A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » Regional Cycling » UK
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 10th 10, 11:50 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
A.Dazzle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010

"thirty-six" wrote in message
...
On 9 Feb, 21:30, David Green wrote:
The details of the next Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop I will


This is a practical course where you learn how to assemble and true
strong and durable bicycle wheels. You will learn to build ’standard’
(36 spoke cross-3) wheels using proven wheel building techniques based
on sound principles. Places are restricted to ensure a high
teacher-student ratio.


£75 for a cup of tea of which the mug needs to bring his own student,
a sham. Brandt's book is not accepted, it's a sham. He makes grave
errors which encourage the reader to build an inadequate and dangerous
wheel with a poor expected lifespan (wheel or rider). Basing a
practical course on this peicew of fiction is downright dangerous. I
advise anybody foolhardy enough to accept tutoring by David Green, to
etch his name on their wheel so that he may be persued for damages in
the event of your death due to wheel collapse.
===
Any links, references, etc for this bit:
'Brandt's book is not accepted, it's a sham. He makes grave
errors which encourage the reader to build an inadequate and dangerous
wheel with a poor expected lifespan (wheel or rider). '

This link says his book is the definitve text.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/

This one says it's a classic:
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/bwheel-rev.html

Is it not about the wheel?;-)

--
A wheel-builder.


Ads
  #2  
Old February 10th 10, 02:37 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
thirty-six
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,049
Default Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010

On 10 Feb, 10:50, "A.Dazzle" wrote:
"thirty-six" wrote in message

...
On 9 Feb, 21:30, David Green wrote:

The details of the next Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop I will
This is a practical course where you learn how to assemble and true
strong and durable bicycle wheels. You will learn to build ’standard’
(36 spoke cross-3) wheels using proven wheel building techniques based
on sound principles. Places are restricted to ensure a high
teacher-student ratio.


£75 for a cup of tea of which the mug needs to bring his own student,
a sham. *Brandt's book is not accepted, it's a sham. *He makes grave
errors which encourage the reader to build an inadequate and dangerous
wheel with a poor expected lifespan (wheel or rider). *Basing a
practical course on this peicew of fiction is downright dangerous. *I
advise anybody foolhardy enough to accept tutoring by David Green, to
etch his name on their wheel so that he may be persued for damages in
the event of your death due to wheel collapse.
===
Any links, references, etc for this bit:
'Brandt's book is not accepted, it's a sham. *He makes grave
errors which encourage the reader to build an inadequate and dangerous
wheel with a poor expected lifespan (wheel or rider). '

This link says his book is the definitve text.http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/

This one says it's a classic:http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/bwheel-rev.html

Is it not about the wheel?;-)


No, it's about JB's ego.


  #3  
Old February 10th 10, 04:48 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Ian Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,622
Default Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:50:03 -0000, A.Dazzle wrote:
"thirty-six" wrote in message
...
On 9 Feb, 21:30, David Green wrote:

This is a practical course where you learn how to assemble and
true strong and durable bicycle wheels. You will learn to build
’standard’ (36 spoke cross-3) wheels using proven wheel building
techniques based on sound principles. Places are restricted to
ensure a high teacher-student ratio.


£75 for a cup of tea of which the mug needs to bring his own
student, a sham. Brandt's book is not accepted, it's a sham. He
makes grave errors which encourage the reader to build an
inadequate and dangerous wheel with a poor expected lifespan
(wheel or rider). Basing a practical course on this peicew of
fiction is downright dangerous. I advise anybody foolhardy enough
to accept tutoring by David Green, to etch his name on their wheel
so that he may be persued for damages in the event of your death
due to wheel collapse.


Any links, references, etc for this bit:
'Brandt's book is not accepted, it's a sham. He makes grave
errors which encourage the reader to build an inadequate and dangerous
wheel with a poor expected lifespan (wheel or rider). '


No, there aren't. The book is the definitive classic text on the
subject, and countless wheels have been built by the methods
described. By 'not accepted', 36 means 'neat accepted by 36'.

36 is a tied-and-soldered nut. I think the most likely background is
that 36 built a wheel and it was a decidedly shoddy job. Rather than
concluding that he cocked it up, he decided that the instructions must
be at fault. The fact that countless other people have built wheels
following the methods in that book simply proves how wrong they are
(or something). 36 and 36 alone knows how to build proper wheels -
everyone else is simply an accident waiting to happen.

I follow the methods set out by Jobst Brandt. The first wheel I
built, I needed to give it a minor true after a couple of months use.
The other wheels I've built have never seen a spoke-key since the day
they were built, and all are still true. Some have had decades of use
at thousands of miles a year (those with hub braking - generally rims
wear out sooner than that). Not one wheel built by me has ever
collapsed.


As to the course - I learn best from books and self-propelled
trial-and-error. Some people learn best from example and being
taught. I think I've only heard one comment about these workshops and
that was glowingly positive

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
  #4  
Old February 10th 10, 06:14 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
thirty-six
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,049
Default Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010

On 10 Feb, 15:48, Ian Smith wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:50:03 -0000, A.Dazzle wrote:
*"thirty-six" wrote in message
...
*On 9 Feb, 21:30, David Green wrote:


This is a practical course where you learn how to assemble and
true strong and durable bicycle wheels. You will learn to build
standard (36 spoke cross-3) wheels using proven wheel building
techniques based on sound principles. Places are restricted to
ensure a high teacher-student ratio.


75 for a cup of tea of which the mug needs to bring his own
student, a sham. *Brandt's book is not accepted, it's a sham. *He
makes grave errors which encourage the reader to build an
inadequate and dangerous wheel with a poor expected lifespan
(wheel or rider). *Basing a practical course on this peicew of
fiction is downright dangerous. *I advise anybody foolhardy enough
to accept tutoring by David Green, to etch his name on their wheel
so that he may be persued for damages in the event of your death
due to wheel collapse.


*Any links, references, etc for this bit:
*'Brandt's book is not accepted, it's a sham. *He makes grave
*errors which encourage the reader to build an inadequate and dangerous
*wheel with a poor expected lifespan (wheel or rider). '


No, there aren't. *The book is the definitive classic text on the
subject, and countless wheels have been built by the methods
described. *By 'not accepted', 36 means 'neat accepted by 36'. *

36 is a tied-and-soldered nut. *I think the most likely


Your thoughts are irrelevant, you belong to the church of Brandt. An
FEA nut whose model does not recreate the Palmer style wheel in common
use today. Real world analysis does not hypothesize on a model which
is unfit for use. Radial spoked wheels went out with the ark. Dont
encourage their use, for they are inferior.

background is
that 36 built a wheel and it was a decidedly shoddy job. *Rather than
concluding that he cocked it up, he decided that the instructions must
be at fault. *The fact that countless other people have built wheels
following the methods in that book simply proves how wrong they are
(or something). *36 and 36 alone knows how to build proper wheels -
everyone else is simply an accident waiting to happen.

I follow the methods set out by Jobst Brandt. *The first wheel I
built, I needed to give it a minor true after a couple of months use. *
The other wheels I've built have never seen a spoke-key since the day
they were built, and all are still true. *Some have had decades of use
at thousands of miles a year (those with hub braking - generally rims
wear out sooner than that). *Not one wheel built by me has ever
collapsed.

As to the course - I learn best from books and self-propelled
trial-and-error. *Some people learn best from example and being
taught. *I think I've only heard one comment about these workshops and
that was glowingly positive

regards, * Ian SMith
--
* |\ /| * * *no .sig
* |o o|
* |/ \|


  #5  
Old February 10th 10, 07:49 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Ian Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,622
Default Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:14:24 -0800 (PST), 36 wrote:
Radial spoked wheels went out with the ark. Dont
encourage their use, for they are inferior.


See - he's a fruitcase.

So far as I recall, I have never advocated or encouraged use of radial
wheels, but none-the-less 36 sees fit to criticise me for doing so.

He inhabits an alternate reality.

--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
  #6  
Old February 10th 10, 08:07 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
thirty-six
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,049
Default Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010

On 10 Feb, 18:49, Ian Smith wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:14:24 -0800 (PST), 36 wrote:
*Radial spoked wheels went out with the ark. *Dont
*encourage their use, for they are inferior.


See - he's a fruitcase. *

So far as I recall, I have never advocated or encouraged use of radial
wheels, but none-the-less 36 sees fit to criticise me for doing so.

He inhabits an alternate reality.


So why do a FEA on a radially spoked wheel, when a tangentially spoked
wheel with interlacing is the usual bicycle wheel. The contact or
binfding of the spokes nearest the rim is significant to the the wheel
structure as it provides additional support to the hub. This is the
real world, this is why interlaced and tied and soldered wheels ride
better and are tougher.
  #7  
Old February 10th 10, 08:09 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
thirty-six
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,049
Default Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010

On 10 Feb, 19:07, thirty-six wrote:
On 10 Feb, 18:49, Ian Smith wrote:

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:14:24 -0800 (PST), 36 wrote:
*Radial spoked wheels went out with the ark. *Dont
*encourage their use, for they are inferior.


See - he's a fruitcase. *


So far as I recall, I have never advocated or encouraged use of radial
wheels, but none-the-less 36 sees fit to criticise me for doing so.


He inhabits an alternate reality.



So why do a FEA on a radially spoked wheel, when a tangentially
spoked
wheel with interlacing is the usual bicycle wheel? The contact or
binding of the spokes nearest the rim is significant to the the wheel
structure as it provides additional support to the hub. *This is the
real world, this is why interlaced and tied and soldered wheels ride
better and are tougher.
  #8  
Old February 10th 10, 09:26 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Ian Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,622
Default Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, thirty-six wrote:
On 10 Feb, 18:49, Ian Smith wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:14:24 -0800 (PST), 36 wrote:
*Radial spoked wheels went out with the ark. *Dont
*encourage their use, for they are inferior.


See - he's a fruitcase. *

So far as I recall, I have never advocated or encouraged use of
radial wheels, but none-the-less 36 sees fit to criticise me for
doing so.


So why do a FEA on a radially spoked wheel,


To demonstrate, as my web page clearly states, that there is no good
reason to use a radially spoked wheel - "the spoking is unlikely to
make a discernible difference to the vertical stiffness of the wheel".

Do you really think admitting the existence of something is
encouraging and endorsing it? Rape, murder and child abuse exist,
but acknowledging that they exist is not endorsing or encouraging
them.


--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
  #9  
Old February 10th 10, 09:44 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
thirty-six
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,049
Default Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010

On 10 Feb, 20:26, Ian Smith wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010, thirty-six wrote:
*On 10 Feb, 18:49, Ian Smith wrote:
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 09:14:24 -0800 (PST), 36 wrote:
*Radial spoked wheels went out with the ark. *Dont
*encourage their use, for they are inferior.


See - he's a fruitcase. *


So far as I recall, I have never advocated or encouraged use of
radial wheels, but none-the-less 36 sees fit to criticise me for
doing so.


*So why do a FEA on a radially spoked wheel,


To demonstrate, as my web page clearly states, that there is no good
reason to use a radially spoked wheel - "the spoking is unlikely to
make a discernible difference to the vertical stiffness of the wheel".


I've just checked, your description of your FEA does not include any
restraint between two crossing spokes. It appears your mistake is
that you modelled a tangentially spoked wheel without interlace. The
spokes freely passed each other because you thought it irrelevant.
Your apparent motive was to 'prove' your case on the terminology used
to describe a wheel's method of support. The omission of such an
important feature of a tangentially spoked wheel clearly shows
ignorance of the wheel by you. GIGO


Do you really think admitting the existence of something is
encouraging and endorsing it? *Rape, murder and child abuse exist,
but acknowledging that they exist is not endorsing or encouraging
them.

--
* |\ /| * * *no .sig
* |o o|
* |/ \|


  #10  
Old February 10th 10, 10:05 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Andrew Price
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 828
Default Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 6 Mar 2010

On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 18:49:25 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith
wrote:

See - he's a fruitcase.


As a quick look at the rec.bicycles.tech archives over the past few
months will confirm.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge - 28.11.09 David Green UK 2 October 20th 09 01:38 PM
Bicycle Wheel Building Workshop - Cambridge 21 July 2007 David Green UK 0 June 15th 07 09:57 PM
Bicycle Wheel Building workshop - Cambridge - September 2005 David Green UK 0 August 24th 05 06:39 AM
Bicycle Wheel Building workshop - places available - Cambridge 26/2/05 David Green UK 0 February 18th 05 08:15 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.