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Cyclists and pedestrians in LA
http://ktla.com/2018/04/11/1-person-...n-crash-video/
Video is dramatic. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#2
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Cyclists and pedestrians in LA
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:29:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
Video is dramatic. Never been to LA; looking at this and related articles it seems that similar rageful inidents are on the upswing. We've had an increase in car-pedestrian collisions locally. I am not sure if we've seenthe same intentional harming by drivers but there have been a number of well-publicized hit-and-runs. A few years ago a law was passed requiring drivers to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, whether marked as such or not. When walking I find that feels much less safe because some cars stop and some don't. The law was well-intentioned and aimed at reducing injuries, but it seems to have had the opposite effect. There's been something of an upswing in car-pedestrian injuries in particular. Car-bike injuries are less frequent and it's harder to identify trends with (thankfully) few data points- just one such accident increases or decreases the numbers by 20-25%. Good if we can keep it that way. https://tinyurl.com/stpaulcar-ped-bike Looking at the LA story, it seems as though the driver left the scene and then came back, speeding through a red light and striking the victim as well as nearly striking others. Does that make it intentional under the law (vehicular assault or something like that)? I know nothing about California law. I also question the vigil blocking the public throughfare. Seems to me that the point of the vigil could be made without that. Dunno, I guess I am inclined to support civil disobedience rather than civil disruption. We had some of that a couple of years ago with a prolonged Black Lives Matter protest in front of the governor's mansion. That was fine and I thought effective as well (although I know many people who were annoyed by it and thought it should have been suppressed after a day or two, which I didn't understand- it's the protesters' time to do with as they choose); subsequently blocking an interstate highway in protest was not (that highway has a troublesome history within the local black community, so I get why the action was taken but IMHO it was not helpful to their cause to do so). |
#3
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Cyclists and pedestrians in LA
On 4/13/2018 11:57 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:29:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote: Video is dramatic. Never been to LA; looking at this and related articles it seems that similar rageful inidents are on the upswing. We've had an increase in car-pedestrian collisions locally. I am not sure if we've seenthe same intentional harming by drivers but there have been a number of well-publicized hit-and-runs. A few years ago a law was passed requiring drivers to stop for pedestrians in crosswalks, whether marked as such or not. When walking I find that feels much less safe because some cars stop and some don't. The law was well-intentioned and aimed at reducing injuries, but it seems to have had the opposite effect. There's been something of an upswing in car-pedestrian injuries in particular. Car-bike injuries are less frequent and it's harder to identify trends with (thankfully) few data points- just one such accident increases or decreases the numbers by 20-25%. Good if we can keep it that way. https://tinyurl.com/stpaulcar-ped-bike Looking at the LA story, it seems as though the driver left the scene and then came back, speeding through a red light and striking the victim as well as nearly striking others. Does that make it intentional under the law (vehicular assault or something like that)? I know nothing about California law. I also question the vigil blocking the public throughfare. Seems to me that the point of the vigil could be made without that. Dunno, I guess I am inclined to support civil disobedience rather than civil disruption. We had some of that a couple of years ago with a prolonged Black Lives Matter protest in front of the governor's mansion. That was fine and I thought effective as well (although I know many people who were annoyed by it and thought it should have been suppressed after a day or two, which I didn't understand- it's the protesters' time to do with as they choose); subsequently blocking an interstate highway in protest was not (that highway has a troublesome history within the local black community, so I get why the action was taken but IMHO it was not helpful to their cause to do so). Out here in the real world, every solution brings its own new problems: https://nltimes.nl/2018/04/13/dutch-...fic-assoc-says not just in Minnesota either! -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#4
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Cyclists and pedestrians in LA
On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 14:55:40 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/13/2018 11:57 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:29:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote: Video is dramatic. snip my blather Out here in the real world, every solution brings its own new problems: https://nltimes.nl/2018/04/13/dutch-...fic-assoc-says not just in Minnesota either! Some of that is evident on the local bike trails here. People in tri-bike training mode on the aero, road race training mode, a very few e-bikes. The speed limit on most of the trails is 10 mph, if you're going faster you're supposed to be in the street (although quite a few miles of trails have no adjacent street). So with that, and with the 8-mph-four-abreast riders and the wobbly drunks and the wobbly little 'uns, there are frequently frayed tempers and harsh words on the not-so-Minnesota-nice trails. My firsthand experience of last summer is one I hope to never repeat! |
#5
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Cyclists and pedestrians in LA
On Monday, April 16, 2018 at 11:41:04 PM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2018 14:55:40 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 4/13/2018 11:57 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:29:50 -0500, AMuzi wrote: Video is dramatic. snip my blather Out here in the real world, every solution brings its own new problems: https://nltimes.nl/2018/04/13/dutch-...fic-assoc-says not just in Minnesota either! Some of that is evident on the local bike trails here. People in tri-bike training mode on the aero, road race training mode, a very few e-bikes. The speed limit on most of the trails is 10 mph, if you're going faster you're supposed to be in the street (although quite a few miles of trails have no adjacent street). So with that, and with the 8-mph-four-abreast riders and the wobbly drunks and the wobbly little 'uns, there are frequently frayed tempers and harsh words on the not-so-Minnesota-nice trails. My firsthand experience of last summer is one I hope to never repeat! I was at a public meeting recently where a person who walks on a local MUP (a wide one, actually a roadway that was closed) asked if there could be painted stripes to separate peds from cyclists, because the cyclists often pass too closely. The officials who were present nodded thoughtfully and said they'd consider it. (I doubt they really will.) The bicyclists who were present said nothing. But we know that peds are at fault as often as cyclists. Some walk close to the edge, but some walk almost on the painted center line, meaning it's tricky to choose which side to pass. Many have earbuds and are thus functionally deaf. Some walk four or five abreast. Many have dogs on long leashes. Many change direction suddenly and without warning. But there is no way of imposing orderly behavior on pedestrians, and I don't believe we should try. I figure walking is the ultimate in "grandfathered" behavior. The mistake here is reckoning that cyclists and peds will mix easily and well. And I recognize the tempting analogy with cars & bikes. But segregated ped facilities can work, largely because peds can easily see 360 degrees and can stop or turn instantaneously. Bikes have much more limited maneuverability and much longer stopping distances, not to mention far higher potential speeds. Bikes must be treated as vehicles; and once that happens, bike segregation can't work well where there are intersections, unless immense fortunes are spent on exotic designs, or unless the culture accepts serious travel delay from dedicated green light phases. Most of what I wrote is about peds vs. bikes, but it's true that some of the same conflicts exist between faster and slower cyclists. IME the slower ones are the least predictable. But those are the same ones who would be least likely, or least capable of, obeying stricter rules. Rodney King said "Can't we all just get along?" Sadly, I'm not optimistic. - Frank Krygowski |
#6
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Cyclists and pedestrians in LA
On Tue, 17 Apr 2018 09:56:56 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote: Rodney King said "Can't we all just get along?" Sadly, I'm not optimistic. If we could, we would. Peace is easier and cheaper than conflict. As one of the vets in Ken Burns's "Vietnam" documentary series pointed out, "we're not the dominant species on this planet because we're nice." |
#7
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Cyclists and pedestrians in LA
On 4/13/2018 12:57 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
There's been something of an upswing in car-pedestrian injuries in particular. Car-bike injuries are less frequent and it's harder to identify trends with (thankfully) few data points- just one such accident increases or decreases the numbers by 20-25%. Good if we can keep it that way. https://tinyurl.com/stpaulcar-ped-bike So 36 pedestrian injuries plus one pedestrian fatality, vs. 4 cyclist injuries and no fatalities. Yet lots of people are afraid to ride a bike, and almost none are afraid to walk. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#8
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Cyclists and pedestrians in LA
On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 3:53:21 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
So 36 pedestrian injuries plus one pedestrian fatality, vs. 4 cyclist injuries and no fatalities. Yet lots of people are afraid to ride a bike, and almost none are afraid to walk. -- - Frank Krygowski Similar. The murderous Second Amendment gun nuts could also say the vast majority of gun deaths in the USA are from suicide. NOT from the murderous Chicago gangsters murdering the good, saintly caucasians on their way to church every day. There are twice, double, 200% as many people killed by guns from suicide than murdered by guns. But we must have guns to protect ourselves from the murderous thugs, despite there is twice, double, 200% as much chance that you, your wife, child will put the gun in their mouth and blow their head off. |
#10
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Cyclists and pedestrians in LA
On Friday, April 13, 2018 at 8:27:56 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
Oh by the way Chicago had roughly as meany deaths by Heroin as gunshots in 2016 and 2017. Wanna ban Heroin? Oh, right we're working on that- for the past 100 years or so. Stay tuned. So do you want heroin to be legally sold in groceries? Or what? - Frank Krygowski |
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