Help Me Choose A Headlight

On May 2, 9:56 am, " wrote:

That said, I can definately see the attraction of a hub powered
light. Have you checked the resistance of the B&M when turned on by
hand to get an idea how much drag there is? It's good to hear some
people don't notice it when riding.
Also, what's the weight penalty for a setup like this?

All the facts are here are at the B&M site:

http://www.bumm.de/index-e.html

Also Sheldon Brown and Peter White have information. Google for their
sites.

This is a good exercise for a spreadsheet. The difference in price for
the bottle vs. hub system is large, the system use is minimal (what %
of your riding is in the dark?) and the light generation is
comparable. For me the bottle made sense. I got the regular bottle not
the S6 or S12 (and I still cannot feel the drag.) The side benefit is
it makes the bike look a bit klutzier and therefore less attractive at
the bike rack g. The Dymotec with the LED is a 100,000 hour light
and it has circuitry to keep lite when you stop.

Your light options are the same whether you go bottle or hub...

Clive George wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message
...

While it's true that a 2.4-3 watt dynamo powered lamp isn't going to
provide sufficient illumination in most situations

Oh, you were doing so well until you said that...

If you'd only put suitable caveats around your statements, such as SMS
thinks the 2.4-3W lamps are insufficient, but there are an awful lot of
people out there who find them perfectly adequate. I'm just about to go
for a ride using mine on unlit rural roads. I'll probably get to about
40mph...

I have a semi-regular ride back from a pal's which takes me about
10 miles through unlit countryside, which can be pitch dark at
these latitudes for a good chunk of the year. It's downhill most
of the way, and there's no shortage of interesting bends. I do it
with a 2.4W dynamo powered lamp to show me the way, so either I
have amazing powers of ESP or Scharf is, once again and as usual,
wildly overstating his case (my wife needs the amazing powers of
ESP too, as she manages the same ride with a similar SON and
Lumotec Oval).
Granted I do take it slower than the same route in full daylight,
but considering we both own high powered rechargeable sets and
can't be bothered to supplement our dynohubs with them for that
trip there's a fairly good indication it really /does/ provide
sufficient illumination.
And that's not "most situations". It's darker and faster than
"most situations".

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Wed, 02 May 2007 16:45:27 -0400, Peter Clinch
wrote:

Clive George wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message
...

While it's true that a 2.4-3 watt dynamo powered lamp isn't going to
provide sufficient illumination in most situations
Oh, you were doing so well until you said that...
If you'd only put suitable caveats around your statements, such as SMS
thinks the 2.4-3W lamps are insufficient, but there are an awful lot of
people out there who find them perfectly adequate. I'm just about to go
for a ride using mine on unlit rural roads. I'll probably get to about
40mph...

I have a semi-regular ride back from a pal's which takes me about 10
miles through unlit countryside, which can be pitch dark at these
latitudes for a good chunk of the year. It's downhill most of the way,
and there's no shortage of interesting bends. I do it with a 2.4W
dynamo powered lamp to show me the way, so either I have amazing powers
of ESP or Scharf is, once again and as usual, wildly overstating his
case (my wife needs the amazing powers of ESP too, as she manages the
same ride with a similar SON and Lumotec Oval).
Granted I do take it slower than the same route in full daylight, but
considering we both own high powered rechargeable sets and can't be
bothered to supplement our dynohubs with them for that trip there's a
fairly good indication it really /does/ provide sufficient illumination.
And that's not "most situations". It's darker and faster than "most
situations".

Pete.

They can really provide that much light? My Niterider classic dual beam
with 12W halogen isn't nearly enough for me, if I use the 12W setting.
I've gone HID because of that.

--
Bob in CT

On May 2, 4:50 pm, "Bob in CT" wrote:


They [generators] can really provide that much light? My Niterider classic dual beam
with 12W halogen isn't nearly enough for me, if I use the 12W setting.
I've gone HID because of that.

There's no doubt that a generator light doesn't throw out as many
lumens as your Niterider, so in that sense, they don't provide as much
light.

But there's a lot more to it than raw lumen count. As mentioned many
times, there's the issue of optics, and optics make a huge
difference. Blasting light everywhere (or even blasting light out of
a typical MR-11 "spot" lamp) just wastes lots of energy - and
lumens.

The other issue mentioned by some is that too bright of a light can
sometimes make things worse. I think this is again dependent on
optics - but a super-bright spot on the road can conceivably close
down your irises, leaving you with worse vision overall.

I recall people telling about riding with a generator light, and
having rechargeable light fans following along behind. Putting the
right amount of light right where it's needed seems to work best.

In any case, I too am a guy who used a rechargeable setups for several
years, one being a commercial set, the other being a homebuilt. I
finally just left them at home. For me, the transition happened this
way: l'd take the rechargeable along on the daytime ride to work, and
on the nighttime return, I'd only turn it on if I thought my generator
light needed some help.

After riding seven miles in the dark and turning on the rechargeable
for only 100 yards or so, I decided to just leave it off and see how
it went. And it went fine.

I still have both rechargeable sets. They never get used at all,
except as "loaners" for friends.

Oh - sometimes one gets used to look for Great Horned Owls hooting in
the backyard. I do find it better for that application than a
generator light. ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

SMS wrote:

For example, the TrailTech MR11 size HID is rated at 500 lumens and
draws 13 watts, and costs $115. I can buy a set of two MR16 housings, 10
watt lamps (spot and flood), and can over voltage by 10% and be at over
500 lumens, for a lot less money. If I use only one at a time, the power
consumption is actually a bit less than the HID.

Following up on my own post, I notice that TrailTech sells a complete
single lamp 13W/500 lumens HID system, including bar clamp that will fit
7/8" through 1.25" bars, a helmet mount, 13.2V/3.7AH NiMH battery
(49WH), and charger, for $200. This battery should run the light for
more than three hours.

See page 47 of "http://trailtech.net/media/catalog/TT-CAT-07_lowres.pdf"

In article ,
"Bob in CT" wrote:

On Wed, 02 May 2007 16:45:27 -0400, Peter Clinch
wrote:

Clive George wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message
...

While it's true that a 2.4-3 watt dynamo powered lamp isn't going
to provide sufficient illumination in most situations
Oh, you were doing so well until you said that... If you'd only
put suitable caveats around your statements, such as SMS
thinks the 2.4-3W lamps are insufficient, but there are an awful
lot of people out there who find them perfectly adequate. I'm
just about to go for a ride using mine on unlit rural roads. I'll
probably get to about 40mph...

I have a semi-regular ride back from a pal's which takes me about
10 miles through unlit countryside, which can be pitch dark at
these latitudes for a good chunk of the year. It's downhill most
of the way, and there's no shortage of interesting bends. I do it
with a 2.4W dynamo powered lamp to show me the way, so either I
have amazing powers of ESP or Scharf is, once again and as usual,
wildly overstating his case (my wife needs the amazing powers of
ESP too, as she manages the same ride with a similar SON and
Lumotec Oval).

Granted I do take it slower than the same route in full daylight,
but considering we both own high powered rechargeable sets and
can't be bothered to supplement our dynohubs with them for that
trip there's a fairly good indication it really /does/ provide
sufficient illumination. And that's not "most situations". It's
darker and faster than "most situations".

They can really provide that much light? My Niterider classic dual
beam with 12W halogen isn't nearly enough for me, if I use the 12W
setting. I've gone HID because of that.

There've been many discussions about this in this newsgroup over the
years, most of which degenerate into a shouting match. What I can say
from experience is that a good 3W dynamo system (in my case, a Lumotec
Oval Plus lamp and a Schmidt SON hub on one bike and a Lumotec standard
lamp with a Sanyo BB dynamo on the other) works fine. It gets a bit
washed out on urban streets with lots of headlights and street lights,
but is adequate. I have ridden dusk 'til dawn with these lights quite a
few times on dark rural roads including fast descents. They work fine,
I see well, and am perfectly comfortable with them.

I think overbright lights impair dark adaptation of the eye by making
nearby objects and the road immediately in front of the bike too bright.
Since you can't see effectively, you think you need to upgrade to a
brighter lights. Eventually you'll end up mounting a kleig light and
towing a gasoline powered generator. Most high powered lights have
inappropriate optics (they are often adapted from other uses, not
designed from the ground up as a bike light) and most are not designed
to be intelligently mounted on the bike. The light source needs to be
low- fork crown height or lower- to maximize its usefulness. Most
battery powered lights are designed to mount above the handlebar or-
even much worse- on your head.

There may also be differences in night vision that affect your
preference in lights. I seem to see well at night compared to many
people, although I have never had my night vision tested.

SMS wrote:
Bill wrote:

The Tungsten is more prone to breaking from the vibration in a bike
than in a car, and that is more than in a house light. Filaments burn
out in a supernova, LEDs may dim over years, and HIDs may dim just a
bit after a bunch of years.
Three different types of light.

Personally, I'd rather over-voltage a quartz-halogen lamp to achieve the
illumination level of HID, and carry a spare bulb for when it burns out
in that supernova.

That works only if you have a sanitary, well clean, cloth to change the
bulb. The Quartz will shatter from the skin oils if you touch it.

For example, the TrailTech MR11 size HID is rated at 500 lumens and
draws 13 watts, and costs $115. I can buy a set of two MR16 housings, 10
watt lamps (spot and flood), and can over voltage by 10% and be at over
500 lumens, for a lot less money. If I use only one at a time, the power
consumption is actually a bit less than the HID.

All this assumes that I actually need that much illumination. Personally
I think that a lot of people are going way overboard on lighting. While
it's true that a 2.4-3 watt dynamo powered lamp isn't going to provide
sufficient illumination in most situations, there are fine
quartz-halogen or xenon rechargaeable systems available for well under
$100 that provide more than adequate illumination.

Since I don't blast through unknown territory at 25 MPH at night my main
use is for cars to see me. My LED Cateye gives me enough light for maybe
15 MPH safely. Faster and I might find a pothole the hard way. This may
sound a bit strange but my night vision is good enough that I can ride
trails by a full moon alone. That's a beneficial side effect of working
indoors with computers most of the time and wearing 10% pass polarized
UV blocker goggles in the day time.
Your needs may vary.
Bill Baka

wrote:
On May 2, 4:50 pm, "Bob in CT" wrote:

They [generators] can really provide that much light? My Niterider classic dual beam
with 12W halogen isn't nearly enough for me, if I use the 12W setting.
I've gone HID because of that.

There's no doubt that a generator light doesn't throw out as many
lumens as your Niterider, so in that sense, they don't provide as much
light.

But there's a lot more to it than raw lumen count. As mentioned many
times, there's the issue of optics, and optics make a huge
difference. Blasting light everywhere (or even blasting light out of
a typical MR-11 "spot" lamp) just wastes lots of energy - and
lumens.

The other issue mentioned by some is that too bright of a light can
sometimes make things worse. I think this is again dependent on
optics - but a super-bright spot on the road can conceivably close
down your irises, leaving you with worse vision overall.

I recall people telling about riding with a generator light, and
having rechargeable light fans following along behind. Putting the
right amount of light right where it's needed seems to work best.

In any case, I too am a guy who used a rechargeable setups for several
years, one being a commercial set, the other being a homebuilt. I
finally just left them at home. For me, the transition happened this
way: l'd take the rechargeable along on the daytime ride to work, and
on the nighttime return, I'd only turn it on if I thought my generator
light needed some help.

After riding seven miles in the dark and turning on the rechargeable
for only 100 yards or so, I decided to just leave it off and see how
it went. And it went fine.

A half moon is plenty of light if your eyes aren't burned out by the day
time sun. The best I've managed is to ride by a 1/8th moon and stars.
Good enough to see the road but not too good for potholes. Good eyes are
your best, first priority.
Bill Baka

I still have both rechargeable sets. They never get used at all,
except as "loaners" for friends.

Oh - sometimes one gets used to look for Great Horned Owls hooting in
the backyard. I do find it better for that application than a
generator light. ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

Bob in CT wrote:

They can really provide that much light?

WHere "that much" means "quite sufficient" for road use if you're not
trying to maximise speed, yes, at least in my case. I'd want high power
rechargeables for off-road where you've got immediate route-finding
issues on the sub-meter scale, definitrely, but given a good quality
lamp (something like the D-Lumotec Oval is not just a cheap bulb wired
un in a box) the dynamo is enough for the road.

You can always go the twin lamp in series option as hub generators like
SONs are constant current devices, and these setups seem quite popular
on very long randoneuring runs, but I just don't feel the need.

One gotcha, do remember a small LED flashlight just in case you get a
puncture that needs fixing!

My Niterider classic dual beam
with 12W halogen isn't nearly enough for me, if I use the 12W setting.
I've gone HID because of that.

I agree with other comments viz optics and over-bright, but in any case
"enough for you" and "enough for me" /could/ be different things. The
important thing is to note it is personal to some degree and shouldn't
be made a general case like some people try to do.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

SMS wrote:
SMS wrote:

For example, the TrailTech MR11 size HID is rated at 500 lumens and
draws 13 watts, and costs $115. I can buy a set of two MR16 housings,
10 watt lamps (spot and flood), and can over voltage by 10% and be at
over 500 lumens, for a lot less money. If I use only one at a time,
the power consumption is actually a bit less than the HID.

Following up on my own post, I notice that TrailTech sells a complete
single lamp 13W/500 lumens HID system, including bar clamp that will fit
7/8" through 1.25" bars, a helmet mount, 13.2V/3.7AH NiMH battery
(49WH), and charger, for $200. This battery should run the light for
more than three hours.

See page 47 of "http://trailtech.net/media/catalog/TT-CAT-07_lowres.pdf"

I've been using a 13 watt trailtech for about a year and a half now and
it hasn't missed a beat.
Very good value for money. I use a 11.1 volt 3.5 amp.hour lithium
battery and get a minimum of three hours use out of it.
I wouldn't hesitate to get another one.

Friday