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Horst link bending forces



 
 
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  #71  
Old February 8th 18, 08:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Horst link bending forces

On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 2:48:30 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:33:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

lou.holtman wrote:

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the
difference when clean. I think I can tell the
difference between 105 and DA especially
shifting in front and braking. But is it
worth the price difference? I don't know but
Shimano have to realize that they make their
profit because the regular cyclist buys DA
components and I think it's a shame that they
don't offer the proper gearing for the
regular cyclist in DA quality.


"Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is
that some casette/chainrings configuration that
the pros have different?


From what I read Dura Ace offers, in 10 speed, 11-21/11-23/11-28/12-23
and 12-27, cassettes and chain wheel combinations in a number of
combinations, the lowest of which seems to be 50/34 teeth. They also
offer 7 different length of crank arm ranging from 165 to 180mm.

That should keep most road cyclists happy.
--
Cheers,

John B.


For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the 11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for a lot of people that can afford a DA group. In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30 gear combination so it is getting better. But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra?
You have the money to spend and willing to do so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra. What kind of marketing is that?

Lou
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  #72  
Old February 8th 18, 08:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default Horst link bending forces

lou.holtman wrote:

For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the
11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for
a lot of people that can afford a DA group.
In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30
gear combination so it is getting better.
But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra?
You have the money to spend and willing to do
so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra.
What kind of marketing is that?


Can you throw in a Ultegra casette and/or
crankset to get the desired span? Because just
now you said even with a 105 you didn't really
feel the difference (when clean)?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #73  
Old February 8th 18, 09:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 824
Default Horst link bending forces

On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 8:24:54 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
lou.holtman wrote:

For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the
11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for
a lot of people that can afford a DA group.
In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30
gear combination so it is getting better.
But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra?
You have the money to spend and willing to do
so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra.
What kind of marketing is that?


Can you throw in a Ultegra casette and/or
crankset to get the desired span? Because just
now you said even with a 105 you didn't really
feel the difference (when clean)?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573


The problem is the capacity of the DA RD. Off course you can make it work mixing groupset parts but that is not my point. If you only want it to work buy 105 but then you get also a heavy groupset with an ugly finish.


Lou
  #74  
Old February 8th 18, 10:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,035
Default Horst link bending forces

lou.holtman wrote:

The problem is the capacity of the DA RD.
Off course you can make it work mixing
groupset parts but that is not my point.
If you only want it to work buy 105 but then
you get also a heavy groupset with an
ugly finish.


Don't take this the wrong way but this sounds
like some hang-up. I mean, I have hang-ups
myself so I'm not judgemental. But especially
since you say you don't really feel any
difference except for maybe when not clean and
in a 20km 11% hill...? It sounds like bringing
so much stuff to K2 suddenly the caravan can't
continue because to feed all the porters, you
need even more porters?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #75  
Old February 8th 18, 10:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 824
Default Horst link bending forces

On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 10:19:31 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
lou.holtman wrote:

The problem is the capacity of the DA RD.
Off course you can make it work mixing
groupset parts but that is not my point.
If you only want it to work buy 105 but then
you get also a heavy groupset with an
ugly finish.


Don't take this the wrong way but this sounds
like some hang-up. I mean, I have hang-ups
myself so I'm not judgemental. But especially
since you say you don't really feel any
difference except for maybe when not clean and
in a 20km 11% hill...? It sounds like bringing
so much stuff to K2 suddenly the caravan can't
continue because to feed all the porters, you
need even more porters?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573


I don't know what you trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people that like the incredible shifting performance, the low weight, the looks of DA gruppo and are willing to pay the price but they also need low enough gearing which is not available in DA. From Shimano marketing point of view I find this strange because the margine of DA is much larger that of 105 or Ultegra.

Lou
  #76  
Old February 8th 18, 12:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Horst link bending forces

On Wed, 7 Feb 2018 23:18:52 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 2:48:30 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:33:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

lou.holtman wrote:

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the
difference when clean. I think I can tell the
difference between 105 and DA especially
shifting in front and braking. But is it
worth the price difference? I don't know but
Shimano have to realize that they make their
profit because the regular cyclist buys DA
components and I think it's a shame that they
don't offer the proper gearing for the
regular cyclist in DA quality.

"Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is
that some casette/chainrings configuration that
the pros have different?


From what I read Dura Ace offers, in 10 speed, 11-21/11-23/11-28/12-23
and 12-27, cassettes and chain wheel combinations in a number of
combinations, the lowest of which seems to be 50/34 teeth. They also
offer 7 different length of crank arm ranging from 165 to 180mm.

That should keep most road cyclists happy.
--
Cheers,

John B.


For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the 11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for a lot of people that can afford a DA group. In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30 gear combination so it is getting better. But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra?
You have the money to spend and willing to do so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra. What kind of marketing is that?

Lou


I don't know. I'm probably wrong but somehow I've always had the
impression that the Dura Ace was aimed at the high end road...
probably racing.. group. Certainly it wasn't designed for hauling
loads up mountains.

Shimano describes it as "The DURA-ACE series is SHIMANO's lightest,
most ergonomic, and most precise groupset ever; delivering the finest
mechanical performance. The extra eleventh gear and numerous other
enhancements combine to deliver a truly dominating performance. When
you ride DURA-ACE, you're riding to win."
--
Cheers,

John B.

  #77  
Old February 8th 18, 01:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Horst link bending forces

On 2/8/2018 1:32 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 10:19:31 AM UTC+1, Emanuel Berg wrote:
lou.holtman wrote:

The problem is the capacity of the DA RD.
Off course you can make it work mixing
groupset parts but that is not my point.
If you only want it to work buy 105 but then
you get also a heavy groupset with an
ugly finish.


Don't take this the wrong way but this sounds
like some hang-up. I mean, I have hang-ups
myself so I'm not judgemental. But especially
since you say you don't really feel any
difference except for maybe when not clean and
in a 20km 11% hill...? It sounds like bringing
so much stuff to K2 suddenly the caravan can't
continue because to feed all the porters, you
need even more porters?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

I don't know what you trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of people that like the incredible shifting performance, the low weight, the looks of DA gruppo and are willing to pay the price but they also need low enough gearing which is not available in DA. From Shimano marketing point of view I find this strange because the margine of DA is much larger that of 105 or Ultegra.


Maybe Shimano feels that the people that can afford DA would be offended
by the implication that they need lower gearing in order to climb mountains.

  #78  
Old February 8th 18, 02:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 1,035
Default Horst link bending forces

John B. wrote:

Certainly it wasn't designed for hauling
loads up mountains.


So THAT is why it didn't work

Lou, as I cyclist and realist, you admit you
don't need it.

As a consumer, you want it, only not exactly
like the product is at this stage.

As a person, you are successful enough to
afford it even tho, again, you yourself admit
you don't need it.

As an analyzer of bicycle equipment
manufacture business, you think Shimano stupid
not to sell it to you from a commercial point
of view.

And as a denier, you have come up with the
"20km 11%" formula to rationalize it?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #79  
Old February 8th 18, 03:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Horst link bending forces

On 2/8/2018 1:18 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 2:48:30 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:33:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

lou.holtman wrote:

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the
difference when clean. I think I can tell the
difference between 105 and DA especially
shifting in front and braking. But is it
worth the price difference? I don't know but
Shimano have to realize that they make their
profit because the regular cyclist buys DA
components and I think it's a shame that they
don't offer the proper gearing for the
regular cyclist in DA quality.

"Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is
that some casette/chainrings configuration that
the pros have different?


From what I read Dura Ace offers, in 10 speed, 11-21/11-23/11-28/12-23
and 12-27, cassettes and chain wheel combinations in a number of
combinations, the lowest of which seems to be 50/34 teeth. They also
offer 7 different length of crank arm ranging from 165 to 180mm.

That should keep most road cyclists happy.
--
Cheers,

John B.


For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the 11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for a lot of people that can afford a DA group. In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30 gear combination so it is getting better. But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra?
You have the money to spend and willing to do so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra. What kind of marketing is that?

Lou


whatever.
Campagnolo does low gears better now:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfd18r3.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #80  
Old February 8th 18, 03:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Horst link bending forces

On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 3:11:48 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/8/2018 1:18 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, February 8, 2018 at 2:48:30 AM UTC+1, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 07 Feb 2018 18:33:55 +0100, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

lou.holtman wrote:

From 105 and up it is hard to tell the
difference when clean. I think I can tell the
difference between 105 and DA especially
shifting in front and braking. But is it
worth the price difference? I don't know but
Shimano have to realize that they make their
profit because the regular cyclist buys DA
components and I think it's a shame that they
don't offer the proper gearing for the
regular cyclist in DA quality.

"Proper gearing for the regular cyclist", is
that some casette/chainrings configuration that
the pros have different?

From what I read Dura Ace offers, in 10 speed, 11-21/11-23/11-28/12-23
and 12-27, cassettes and chain wheel combinations in a number of
combinations, the lowest of which seems to be 50/34 teeth. They also
offer 7 different length of crank arm ranging from 165 to 180mm.

That should keep most road cyclists happy.
--
Cheers,

John B.


For 20 km climbs with stretches of more the 11% a 34/27 combination is not low enough for a lot of people that can afford a DA group. In the latest DA version they offer a 34/30 gear combination so it is getting better. But why not offer a 34/32 like Ultegra?
You have the money to spend and willing to do so and you are 'forced' to buy Ultegra. What kind of marketing is that?

Lou


whatever.
Campagnolo does low gears better now:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfd18r3.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


Super Record? I don't think so. Potenza I presume.

Lou
 




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