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electric bikes on centuries
In article ,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote: As I'm reading an article in this-morning's San Jose Mercury News about newfound popularity of electric bikes, and their limitations (max speeds 25mph or less; need to be recharged after 8-20 miles), I'm thinking yeah, same old stuff that's been out there, heavy, expensive to repair, cause parts & frame failures on modified bikes etc. Then the article mentioned that an engineer has a recumbent design he's trying to bring to market that will go over 100 miles on a charge, at speeds greater than 30mph. And at that point I'm wondering- What's gonna happen when people try to show up on a century (or, for that matter, any other organized bike ride) on one of them? So far, it's been a non-issue due to limited range. But if that's no longer an issue... Well...I would think that on one hand, it hardly makes sense to keep their times, but on the other hand, an electric (or electric-assist) bike is not a completely horrible thing. Some of it depends on your jurisdiction: locally an electric-assist bike that has an electric-powered top speed of less than 32 km/h on level ground and "a continuous power rating of less than 500 watts" is usable as if it were a bicycle (no license, no registration, use bike lanes, etc.) http://scooterteq.com/ebike_regs_bc.htm My inclination is for charity rides and casual or popular group rides to allow an "electric-assist" category because such riders aren't really likely to cause a problem (at least as long as their batteries last...). I think the bright line would pretty much be randonees of any type, since the finishing times are logged (though these are not races). Moreover, the rule with randos is that you can draft any vehicle on the course, but you can't prearrange for a drafting vehicle. E-bikes in the same ride add a new wrinkle, and are a bit bigger problem than the occasional tandemist (heck, the last time I did the Pacific Populaire, I didn't see a tandem rig after the first 50 feet; I was in with the fast group). That said, my bet is the first person to try doing an organized century on an E-bike will either DNF or be fully self-propelled for the last quarter of the ride. -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos |
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#12
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electric bikes on centuries
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote: As I'm reading an article in this-morning's San Jose Mercury News about newfound popularity of electric bikes, and their limitations (max speeds 25mph or less; need to be recharged after 8-20 miles), I'm thinking yeah, same old stuff that's been out there, heavy, expensive to repair, cause parts & frame failures on modified bikes etc. Then the article mentioned that an engineer has a recumbent design he's trying to bring to market that will go over 100 miles on a charge, at speeds greater than 30mph. And at that point I'm wondering- What's gonna happen when people try to show up on a century (or, for that matter, any other organized bike ride) on one of them? So far, it's been a non-issue due to limited range. But if that's no longer an issue... --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReactionBicycles.com If you're running an organized event, you may want to check with the local jurisdiction. Whether or not these electric bikes are legal on public roads varies from town to town..... I would guess if it's an organized event, you cannot allow them if they are illegal where you are riding, but otherwise, if it's a timed event either have a separate category for "power assisted bikes" or just make them ineligible for competition purposes. But as others said, just for the social aspect, or the "doing somthing other than being a couch potato", then why not allow them to ride (unless there's a saftey problem that I don't know about) Janet |
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electric bikes on centuries
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:32:39 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote: Why would anyone with one of these want to ride with pedal cyclist? Frankly, I don't thing these people will be interested in organzied 'bike' rides. Disagree. I've known some regular sag drivers that were there because physical difficulties prevented them from riding with their spouse. I'd bet better than even money that if they had an electric bike that didn't make them stand out (as a moped would), they would have been on it, riding in the group. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
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electric bikes on centuries
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
snip That said, my bet is the first person to try doing an organized century on an E-bike will either DNF or be fully self-propelled for the last quarter of the ride. Would you be willing to help them finish if they were towing the LIVEDRUNK- tm cooler? -- Bill Asher |
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electric bikes on centuries
Curtis L. Russell wrote:
:: On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 15:32:39 -0500, "Roger Zoul" :: wrote: :: ::: Why would anyone with one of these want to ride with pedal cyclist? ::: Frankly, I don't thing these people will be interested in organzied ::: 'bike' rides. :: :: Disagree. I've known some regular sag drivers that were there because :: physical difficulties prevented them from riding with their spouse. :: I'd bet better than even money that if they had an electric bike that :: didn't make them stand out (as a moped would), they would have been :: on it, riding in the group. Perhaps. We'll see. My guess is it won't happen. What kind of electric bike do you envision that will ever do a century that will actually make them not stand out? How big of a battery and motor are we talking here to push someone 100 miles over possibly hilly (around here) terrain? Zipping along at 30 mph alone would make anyone stand out. I grant you this. If you can get an electric bike that does this while not making the rider stand out significantly, then people would very likely do so. |
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electric bikes on centuries
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:01:31 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote: Perhaps. We'll see. My guess is it won't happen. What kind of electric bike do you envision that will ever do a century that will actually make them not stand out? How big of a battery and motor are we talking here to push someone 100 miles over possibly hilly (around here) terrain? Zipping along at 30 mph alone would make anyone stand out. The comment was based on the original premise, and the people I was talking about would have been riding with their spouses, so make that somewhere in the 12-15 mph group. What, you only drive your car near the peg on the speedometer? Guess that makes you stand out too. Second, I don't expect that the bike will actually exist soon. If the technology comes about to run some of the electric cars at the auto shows, the bike may show up a few years later. So it would be about 2015 or so, and not my immediate concern. The various transportation designs that have small motors at the individual wheels would IMO yield a perfect base for such a bike motor, but it isn't feasible yet for the market. (My understanding that there is a Japanese car that is functional with small, powerful electric motors at each wheel, but which are prohibitively expensive). Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
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electric bikes on centuries
On 29 Jan 2007 17:54:27 GMT, William Asher wrote:
Ryan Cousineau wrote: snip That said, my bet is the first person to try doing an organized century on an E-bike will either DNF or be fully self-propelled for the last quarter of the ride. Would you be willing to help them finish if they were towing the LIVEDRUNK- tm cooler? One would hope that we all finish enough centuries that if they were towing the LIVEDRUNK cooler, we would have the good judgement to stay behind and help lighten the load. There is always next week to finish another century. I always thought about towing a loaded trailer behind the tandem, with the intent to ride the slowest allowable century rather than the fastest. I think we could do two standard coolers and a 5 gallon round one of lemonade. |
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electric bikes on centuries
Curtis L. Russell wrote:
:: On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 13:01:31 -0500, "Roger Zoul" :: wrote: :: ::: Perhaps. We'll see. My guess is it won't happen. What kind of ::: electric bike do you envision that will ever do a century that will ::: actually make them not stand out? How big of a battery and motor ::: are we talking here to push someone 100 miles over possibly hilly ::: (around here) terrain? Zipping along at 30 mph alone would make ::: anyone stand out. :: :: The comment was based on the original premise, and the people I was :: talking about would have been riding with their spouses, so make that :: somewhere in the 12-15 mph group. What, you only drive your car near :: the peg on the speedometer? Guess that makes you stand out too. Not in my car....but on a bike if I could get near 30 mph I would, because it's fun. I'd certainly be a standout. :: :: Second, I don't expect that the bike will actually exist soon. If the :: technology comes about to run some of the electric cars at the auto :: shows, the bike may show up a few years later. So it would be about :: 2015 or so, and not my immediate concern. The various transportation :: designs that have small motors at the individual wheels would IMO :: yield a perfect base for such a bike motor, but it isn't feasible yet :: for the market. (My understanding that there is a Japanese car that :: is functional with small, powerful electric motors at each wheel, but :: which are prohibitively expensive). This would yeild an electric motorcycle, not a bicycle. Bring on the mopeds! It won't happen for at least 20 years, if then, I'd say. Small for a car can be huge on a bike. |
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electric bikes on centuries
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:09:09 -0500, "Roger Zoul"
wrote: This would yeild an electric motorcycle, not a bicycle. Bring on the mopeds! Well, two on-line dictionaries only differentiate based on the size of the motor - both say a bicycle can have a small motor, so its going to depend on the size (both also say a motorcycle has a 'powerful' motor, so it looks almost as if one stole from the other...). Get back to me in 2015 and we'll see who owes who the beer. 30 mph and under that can be carried up a flight of stairs and you buy; failing either of the above and I will. Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
#20
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electric bikes on centuries
On 2007-01-29, Curtis L Russell wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jan 2007 15:09:09 -0500, "Roger Zoul" wrote: This would yeild an electric motorcycle, not a bicycle. Bring on the mopeds! Well, two on-line dictionaries only differentiate based on the size of the motor - both say a bicycle can have a small motor, so its going to depend on the size (both also say a motorcycle has a 'powerful' motor, so it looks almost as if one stole from the other...). The dictionaries might, but state laws are where this will get interesting (at least, for us in the USA). For example, IL considers anything with a motor to be a moped: (625 ILCS 5/1106) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 1106) Sec. 1106. Bicycle. Every device propelled by human power upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels except scooters and similar devices. (Source: P.A. 85951.) (625 ILCS 5/1148.2) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 1148.2) Sec. 1148.2. Motorized Pedalcycle. A motorized pedalcycle is a motordriven cycle whose speed attainable in one mile is 30 mph or less, which is equipped with a motor that produces 2 brake horsepower or less. If an internal combustion engine is used, the displacement shall not exceed 50 cubic centimeter displacement and the power drive system shall not require the operator to shift gears. (Source: P.A. 83820.) IOW, there is no such thing as an "electric bicycle" in Illinois. This has interesting implications for manufacturers of such. -- __o Kristian Zoerhoff _'\(,_ (_)/ (_) |
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