#11
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On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 8:32:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE? Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike. As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit. Well, unless you're a real optimist, you'll want to bring at least one spare and some CO2 or a pump -- and your usual tools, all of which you can get well under 2 lbs, unless you're Joerg, and then you try to get it under 20 lbs. And CF? I thought you and CF were like gasoline and matches. -- Jay Beattie. |
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#13
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On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 12:53:01 -0700,
Joerg wrote: On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote: As soon as I recover from the expense of building [my CF bike] I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit. Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists' bikes. For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers, heart-lung machine, flares and rope. Heart-lung machine. HAHaha! Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after 5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have ... a tube. What, you didn't have a tube to share with them? -- Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA |
#14
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On 2018-09-24 14:05, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 12:53:01 -0700, [...] Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after 5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have ... a tube. What, you didn't have a tube to share with them? I had already given that to another rider who couldn't be convinced to use thorn-resistant thick tubes. Well, now he knows. Besides, both their fancy tubeless MTBs were flat so one tube alone would not have gotten them home. OTOH the El Dorado Trail is also a nice hiking trail. One day I want to walk it without my MTB. That will be an all day affair though. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#15
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On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:53:03 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote: On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE? Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike. As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit. Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists' bikes. For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers, heart-lung machine, flares and rope. Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10" penetration suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling out? Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after 5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have ... a tube. And once again, we're back onto the El Dorado trail, or as we know it up here, the Trail of Terror! (or trail of dopes with all the hapless people you meet). Note from my post that I was talking about ROAD RIDING, and unless you're riding through a brier patch, most road cyclists -- even in goathead country -- aren't going to get attacked by massive amounts of goatheads. There is also less target area with a 25mm tire. Tom isn't going to put tire liners, thick tubes and mega-belted monstrosities on his new Colnago racing bike. Hardcase tires and their equivalents ride like bricks. -- Jay Beattie. |
#16
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On 2018-09-24 15:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:53:03 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote: On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE? Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike. As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit. Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists' bikes. For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers, heart-lung machine, flares and rope. Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10" penetration suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling out? Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after 5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have ... a tube. And once again, we're back onto the El Dorado trail, or as we know it up here, the Trail of Terror! (or trail of dopes with all the hapless people you meet). Note from my post that I was talking about ROAD RIDING, ... This sub-thread was about tubeless. What I am saying is that tubeless is no match for goat heads. Regardless of whether they are lying in wait on singletrack or on paved surfaces (which they do). ... and unless you're riding through a brier patch, most road cyclists -- even in goathead country -- aren't going to get attacked by massive amounts of goatheads. There is also less target area with a 25mm tire. Tom isn't going to put tire liners, thick tubes and mega-belted monstrosities on his new Colnago racing bike. Hardcase tires and their equivalents ride like bricks. It's similar on road bikes here. One rider had an Armadillo road tire poked by not one but two goat's head thorns. Both went through. He had a tube but tubeless is not going to protect you against those because there is even less surface thickness.. Those nasty thorns seem to be everywhere, on roads, on bike paths, on trails. A bike shop owner told me that the problem became serious in California less than 10 years ago when they were somehow imported from the south-west. They tend to go in far off-center where the tire is weaker, like this: https://i0.wp.com/slocyclist.com/wp-...size=678%2C381 Your son lived in Utah, he should know that plenty of them are found on paved surfaces. http://www.cyclingutah.com/advocacy/...-noxious-weed/ -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#17
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On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 12:11:01 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 9/24/2018 11:32 AM, wrote: On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE? Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike. As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit. You have a 2 pound flat repair kit? Two spare inner tubes weigh about 200 grams, or is you go for the really light tubes (Continental's Supersonic tube) about 110 for the two. -- Cheers John B. |
#18
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On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 4:24:08 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 15:01, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:53:03 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote: On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE? Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike. As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit. Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists' bikes. For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers, heart-lung machine, flares and rope. Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10" penetration suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling out? Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after 5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have ... a tube. And once again, we're back onto the El Dorado trail, or as we know it up here, the Trail of Terror! (or trail of dopes with all the hapless people you meet). Note from my post that I was talking about ROAD RIDING, ... This sub-thread was about tubeless. What I am saying is that tubeless is no match for goat heads. Regardless of whether they are lying in wait on singletrack or on paved surfaces (which they do). ... and unless you're riding through a brier patch, most road cyclists -- even in goathead country -- aren't going to get attacked by massive amounts of goatheads. There is also less target area with a 25mm tire. Tom isn't going to put tire liners, thick tubes and mega-belted monstrosities on his new Colnago racing bike. Hardcase tires and their equivalents ride like bricks. It's similar on road bikes here. One rider had an Armadillo road tire poked by not one but two goat's head thorns. Both went through. He had a tube but tubeless is not going to protect you against those because there is even less surface thickness.. Those nasty thorns seem to be everywhere, on roads, on bike paths, on trails. A bike shop owner told me that the problem became serious in California less than 10 years ago when they were somehow imported from the south-west. They tend to go in far off-center where the tire is weaker, like this: https://i0.wp.com/slocyclist.com/wp-...size=678%2C381 Your son lived in Utah, he should know that plenty of them are found on paved surfaces. http://www.cyclingutah.com/advocacy/...-noxious-weed/ Yes, I've ridden in Utah many times; I was born and raised in California, and there is a bounty for goatheads/puncturevine in eastern Oregon. http://www.union-bulletin.com/news/l...374187d08.html They were controlled in parts of California for a period of time, but I can remember them back to my childhood. I've never ridden with super fat tubes, tire liners or anything -- even riding across the US and lots of miles in eastern Oregon and Utah. I'll leave it to Tom to speak to his experience in the Bay Area, but unless he is riding through dirt lots or along train tracks, he is probably not seeing more than a nuisance amount of goatheads -- not the crippling multiple flat, stranded on the El Dorado trail goathead attack. And from what he's reported so far, tubeless is working for him. -- Jay Beattie. |
#19
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On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 18:16:49 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote: On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 4:24:08 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-09-24 15:01, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:53:03 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote: On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote: On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE? Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike. As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit. Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists' bikes. For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers, heart-lung machine, flares and rope. Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10" penetration suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling out? Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after 5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have ... a tube. And once again, we're back onto the El Dorado trail, or as we know it up here, the Trail of Terror! (or trail of dopes with all the hapless people you meet). Note from my post that I was talking about ROAD RIDING, ... This sub-thread was about tubeless. What I am saying is that tubeless is no match for goat heads. Regardless of whether they are lying in wait on singletrack or on paved surfaces (which they do). ... and unless you're riding through a brier patch, most road cyclists -- even in goathead country -- aren't going to get attacked by massive amounts of goatheads. There is also less target area with a 25mm tire. Tom isn't going to put tire liners, thick tubes and mega-belted monstrosities on his new Colnago racing bike. Hardcase tires and their equivalents ride like bricks. It's similar on road bikes here. One rider had an Armadillo road tire poked by not one but two goat's head thorns. Both went through. He had a tube but tubeless is not going to protect you against those because there is even less surface thickness.. Those nasty thorns seem to be everywhere, on roads, on bike paths, on trails. A bike shop owner told me that the problem became serious in California less than 10 years ago when they were somehow imported from the south-west. They tend to go in far off-center where the tire is weaker, like this: https://i0.wp.com/slocyclist.com/wp-...size=678%2C381 Your son lived in Utah, he should know that plenty of them are found on paved surfaces. http://www.cyclingutah.com/advocacy/...-noxious-weed/ Yes, I've ridden in Utah many times; I was born and raised in California, and there is a bounty for goatheads/puncturevine in eastern Oregon. http://www.union-bulletin.com/news/l...374187d08.html They were controlled in parts of California for a period of time, but I can remember them back to my childhood. I've never ridden with super fat tubes, tire liners or anything -- even riding across the US and lots of miles in reastern Oregon and Utah. I'll leave it to Tom to speak to his experience in the Bay Area, but unless he is riding through dirt lots or along train tracks, he is probably not seeing more than a nuisance amount of goatheads -- not the crippling multiple flat, stranded on the El Dorado trail goathead attack. And from what he's reported so far, tubeless is working for him. -- Jay Beattie. Perhaps Tom doesn't carry a Growler of beer with him on his rides. One can only speculate on whether drinking beer while riding results in more attacks by mountain lion, wild eyed dairy cattle and goat head thorns then are experienced by those who ride sober. https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-bike-deaths/ Some 21 percent of autopsies for New York City bicyclists who died within three hours of their accidents detected alcohol in the body, -- Cheers John B. |
#20
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On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 9:11:03 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2018 11:32 AM, wrote: On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE? Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot.. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike. As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit.. You have a 2 pound flat repair kit? You don't? One bag, a couple of innertubes, a couple of CO2 cartridges and a filler or a pump and a multitool? I have a scale and I have weighed many of these things and they all were close to two lbs for a road bike and not some heavy POS touring bike wi8th 32 mm heavy wall innertubes like you ride.. The question is - why have you never weighed any of this? Or do you simply contradict for the reasons unknown to thinking humans? |
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