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Stronger rubber cement?



 
 
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  #171  
Old January 18th 17, 04:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-17 20:42, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 09:47:33 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-17 08:21, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 7:50:18 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 19:28, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie
wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would
you accept it if you :had to pump up the tires of your
car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is
"normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface
area to volume than bike tires. They're also run a
lower pressure, for the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher.
Like my MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race
bikes -- or one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have
peculiar expectations for bicycles. You're theoretically
perfect bike would weigh about 250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants
in a bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle
converted to pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very
harsh conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems
that Joerg does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said
that two factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that
the store that sold their bikes was less than helpful.

Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there
are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb


Care to compare the number of vehicles plus the miles traveled?
Maybe then it becomes more clear. Cars are way more reliable than
bicycles. Especially if you buy top quality cars like we did. Other
than regular scheduled maintenance there were no breakdowns in the
whole two decades we own them. None, as in zero. Not even one flat
tire. Try that with a bicycle.

I just spent $1,200 on a clutch because my dopey son lives in a city
with 20% grades up to stop lights. That does not include the motel
bill and towing when the clutch went belly-up outside of Baker City.
That was after new rear drums, bearings, etc., etc. I've stupidly
re-bought that car -- not including gas and oil changes.


Get a new son 8-)

I drive a stick-shift and have hauled copious amounts of fuel pellets,
lumber, industrial equipment, plus half-ton loads of firewood over some
really bad dirt roads. We have a very hilly terrain including some steep
roads that can scare people. Nothing ever broke.


You mean like http://tinyurl.com/zzywnde ? Note that the road is in
use.


Similar, just with more root bumps because of the pine and oak trees.

I don't do it anymore on account of a worn lower back but the usual
scenario is that someone wants to get rid of their firewood, often for
free. Then you get there and ...

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #172  
Old January 18th 17, 04:45 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-17 20:29, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:55:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 17:18, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 11:03:04 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept it if you
:had to pump up the tires of your car every two weeks? Yet most cyclists
:think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to volume
than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for the most
part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my MTB tires
are.

Have you ever tried to pick up a
truck tire"?


Yes.


A typical 45" truck tire, say a B.F. Goodrich 445/65R-22.5, weighs,
according to the manufacturer some 215 lbs. Standard operating
pressure is in the neighborhood of 120 psi.

Comparing bicycle tires with tires for other vehicles is, to say the
least, a bit silly.

Unless, of course you plan on a 600 lb. bicycle :-)


I meant for pickup trucks. You can get regular tires with a limited
pressure range or slightly more expensive commercial grade ones for much
higher pressure. They make a lot of sense if the truck is going to
operated under a lot of load or on rough turf. A neighbor had them on
his Dodge Dakota and IIRC they were rated at 75psi max. The Dakota is
not even a large pickup truck, more the size of a compact car.

[...]


The Dodge is a probably called a 3/4 ton pickup it is rated at 1,700
lbs load.


I did exceed the rated load a few times, where the leaf spring bumps
into the rubber stops.


Over here you can buy larger wheels to fit pickups, and most people
seem to use them. I bought my Isuzu second-hand and it had large
wheels and tires on it when I bought it



Same here but the Mitsubishi I bought two decades ago came with pretty
good steel rims. Leaf springs in back, torsion bars up front, a
traditional design that does not afford great riding comfort on bumpy
roads but is sturdy.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #173  
Old January 18th 17, 04:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-17 20:21, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:43:37 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 18:04, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 17:11:50 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-16 16:50, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 16 Jan 2017 10:16:51 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-01-05 02:04, Tosspot wrote:
On 04/01/17 20:05, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-03 17:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


Thanks to all responders (also Barry and Doug). I'll order Slime Rubber
Cement with my next Amazon shipment because that's what David uses, he
says it works well and it isn't expensive:

https://www.amazon.com/Slime-1050-Ru.../dp/B003V9UU66

Whatwhat!! Are you *seriously* claiming r.b.t has been useful!? What
ever is the world coming to?


Usenet is very useful, I guess that's where the name comes from. A lot
of hints here go into my bicycle files, in the sense of "If ... ever
breaks consider replacing it with ..." or "If it breaks don't ever use ...".

When I mentioned in a post in a newsgroup that I had bonked, want to
avoid it but can't stand the cyclist astronaut food or any sweet stuff
someone responded with a link to a recipe for homemade non-sweet power
bars. My wife bakes them to this day. Yesterday I shared these bars with
another rider who really likes them as well. Can't buy them anywhere.


Out of curiosity, is your wife's recipe actually free of sugar, in any
form, or it just doesn't taste sweet?


It has a pinch of sugar for some reason, not sure if that can be left
out or replaced with something else. You can't taste it though. While
they also mention just a pinch of salt we add several pinches because in
summer one sweats out a lot of salt here.

Got it only in German but if really interested I could translate it:

http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/14555...sliriegel.html

It's a little more work than it looks like, with the bacon and all that,
and cutting into bars at the end so they can be packed on a bicycle. My
wife puts all of them into the freezer and then moves as many as needed
to the fridge a couple days before rides.

That looks like a recipe for some sort of Oatmeal cookies with bacon,
rather than the usual "power Bar" concept, which is usually something
that your body can get a quick bunch of energy from to replace what
you have lost.


I make sure I eat them during a scheduled break at some nice and scenic
area, not after I begin to feel a hard bonk coming up. The latter is a
mistake I only made once and don't want to experience that again. These
bar get me through the rides quite nicely. Usually 40-45 miles,
partially under a lot of power.


The difference is usually in how fast your body converts carbohydrates
to energy. Simple carbohydrates, essentially sugars, are converted
rapidly and complex carbohydrates like starches are converted much
slower. Which is, of course, why all the energy drinks contain
dextrose or sucrose or some other simple carbs.


This is why I carry dextrose tablets in my first aid kit. So far I never
needed one of those myself but others did.


Back when I was running I "bonked" or may better, "crashed and
burned". I reached the point where even after sitting down and resting
for a while I physically could not run any longer. I would sit down
and rest until I felt better and set off again and within 100 yards,
or less, wouldn't be able to run any more.



That is exactly how one MTB ride ended for me. I still had to ride about
10 miles home and did. Unfortunately mostly uphill. Those 10 miles took
me about two hours and several times I had the urge to just plop myself
into the grass and sleep. Luckily I was riding with a friend who made
sure I didn't do that. Early on he gave me a liquid energy pack but it
didn't help at all. I guess once you are in the bonk it's too late.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #174  
Old January 18th 17, 06:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,346
Default Stronger rubber cement?

John B. wrote:
:On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 07:55:50 -0800, Joerg
:wrote:
:
:I meant for pickup trucks. You can get regular tires with a limited
:pressure range or slightly more expensive commercial grade ones for much
:higher pressure. They make a lot of sense if the truck is going to
:operated under a lot of load or on rough turf. A neighbor had them on
:his Dodge Dakota and IIRC they were rated at 75psi max. The Dakota is
:not even a large pickup truck, more the size of a compact car.
:
:[...]

:The Dodge is a probably called a 3/4 ton pickup it is rated at 1,700
:lbs load.

If the dakota is called anything, it's a quarter ton truck. A half
tun is dodge ram 1500 (payload just less than 2000 pounds, for the
current model) or an F150 (payload to 2300 pounds). Yes, that makes
no sense.


--
sig 33
  #175  
Old January 18th 17, 06:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 7:36:44 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-17 15:26, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
analog,

I will not explain tire mounting again. Retard at your own speed


I have explained to you that these are _flat_ rims. Hard to understand?


The Argent rim is just a Mod E2. Right? http://equusbicycle.com/bike/mavic/images/11and12.jpg Pretty standard rim of the era. Get VAR lever. It lifts the bead over the rim. Your problems will be solved. Getting another tire or rim will also solve your problems. Most people will not wrestle with a tire for a half-an-hour, at least not more than once.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #176  
Old January 18th 17, 06:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-18 09:18, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 7:36:44 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-17 15:26, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:
analog,

I will not explain tire mounting again. Retard at your own speed


I have explained to you that these are _flat_ rims. Hard to
understand?


The Argent rim is just a Mod E2. Right?



Mine are Mavic Module “3” Argent “D”. Almost flat inside.


http://equusbicycle.com/bike/mavic/images/11and12.jpg Pretty
standard rim of the era. Get VAR lever. It lifts the bead over the
rim. Your problems will be solved. Getting another tire or rim will
also solve your problems. Most people will not wrestle with a tire
for a half-an-hour, at least not more than once.


I have broken many high quality levers on those and bike shop owners
have confirmed that issue. When they say "Good luck getting them on" you
know what you are up to.

The thick tubes I have do not exactly help in keeping the bead towards
the center but I made myself Delrin pieces to do that. The relief that
this provides is very limited though, as evidenced by the fact that even
with thin tubes Gatorskins are really hard to mount onto these rims.

Fact is, the Vredestein tires always went on with ease and the Gatorskin
tires do not. Huge difference. However, the Vredesteins had too many
flats. So, I am looking for a tire that is very puncture-resistant, has
sturdy side walls _and_ is easy to mount. Eventually I will find one and
then buy a stack of them. Just like I did for the MTB where I found
three brands that work well.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #177  
Old January 18th 17, 07:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,041
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 5:52:14 PM UTC-6, Barry Beams wrote:

Tubulars by design are more puncture resistant than clinchers.
Continental tubulars are amazingly puncture resistant tires. My Sprinters have never flatted on me and are my standard tire when on road bike rides.. Only their extra-light stuff like Podiums have ever flatted on me.



Nonsense. Tubulars do not use heavier duty rubber for the tread. Tubulars do not use higher strength cloth/fabric for the sidewalls. Tubulars are not more puncture resistant than similar clinchers. Tubulars are made different, construction technique. They use the same materials as clinchers. I have used Sprinter tubulars and have flatted them several times. Was not too hard to mount the spare I carried and be on my way.
  #178  
Old January 18th 17, 07:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,041
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 8:10:41 PM UTC-6, John B. wrote:
I have a set of wheels with sew ups somewhere. I last used them maybe
40 years ago. I've never raced, so sew ups offer no benefits to me. I
wonder if they still will hold air?


When you have a flat they are much faster to fix. Just rip the flat
off the rim and stick on another from the collection you have strapped
under the seat :-)

John B.


Have you ever fixed a tubular on the side of the road? Or even in the shop at home? No one just rips off the flat tubular and quickly sticks the new one on the rim. Does not happen that way in the real world. Maybe in fantasy land. Tubulars are glued on very well. It takes a lot of pulling and prying to get a little bit of the tire off the rim. Then a lot of strength to slowly pull the rest of the tire off the rim. Several minutes of work or more. Then to put the new one on, you better pray it is well stretched on an old rim. You start at one side and slowly work it onto the rim with old glue. Slowly pulling it on. Then the last few inches you strain and stress until maybe hopefully you get it on. Then you spend several more minutes trying to get the tire somewhat straight on the rim. The old glue does not allow the tire to be moved very easily. Keep living in your fantasy world.
  #179  
Old January 18th 17, 08:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 1/17/2017 1:56 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-17 10:36, jbeattie wrote:


So what your saying is that I pay nothing extra insurance-wise for
owning a bike. It is covered by insurance that I already own. (:
OTOH, there are whole other things called "auto insurance policies"
-- specially for autos! And they cost a lot! ):


That is the same as saying that welfare costs us nothing. _Everyone_ is
paying for the risk of cycling including home owners who never ride. Is
that fair? I don't think so but that's the way it is.


Oh, quit the bull**** about the "risks of cycling." There have been at
least five different studies on the risks vs. benefits of cycling,
measured in different ways - for example, health care dollars spent vs.
saved, years of life lost vs. gained, etc. EVERY study found that
cycling is by FAR a net benefit.

So in insurance terms, you've got things backwards. _Everyone_ is
getting reduced insurance premiums and reduced health care costs from
cycling, even the people who never ride.

IOW, quit the "Danger! Danger!" implications. You may ride like an
idiot, but even you don't tip the scales in the direction you claim.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #180  
Old January 18th 17, 08:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 1/17/2017 8:51 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jan 2017 10:27:27 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/16/2017 11:10 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 10:28:41 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 4:23:53 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 13:39, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 2:39:18 PM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, January 16, 2017 at 11:03:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-16 10:43, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:

:Yup. Standard bicycle tubes are usually junk. Would you accept
it if you :had to pump up the tires of your car every two
weeks? Yet most cyclists :think this is "normal".

Automotive tires have a much lower ratio of surface area to
volume than bike tires. They're also run a lower pressure, for
the most part.


Truck tires are often operated around 50psi or higher. Like my
MTB tires are.

A truck tire weights as a much as TWO UCI minimum race bikes -- or
one DH bike. Now throw in the rim. You have peculiar expectations
for bicycles. You're theoretically perfect bike would weigh about
250lbs.

-- Jay Beattie.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Joerg's wants in a
bicycle are would be met by a 250cc dirt-motorcycle converted to
pedal power and the engine removed.

I find it astounding that so many others who ride in very harsh
conditions do NOT have the breakages or other problems that Joerg
does.


According to several bicycle shop owners they do. Many said that two
factors allowed them to survive as a business:

1. Mountain bikers breaking stuff all the time.

2. Department store bike buyers who needed help and found that the store
that sold their bikes was less than helpful.

Unlike cars, which never need to be fixed, and that's why there are no auto repair shops. http://tinyurl.com/jba5fgb

-- Jay Beattie.

Read Joerg's post from over the years and you'll see that Joerg takes great delight in complaining. Joerg does not want/need a bicycle - he needs/wants a pedal powered motorcycle.

For his bicycle he should just buy solid rubber tires and be done with every needing to fix a flat or pump them up.


Seriously, Joerg, why are you _not_ using solid tires? (I mean, except
for the general principle that nothing ever works for Joerg.)

Yes, they would be heavy and slow, but you've said dozens of times that
you don't care about that. They would be rugged and thorn proof. The
sidewalls would never blow out.

Is it because you'd have to stop typing your sound effects?
("Kabloooeeee!")


After the "Ka pow" post I got to thinking. I've never seen a tire
sidewall fail except when the tire was run with no, or very low,
pressure. It is fairly common on large trucks. One tire of a dual tire
set gets a leak and runs flat for a while and the heat build up causes
the tire to nearly disintegrate. My wife had one a while ago. Never
checks her tires and set off on a 300 Km trip on a high speed highway
with "soft" tires. Ka pow!


I've suffered a few explosive blowouts over the years. The first
occurred when our custom tandem was brand new, tires installed that
afternoon but not yet ridden, while the bike was sitting indoors. I
assume that I had the tube pinched under the tire bead. That was an
old-style rim without a hooked bead.

Two happened from extreme heat. One was the southern sun blazing down
on the top of a borrowed tubular. The hole was right through the tread
surface at the top. Another was and Avocet slick, discovered when I
returned to my car, parked in the sun with the bike inside. That may
have ripped the sidewall away from the bead, IIRC.

I had several sidewall bubbles on a long tour with Conti Top Touring
2000 tires, but no blowouts. I reinforced things by duct-taping around
the tube to take the stress until I could replace the tires.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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