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Stronger rubber cement?



 
 
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  #51  
Old January 4th 17, 08:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-04 10:28, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 4 Jan 2017 12:29:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/3/2017 11:23 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:


Contact cement. It's a neoprene rubber based goo that remains fairly
flexible if applied in a very thin layer. Smear some on both the tire
and the patch, let air dry for at least 10 minutes (longer is better),
and stick together with a little compression pressure. I've used a
roller, two blocks of wood and a C-clamp, and beating on the sandwich
with a hammer. They all work.


I generally change tubes on the road, then patch the leaking tube at home.


Same here. However, I don't ride enough to get very many flats. The
bane of my life are leaking tubes. Even brand new tubes (Nashbar's
cheapest) tend to leak. I've done a bubble test and usually find pin
holes at random location. It's not worth the effort doing the full
patch job for a pin hole, so I just stretch the tube so I can see the
hole, fill it with rubber cement, wipe off the excess, and let it dry.
That works, until a new pinhole appears.

Then, there are the leaky tire valves, usually because I've lost the
caps and the valve is full of dirt. Sigh.


Try these:

https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-Thorn.../dp/B000BMT2TM

I never looked back. Reviews are mixed and sometimes they do have poor
valve attachment. Also, some are thick only towards the running surface
and that is less protecting than thick all around.

So ask before buying in order to be able to return if not as promised.
As Forest Gump said, "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know
what you gonna get".

The thicker a tube the better it usually is.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #52  
Old January 4th 17, 09:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-04 11:52, David Scheidt wrote:
Joerg wrote:
: :them my result were less stellar than in Europe with the classic kits.
: :Those contain much thicker patches that looked like round chunks of
: :tube, sometimes slightly beveled. Can't find those here in the US.
:
: Rema patches in action:
: https://scontent.ford4-1.fna.fbcdn.n...bb&oe=58E69CCC
:
: https://scontent.ford4-1.fna.fbcdn.n...9c&oe=58E45D94
:
: That tube is still in service, two years later.
:

:Impressive. I wouldn't even have tried to repair that one.

:One significant difference is that my tubes are much thicker in their
:walls. 3mm on the road bike and 4mm on the MTB. So the tube material is
:many times thicker than REMA patches.

:
: :The question is why would be the good ones to buy?
:
: I use rema f1, which are round and 25 mm in diameter. Box of 100
: costs ~20 bucks. A half pint bottle of vulcanizing flouid, which will
: do hundreds of patches, and last for years (mine has been in my dsk
: for five years) costs ~$10 at an auto parts store (very expensive to
: ship, buy local.).
:


:The "Slime" brand is cheaper. Do you think the one below works as well?
:I was not impressed with their self-healing tubes but this seems to be
ther stuff.

:https://www.amazon.com/Slime-1050-Ru.../dp/B003V9UU66

That's what's in my desk at work. Works fine.


Thanks. I shall order that along with our next Amazon shipment.


:Also, I'd like to cement on real (thicker) tube material instead of REMA
atches. Don't see a reason why this shouldn't be possible.

There's a really good one: The working surface of a patch is made of
unvulcanized rubber. A tube is vulcanized. With vulcanized rubber on
both sides, there will only be weak cross-linking, and it won't be
good bond. Go ahead and try it, but expect failure. Repair units
exist for a reason.


Ok, then I'll have to order patches as well. I wonder what they were
selling in Europe. It was black, much thicker than REMA and looked like
tube rubber. But had a peel-off surface in back. We'll have German
guests in October, maybe I can have some shipped to their house.

Do REMA patches have an expiration date?

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #53  
Old January 4th 17, 09:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On 2017-01-03 17:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


Thanks to all responders (also Barry and Doug). I'll order Slime Rubber
Cement with my next Amazon shipment because that's what David uses, he
says it works well and it isn't expensive:

https://www.amazon.com/Slime-1050-Ru.../dp/B003V9UU66


--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #54  
Old January 4th 17, 11:16 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
(PeteCresswell)
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Posts: 2,790
Default Stronger rubber cement?

Per Joerg:
I always carry a spare tube. So far only used for other riders.


I started carrying at least on extra after getting a flat in
mud in the middle of a field during heavy rain.

Rain can be a real deal-breaker when it comes time to patching a flat.
--
Pete Cresswell
  #55  
Old January 5th 17, 12:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Mike A Schwab
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Posts: 443
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 7:04:38 PM UTC-6, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Larger patches available in Farm supply stores. Here is an online store for glue and large patches. http://www.patchrubber.com/tire_repair/14201.html
  #56  
Old January 5th 17, 12:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_6_]
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Posts: 2,202
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 08:59:30 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per John B.:
when I open a sealed tube, in the kit on the bike, I
replace it with another sealed one as find the glue has dried up is
not quite so much of a catastrophe at home


Ever since I opened a virgin, unopened tube (at home, thankfully) and
found it had dried up, I write the purchase date on each tube and carry
at least two unopened tubes in my patch kit.

Probably wretched excess, since I always carry at least one spare inner
tube - and sometimes two...


I carry one spare tube for local rides and two if I'm going further
AND a tire patching kit :-)

This "logic" originated with a ride where I flatted twice in a 1 Km.
distance.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #57  
Old January 5th 17, 12:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,345
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 9:53:05 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 08:37, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 7:41:16 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-04 06:26,
wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 at 5:04:38 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in
the patch kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or
where multiple cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side
wall blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of
an inch long. The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore,
expensive. $15-20 each and that's not something to be thrown
out lightly. Instead of the li'l REMA patches I need to use
thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube but this has to be
vulcanized/cemented really well.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Jeorg, considering the amount and extent of flats that you get
perhaps you should observe Tosspot's recommendations:

http://www.tyre-equipment.co.uk/acat...-PSF_Plus.html




:-)

I don't get many flats but if I do they are nasty tears on the
sides where tubes flex all the time. Caused by side wall failures
of tires.

So I need something that is super strong in the vulcanizing process
and where the tube or can contents won't dry out after just a few
months of storage. I always fix at home so cold storage and the
necessity to use pressure tools and such would be no problem.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Considering that you get sidewall failures you should probably only
use tires that have bead to bead belts and also high thread-count
cords. Doing so would give you a dramatic drop in the failures.



That was the reason for the tire thread a while ago. Retroguybilly
suggested CST Correre but they don't come in 25mm. I will try their
Conquistare tires which supposedly are 3-ply in the sidewalls.
Unfortunately only for the foldable versions.

The Gatorskin Hardshells are claimed to have improved side walls as well
but I am concerned that they also run too small like regular Gatorskins.
I am tired of having to wrestle them on. They do have good life span
though and I get 2500mi out of a rear tire. Most other riders with other
tires out here get 2000mi or less.


If
you're getting failures of Gatorskins that must be some sort of
terrain you commute on.


It's unavoidable out here. There is often the occasional "Pavement ends
in 200ft" or plain old singletrack that has to be conquered by road bike
to get to another town. Like at least once a week he

https://goo.gl/maps/fyCyQs3MC6x

This is also why my road bike is almost as dirty as my MTB. Which causes
another problem for the side walls. A week ago I stopped because of a
weird phhhsssrrt... phhhsssrrt noise. Turns out mud had caked in the
crown of the fork, dried up and was rubbing against the tire.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Because of my loss of memory it really irritates me to see a picture like that and know that I've ridden that route on a road bike and yet I can only recognize it if I do it again. It's like the Aptos ride we do. Not only did I recognize every inch of it but I had to be LED because I couldn't remember which turns to take.

We did a San Geronimo ride a month and a half ago and I remembered the restaurant we had lunch in and the route out even though I couldn't remember the route in.
  #58  
Old January 5th 17, 12:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 3,345
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 10:00:50 AM UTC-8, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2017 07:27:48 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

I'll look into contact cement. Gene also suggested that. Cost is not so
much an issue but shelf life after opening is. The usual rubber cement
is toast only a few months after opening.


I've had the same experience. The problem with the leaking bottles
and tubes seems to be related to heat. My squeeze tube of contact
cement doesn't last very long after it's used once, so I'm not sure
that looking for a better glue is the right answer. A better way to
prevent outgassing seems to be a better approach. As David Scheidt
suggests, buying the rubber cement or whatever in a can lasts much
longer. I keep my can inside a plastic Ziploc bag, which seems to
help. I've considered putting it inside a glass jar, and pressurizing
the jar to above the vapor pressure of the solvent to limit loss by
evaporation. I've done this with some chemicals and drugs, but never
tried it with glue.

Also, be sure to test the strength of your contact cement joint.
There's nothing stronger than a vulcanized bond, so I'm fairly sure
that contact cement will not be as strong as a proper vulcanizing
patch. Whether it's strong enough is the question.

It also has to become a pliable connection because those cuts are on the
side walls. Ever since moving to tire liners plus thich tubes plus thick
tire surfaces I don't get "regular" flats via running surface punctures
anymore.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


The Rema cement is empty after you crack the top and then don't use it for a couple of months.
  #59  
Old January 5th 17, 12:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH
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Posts: 2,011
Default Stronger rubber cement?

contact cement can renew with acetone or MEK.

again, the can/tube closure is done thus

tube.....squeeze air ot rollup bottom squarely until bottom tube foldind dams against the remaining interior substance....that is oozing out the nozzle

for the oozing you have prepared a patch of grocery bar plastic, cleaned threads of nozzle and cap plus examening cap for washers, rings of dry substance...

squeeze oze of substance from nozzle by pushing on the bottom roll fold...you have a fold of rolled up bottom held against the substance bulge ...and COVER THE OOZE WITH PATCH THEN SCREW THE CAP ON TIGHT BUT DOAHN SPLIT THE CAP.

always keep caps in a cap bin. when the locktite cap blows away there's another in the bin.

||||||||||||

for the can clean threads, size patch n if necessary cut a small X in the middle for the cap brush n stalk.

test cap n threads

find the pipe wrench/channel locks

https://www.google.com/search?site=i...&q=channelocks

or large vise grips

cover opening with patch, or insert brush thru partch hole ....cover hole trying for a unfolded cover of threads from the patch ...

screw cap on ...and tighten slightly with the pliers.

remove cap ? with the pliers

IHS


  #60  
Old January 5th 17, 12:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 3,345
Default Stronger rubber cement?

On Wednesday, January 4, 2017 at 12:05:54 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-01-03 17:04, Joerg wrote:
Gentlemen,

Is there something stronger than the usual rubber cement in the patch
kits? Ideally something that won't dry out so fast or where multiple
cheap small tubes are available.

The reason is that I sometimes have larger holes from side wall
blow-outs. Not inch-long gashes but one or two tenths of an inch long.
The tubes I use are super thick and, therefore, expensive. $15-20 each
and that's not something to be thrown out lightly. Instead of the li'l
REMA patches I need to use thicker rubber from an older sacrified tube
but this has to be vulcanized/cemented really well.


Thanks to all responders (also Barry and Doug). I'll order Slime Rubber
Cement with my next Amazon shipment because that's what David uses, he
says it works well and it isn't expensive:

https://www.amazon.com/Slime-1050-Ru.../dp/B003V9UU66


--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


That "rubber cement" isn't for gluing rubber. It's an elastic finish if memory serves.
 




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