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Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 13th 08, 05:24 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
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Posts: 613
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
news

I wouldn't know. I plonked Mike and Dolan so long ago that I haven't
kept up. I don't know why people haven't done that.


Because they are too stupid.


Do you even realize that the guy you replied to won't even see your post
unless somebody else replies to it? Talk about stupid! Pot, kettle, black.




Ads
  #22  
Old March 13th 08, 06:11 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Marz
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Posts: 610
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

On Mar 12, 10:19*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Wed, 12 Mar 2008 05:41:36 -0700 (PDT), Marz





wrote:
On Mar 11, 7:22*pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 20:13:21 -0400, Eric Vey
wrote:


Jeff Strickland wrote:


"Eric Vey" wrote in message
...
Jason wrote:
* Mike Vandeman :
"50 million Americans mountain bike"? Yeah, right. This "study" is
nothing but lies designed to promote mountain biking -- nothing new
for mountain bikers. They never write ANYTHING that isn't propaganda..


So you have a lot in common with them then, what's your point?


Jason


I can only guess that the 50 million number comes from the Bicycle
Shaped Objects sold in Wal-Mart and Co. 90% of the BSOs are in the MTB
style. There is no way that a Roadmaster MTB style bike (a BSO) could
survive 10 minutes of real mountain biking because something would
break in that 10 minutes.


Mike insists that it would be your scrotum that would break, therefore
you should stay home.


I wouldn't know. I plonked Mike and Dolan so long ago that I haven't
kept up. I don't know why people haven't done that.


Because they are too stupid.


So you're saying the 'smart' thing to do, is to put you on our ignore
list. Does this mean you admit you have nothing of value for us to
read?


I didn't say that. You did.



I didn't say anything, I asked a question.
  #23  
Old March 14th 08, 02:17 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
[email protected]
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Posts: 495
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

I found this picture of Mike Vanderman protesting a bike race...he is
trying to run down the biker...that crazy Mike!! He's always good for
a laugh.

http://bikehugger.com/images/blog/nugget-thumb.jpg
  #24  
Old March 14th 08, 03:19 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Mike Vandeman
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Posts: 4,798
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 19:40:47 -0300, Jason
wrote:

* Mike Vandeman :
"50 million Americans mountain bike"? Yeah, right. This "study" is
nothing but lies designed to promote mountain biking -- nothing new
for mountain bikers. They never write ANYTHING that isn't propaganda..


So you have a lot in common with them then, what's your point?

Jason


Hmmm. IMBA & Shimano say "50 million Americans mountain bike". I say
far fewer. Which of us is right? DUH!
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
  #25  
Old March 14th 08, 06:01 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike
Beej Jorgensen
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Posts: 87
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

Mike Vandeman wrote:
Hmmm. IMBA & Shimano say "50 million Americans mountain bike". I say
far fewer. Which of us is right?


Which one, indeed! Shimano, with their manufacturing and sales
statistics, and their teams of market analysts, and their years of
public revenue history, or Mike, with... with what he's got.

-Beej, apologies to Red Dwarf

Mike, why don't you just tell them how many Americans mountain bike?

  #26  
Old April 11th 08, 01:26 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

Jeff Strickland wrote:

Shimano probably knows how many gearsets it sells, and where they are
consumed. I suspect the 50M number is a bit high too, but I don't make
and sell gearsets, so I don't really know. But, I am not calling them
liars, you are. And when you call somebody a liar, that's a bit like the
pot calling the kettle black, ergo I'm right. Again.


Shimano never stated that 50 million Americans mountain bike. What they
said was "50 million Americans ride a mountain bike." What they didn't
say was that many of those mountain bikes are not ridden off-road, and
that in fact many could not be ridden off road for very long before
falling apart, being of the Target/Wal-Mart variety.

"http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/news_and_information/news0/shimano_and_imba_release.html"

It's a good cause that Shimano's become involved in since scientific
research has shown mountain biking to be a low impact environmentally
sustainable activity with no more impact on natural resources than
hiking, and far less than many other recreational activities.
  #27  
Old April 11th 08, 04:59 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")


"SMS" wrote in message
...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

Shimano probably knows how many gearsets it sells, and where they are
consumed. I suspect the 50M number is a bit high too, but I don't make
and sell gearsets, so I don't really know. But, I am not calling them
liars, you are. And when you call somebody a liar, that's a bit like the
pot calling the kettle black, ergo I'm right. Again.


Shimano never stated that 50 million Americans mountain bike. What they
said was "50 million Americans ride a mountain bike." What they didn't say
was that many of those mountain bikes are not ridden off-road, and that in
fact many could not be ridden off road for very long before falling apart,
being of the Target/Wal-Mart variety.

"http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/news_and_information/news0/shimano_and_imba_release.html"

It's a good cause that Shimano's become involved in since scientific
research has shown mountain biking to be a low impact environmentally
sustainable activity with no more impact on natural resources than hiking,
and far less than many other recreational activities.



Thanks, but I get all of that. I was responding to Vandeman's assertion that
there is no way for there to be 50M mountain bikes. He asserts that Shimano
is not in a position to know this sort of stuff.

I agree with the assessment that mountain biking is a low impact and
environmentally sustainable activity. I also agree that there are places
where the impact is quite high, but as a practical matter these areas (the
affected location of the high impact) is typically in the range of about 100
sq ft or less per location. Hardly a significant problem, and one that will
typically mend itself in short order as weather conditions change.

I would suggest that the typical bicycle route is going to be about 18
inches wide unless the route is also a motor vehicle route (in which case
the damage caused is more likely to be a result fo the motor vehicles that
the bicycles) and that areas where there is high impact are also areas where
there is water left standing after a rain. As the area dries out, the impact
returns to a low state, and while the area remains wet, any activity is
likely to be high impact for the duration of the standing water. So, for
there to be 100 square feet of high impact on an 18-inch route, the running
length of the impact has to be 66 feet, and that's a very long way. I'd
suggest that it is very rare for anybody to try and muddle through 66 feet
of mud and crud to get to where the trail is going. Indeed, the trail would
not go someplace where 66 feet of obsticles would be present and where high
impact is likely to be present.

Human nature and the laws of physics demands that the easy route be
followed. The demanding route is difficult to sustain over time, therefore
the easy route is the one that will be established. The easy route will be,
by definition, least problematic for the environment.






  #28  
Old April 11th 08, 07:01 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,477
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

Jeff Strickland wrote:

"SMS" wrote in message
...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

Shimano probably knows how many gearsets it sells, and where they are
consumed. I suspect the 50M number is a bit high too, but I don't
make and sell gearsets, so I don't really know. But, I am not calling
them liars, you are. And when you call somebody a liar, that's a bit
like the pot calling the kettle black, ergo I'm right. Again.


Shimano never stated that 50 million Americans mountain bike. What
they said was "50 million Americans ride a mountain bike." What they
didn't say was that many of those mountain bikes are not ridden
off-road, and that in fact many could not be ridden off road for very
long before falling apart, being of the Target/Wal-Mart variety.

"http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/news_and_information/news0/shimano_and_imba_release.html"


It's a good cause that Shimano's become involved in since scientific
research has shown mountain biking to be a low impact environmentally
sustainable activity with no more impact on natural resources than
hiking, and far less than many other recreational activities.



Thanks, but I get all of that. I was responding to Vandeman's assertion
that there is no way for there to be 50M mountain bikes. He asserts that
Shimano is not in a position to know this sort of stuff.


Right, I have him kill-filed, but I see now that he changed what Shimano
actually said, into "50 million Americans mountain bike," from ""50
million Americans ride a mountain bike."

Perhaps there should be some sort of an agreement, where Vandeman agrees
to stop lying about mountain biking, and mountain bikers agree to stop
telling the truth about Vandeman.
  #29  
Old April 12th 08, 02:18 AM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
Jeff Strickland
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 613
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")


"SMS" wrote in message
...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

"SMS" wrote in message
...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

Shimano probably knows how many gearsets it sells, and where they are
consumed. I suspect the 50M number is a bit high too, but I don't make
and sell gearsets, so I don't really know. But, I am not calling them
liars, you are. And when you call somebody a liar, that's a bit like
the pot calling the kettle black, ergo I'm right. Again.

Shimano never stated that 50 million Americans mountain bike. What they
said was "50 million Americans ride a mountain bike." What they didn't
say was that many of those mountain bikes are not ridden off-road, and
that in fact many could not be ridden off road for very long before
falling apart, being of the Target/Wal-Mart variety.

"http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/news_and_information/news0/shimano_and_imba_release.html"

It's a good cause that Shimano's become involved in since scientific
research has shown mountain biking to be a low impact environmentally
sustainable activity with no more impact on natural resources than
hiking, and far less than many other recreational activities.



Thanks, but I get all of that. I was responding to Vandeman's assertion
that there is no way for there to be 50M mountain bikes. He asserts that
Shimano is not in a position to know this sort of stuff.


Right, I have him kill-filed, but I see now that he changed what Shimano
actually said, into "50 million Americans mountain bike," from ""50
million Americans ride a mountain bike."

Perhaps there should be some sort of an agreement, where Vandeman agrees
to stop lying about mountain biking, and mountain bikers agree to stop
telling the truth about Vandeman.



I would never agree to stop telling the truth, and I'm sure Vandeman is
committed to lying right up until the moment he takes his last breath.

Nice plan though ... ;-)




  #30  
Old April 14th 08, 01:46 PM posted to alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environment,sci.environment
bluezfolk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 180
Default Shimano, IMBA Release MTB Economics "Study" (Read "Lies")

On Apr 11, 8:18 pm, "Jeff Strickland" wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message

...



Jeff Strickland wrote:


"SMS" wrote in message
. ..
Jeff Strickland wrote:


Shimano probably knows how many gearsets it sells, and where they are
consumed. I suspect the 50M number is a bit high too, but I don't make
and sell gearsets, so I don't really know. But, I am not calling them
liars, you are. And when you call somebody a liar, that's a bit like
the pot calling the kettle black, ergo I'm right. Again.


Shimano never stated that 50 million Americans mountain bike. What they
said was "50 million Americans ride a mountain bike." What they didn't
say was that many of those mountain bikes are not ridden off-road, and
that in fact many could not be ridden off road for very long before
falling apart, being of the Target/Wal-Mart variety.


"http://bike.shimano.com/publish/content/cycle/sac/us/en/news_and_info..."


It's a good cause that Shimano's become involved in since scientific
research has shown mountain biking to be a low impact environmentally
sustainable activity with no more impact on natural resources than
hiking, and far less than many other recreational activities.


Thanks, but I get all of that. I was responding to Vandeman's assertion
that there is no way for there to be 50M mountain bikes. He asserts that
Shimano is not in a position to know this sort of stuff.


Right, I have him kill-filed, but I see now that he changed what Shimano
actually said, into "50 million Americans mountain bike," from ""50
million Americans ride a mountain bike."


Perhaps there should be some sort of an agreement, where Vandeman agrees
to stop lying about mountain biking, and mountain bikers agree to stop
telling the truth about Vandeman.


I would never agree to stop telling the truth, and I'm sure Vandeman is
committed to lying right up until the moment he takes his last breath.

Nice plan though ... ;-)


Haven't seen any of his anti-mtb spam in at least 2 days, maybe that
last breath was already drawn
 




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