouble with the rat race is that even if you win you're
_`\(,_ | still a rat. --Lilly Tomlin
(_)/ (_) |


  #4  
Old July 19th 03, 05:27 PM
Phil, Squid-in-Training
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Braking while turning

"g.daniels" wrote in message
om...
WE ARE LOOKING FOR THE LAB'S COMPUTER PRINTOUTS GENERATED BY THE LAB
VEHICLE!!
this inorder! to! pin down the language into numbers. then we can
conceptualize from the other side.
anybody who goes reaaaaalllly deeeeeep into the corners care to
cawment???


LOL - reading this was just too much. Not to be condescending, but is
English your first language?

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training


  #5  
Old July 20th 03, 06:30 AM
Doug
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Braking while turning

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:17:12 -0400, "David L. Johnson"
wrote:

Is there a physics explanation for this? Even the seasoned riders at
the bike shop give me a wierd look when I tell them I hardly ever use
the rear brake.


You are doing it right, by the way.

Yes, if you lose traction on the front in a turn, you will go
down. But you will usually go down if you skid the rear as well, and it


It's an important discussion, I don't mean to be flippant. But I find
there is more to worry about than skidding with the front. If, for
example, a stone large enough to lift the wheel off the ground is hit,
the front wheel will stop. When it hits the ground again, an end over
is a given. So on turns on steep grades coming out of hills like in
Malibu where rocks are prevalent, I am very reluctant to use the front
brake.

is much, much easier to skid the rear in any circumstances. In good
weather on a good road, it is impossible to skid the front.


Good road, good weather. But even then, that lone stone. I just see
too many. I practice rear wheel skids actually to reduce trouble, but
yes, they can be nasty too, although never has one brought me down
(all handful of them).

Doug
  #6  
Old July 20th 03, 11:48 AM
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Braking while turning

"Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:

FWIW, if you lose traction on the front in a turn, it is very likely you
will crash.


Yes, but it will always be a lowside. Because of the forward weight
shift, front wheel traction increases as the brake is applied. This
effect permits more braking while steering than most folks think
possible-- provided the tires are adequate to the task.

If you lose traction on the rear in a turn, it is usually
recoverable unless your lean angle is extreme.


In my experience, if you go into a turn hot enough, or downhill
enough, to have to brake while turning, a slip at either end will put
you on the ground. In those circumstances, it is much easier to lose
the rear. Furthermore, slipping the rear can cause a highside,
flinging you into the land of broken clavicles.

Chalo Colina
  #7  
Old July 20th 03, 04:17 PM
A Muzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Braking while turning

wrote in message
...
One thing I have noticed is how differently bicycles handle when the rear
brake is applied compared to the front brake.

While braking with the front wheel and turning, the rear wheel naturally
swings around follows through the turn. The steering feels the same as if
the brake wasn't applied.

When the rear brake is applied while turning it feels like a force is
pulling rear tire in a straight line backwards causing it to not want to
swing around and follow the path of the front tire. The bike plows though
the turn. Even when the bike is traveling in a straight line the bike
doesn't feel nearly as controllable as it would with the front brake is
applied.

Is there a physics explanation for this? Even the seasoned riders at the
bike shop give me a wierd look when I tell them I hardly ever use the rear
brake.



We've discussed that here before and you're right. Note Sheldon's comments
on applying the rear brake of a tandem with nobody in back.

For a more dramatic example, just increase the speed and vehicle weight. Try
tapping the brakes during an aggressive corner in a rear engine car. You'll
only try that once!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #8  
Old July 20th 03, 07:06 PM
Phil, Squid-in-Training
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Braking while turning

the rear. Furthermore, slipping the rear can cause a highside,
flinging you into the land of broken clavicles.


Really now? In my experience, highsides have been limited to the domain of
motorcycles, where the speeds of the bikes and massive grips of the tires
have the potential to cause a highside.

Uh... wait. I recall highsiding on my MTB commuter once. I landed on my
forearms, so nothing broken. I now have a dolphin-shaped scar on my arm.
Nevermind what I said.

--
Phil, Squid-in-Training


  #9  
Old July 20th 03, 08:43 PM
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Braking while turning

Just how hard are you applying the rear brake? If it feels like your
rear wheel is going straight while the rest of the bike is going through
a turn, you're skidding the rear wheel. And yes, there is a "physics"
reason for this. It's called inertia. An object in motion tends to move
in a straight line unless acted upon by another force. (sic.)

If your front wheel slides out, it too will go in a straight line. With
disastrous results. Actually, the best thing is not to brake at all in a
turn, Do all your braking before.

The tires have a limited amount of "grip" on the pavement, any that's
diverted towards slowing the bike down is being taken away from the
amount holding it in a curved path.

If you must apply brakes in a turn, do so very gently, and it's best, in
this case, to favor the rear. If that gives away, you have a much better
chance of riding it out.

May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!
Chris

Chris'Z Corner
"The Website for the Common Bicyclist":
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

  #10  
Old July 20th 03, 08:47 PM
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Braking while turning

Good road, good weather. But even
then, that lone stone. I just see too
many. I practice rear wheel skids
actually to reduce trouble, but yes, they
can be nasty too, although never has one
brought me down (all handful of them).


Doug


A stone, sand, water, oil, tar (just as Beloki).

May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!
Chris

Chris'Z Corner
"The Website for the Common Bicyclist":
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thoughts on braking John Appleby General 76 August 11th 03 10:30 AM
Braking Technique asqui Racing 55 July 25th 03 04:16 PM
brake pads are wider than braking surface Michael Techniques 2 July 10th 03 05:45 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2022 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.