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Square taper BB questions
Got a knackered Shimano 600 BB, this kind:
D-3L 68 = W = 116 It is 116mm long in the spindle and symmetrical. The usual left-hand thread on the drive side. Last time I changed it out was in the 90's and the bike wasn't ridden until recently. Now you can't get these anymore. So I looked around and found UN55. Only 115mm long but that shouldn't matter. However, I also found that there are two kinds of square taper, JIS and ISO. I have Shimano 600EX cranks from 1982. Are those compatible with UN55 in the taper? IOW can UN55 be used to replace old Shimano 600EX BBs? If tapers are mixed that can mess up the chain line: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html There is also the UN26 but that has a plastic cap and some people wrote that the wrench insert for BB cups won't fit in the plasstic pat so I am not sure I could tighten that with my tool set. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
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#2
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Square taper BB questions
On 2017-05-25 15:29, Joerg wrote:
Got a knackered Shimano 600 BB, this kind: D-3L 68 = W = 116 Forgot to mention: 1.37-24T, no BB number or anything stamped in. It is 116mm long in the spindle and symmetrical. The usual left-hand thread on the drive side. Last time I changed it out was in the 90's and the bike wasn't ridden until recently. Now you can't get these anymore. So I looked around and found UN55. Only 115mm long but that shouldn't matter. However, I also found that there are two kinds of square taper, JIS and ISO. I have Shimano 600EX cranks from 1982. Are those compatible with UN55 in the taper? IOW can UN55 be used to replace old Shimano 600EX BBs? If tapers are mixed that can mess up the chain line: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html There is also the UN26 but that has a plastic cap and some people wrote that the wrench insert for BB cups won't fit in the plasstic pat so I am not sure I could tighten that with my tool set. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#3
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Square taper BB questions
On 2017-05-25 15:53, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-25 15:29, Joerg wrote: Got a knackered Shimano 600 BB, this kind: D-3L 68 = W = 116 Forgot to mention: 1.37-24T, no BB number or anything stamped in. It is 116mm long in the spindle and symmetrical. The usual left-hand thread on the drive side. Last time I changed it out was in the 90's and the bike wasn't ridden until recently. Now you can't get these anymore. So I looked around and found UN55. Only 115mm long but that shouldn't matter. However, I also found that there are two kinds of square taper, JIS and ISO. I have Shimano 600EX cranks from 1982. Are those compatible with UN55 in the taper? IOW can UN55 be used to replace old Shimano 600EX BBs? If tapers are mixed that can mess up the chain line: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html There is also the UN26 but that has a plastic cap and some people wrote that the wrench insert for BB cups won't fit in the plasstic pat so I am not sure I could tighten that with my tool set. Gets even more confusing. Sheldon says, quote, "Conversely, if you install a J.I.S. crank on an ISO spindle, it will wind up about 4.5 mm farther in than it would on a J.I.S spindle of the same length": https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html That would mean I'd have to try to find an ISO BB with a spindle about 9mm longer because this goes for eithr side. These guys say, quote, "If you install a JIS Chainset on an ISO Bottom Bracket increase your Bottom Bracket width by around 4mm, for example purchase a 110mm BB instead of a 107mm to give you the correct chainline": http://www.velodromeshop.net/square-taper-jis/iso/ Only 3mm total or 1.5mm on either side. 4.5mm and 1.5mm is a huge difference for a chain line. So what is correct? Or assume the middle, about 3mm each side for 6mm more spindle length and call it a day? I am pretty sure my FS-6207 cranks are JIS. UN55 is often poorly spec'd in the ads. Some say ISO, some say JIS. On the photos that allow close-ups it looks like ISO. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#4
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Square taper BB questions
On 5/25/2017 5:29 PM, Joerg wrote:
Got a knackered Shimano 600 BB, this kind: D-3L 68 = W = 116 It is 116mm long in the spindle and symmetrical. The usual left-hand thread on the drive side. Last time I changed it out was in the 90's and the bike wasn't ridden until recently. Now you can't get these anymore. So I looked around and found UN55. Only 115mm long but that shouldn't matter. However, I also found that there are two kinds of square taper, JIS and ISO. I have Shimano 600EX cranks from 1982. Are those compatible with UN55 in the taper? IOW can UN55 be used to replace old Shimano 600EX BBs? If tapers are mixed that can mess up the chain line: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html There is also the UN26 but that has a plastic cap and some people wrote that the wrench insert for BB cups won't fit in the plasstic pat so I am not sure I could tighten that with my tool set. D-3L are available. http://www.yellowjersey.org/bbopt.html Taper is the same. The sections of that taper are different. Your 1992 600 uses the revisionist smaller section (middle here): http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/3SPINDLE.JPG So yes, a 115mm sealed unit, maybe with a spacer under the right cup lip, would fit well. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#5
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Square taper BB questions
On 2017-05-25 18:29, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/25/2017 5:29 PM, Joerg wrote: Got a knackered Shimano 600 BB, this kind: D-3L 68 = W = 116 It is 116mm long in the spindle and symmetrical. The usual left-hand thread on the drive side. Last time I changed it out was in the 90's and the bike wasn't ridden until recently. Now you can't get these anymore. So I looked around and found UN55. Only 115mm long but that shouldn't matter. However, I also found that there are two kinds of square taper, JIS and ISO. I have Shimano 600EX cranks from 1982. Are those compatible with UN55 in the taper? IOW can UN55 be used to replace old Shimano 600EX BBs? If tapers are mixed that can mess up the chain line: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html There is also the UN26 but that has a plastic cap and some people wrote that the wrench insert for BB cups won't fit in the plasstic pat so I am not sure I could tighten that with my tool set. D-3L are available. http://www.yellowjersey.org/bbopt.html Thanks, Andrew, and your price is very good. However, I am quite tired of these adjustable kinds because they don't last long. The BB I just took out was the worst ever after less than 10k miles. I guess the hills here are more demanding that then ones where I rode before (Eastern Belgium and the ones east of Cologne in Germany). Taper is the same. The sections of that taper are different. Your 1992 600 uses the revisionist smaller section (middle here): http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/3SPINDLE.JPG Interesting, thanks. So the UN55 is JIS compliant in the taper? My cranks are FS-6207. So yes, a 115mm sealed unit, maybe with a spacer under the right cup lip, would fit well. Why a spacer under the right cup? Won't both cups go in all the way regardless of spindle length? The BB tube measures 2.665" or 67.7mm long. If I needed a spacer I'd have to make one. Or ask my MTB buddy to do that, he is a machinist. When I looked up the torque specs again for mounting this stuff I was surprised that they are in the 40Nm range or 35 inch-pounds. That's a lot. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#6
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Square taper BB questions
On 2017-05-26 07:24, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-25 18:29, AMuzi wrote: On 5/25/2017 5:29 PM, Joerg wrote: Got a knackered Shimano 600 BB, this kind: D-3L 68 = W = 116 It is 116mm long in the spindle and symmetrical. The usual left-hand thread on the drive side. Last time I changed it out was in the 90's and the bike wasn't ridden until recently. Now you can't get these anymore. So I looked around and found UN55. Only 115mm long but that shouldn't matter. However, I also found that there are two kinds of square taper, JIS and ISO. I have Shimano 600EX cranks from 1982. Are those compatible with UN55 in the taper? IOW can UN55 be used to replace old Shimano 600EX BBs? If tapers are mixed that can mess up the chain line: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html There is also the UN26 but that has a plastic cap and some people wrote that the wrench insert for BB cups won't fit in the plasstic pat so I am not sure I could tighten that with my tool set. D-3L are available. http://www.yellowjersey.org/bbopt.html Thanks, Andrew, and your price is very good. However, I am quite tired of these adjustable kinds because they don't last long. The BB I just took out was the worst ever after less than 10k miles. I guess the hills here are more demanding that then ones where I rode before (Eastern Belgium and the ones east of Cologne in Germany). Taper is the same. The sections of that taper are different. Your 1992 600 uses the revisionist smaller section (middle here): http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/3SPINDLE.JPG Interesting, thanks. So the UN55 is JIS compliant in the taper? My cranks are FS-6207. So yes, a 115mm sealed unit, maybe with a spacer under the right cup lip, would fit well. Why a spacer under the right cup? Won't both cups go in all the way regardless of spindle length? The BB tube measures 2.665" or 67.7mm long. If I needed a spacer I'd have to make one. Or ask my MTB buddy to do that, he is a machinist. When I looked up the torque specs again for mounting this stuff I was surprised that they are in the 40Nm range or 35 inch-pounds. That's a lot. I meant 350 inch-pounds. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#7
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Square taper BB questions
On 2017-05-25 18:29, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/25/2017 5:29 PM, Joerg wrote: Got a knackered Shimano 600 BB, this kind: D-3L 68 = W = 116 It is 116mm long in the spindle and symmetrical. The usual left-hand thread on the drive side. Last time I changed it out was in the 90's and the bike wasn't ridden until recently. Now you can't get these anymore. So I looked around and found UN55. Only 115mm long but that shouldn't matter. However, I also found that there are two kinds of square taper, JIS and ISO. I have Shimano 600EX cranks from 1982. Are those compatible with UN55 in the taper? IOW can UN55 be used to replace old Shimano 600EX BBs? If tapers are mixed that can mess up the chain line: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html There is also the UN26 but that has a plastic cap and some people wrote that the wrench insert for BB cups won't fit in the plasstic pat so I am not sure I could tighten that with my tool set. D-3L are available. http://www.yellowjersey.org/bbopt.html Taper is the same. The sections of that taper are different. Your 1992 600 uses the revisionist smaller section (middle here): http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/3SPINDLE.JPG So yes, a 115mm sealed unit, maybe with a spacer under the right cup lip, would fit well. Should arrive on June-3, I'll report back how it fits. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#8
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Square taper BB questions
On 2017-05-25 15:29, Joerg wrote:
Got a knackered Shimano 600 BB, this kind: D-3L 68 = W = 116 It is 116mm long in the spindle and symmetrical. The usual left-hand thread on the drive side. Last time I changed it out was in the 90's and the bike wasn't ridden until recently. Now you can't get these anymore. So I looked around and found UN55. Only 115mm long but that shouldn't matter. However, I also found that there are two kinds of square taper, JIS and ISO. I have Shimano 600EX cranks from 1982. Are those compatible with UN55 in the taper? IOW can UN55 be used to replace old Shimano 600EX BBs? If tapers are mixed that can mess up the chain line: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html There is also the UN26 but that has a plastic cap and some people wrote that the wrench insert for BB cups won't fit in the plasstic pat so I am not sure I could tighten that with my tool set. Some feedback: UN55 is JIS, it all fit well, no spacer needed. Did a 20mi test round yesterday, with brew pub visit, of course. What I did not like about the UN55 are that the included screws (must use, because shorter) have the washers welded to the heads and thus they scrape on the aluminum of the cranks when tightening. So I greased that up. Then the non-drive side cup is aluminum which doesn't instill high confidence. Ok, better than plastic, I assume. Let's see how long that will last. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ |
#9
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Square taper BB questions
On Monday, June 5, 2017 at 7:17:18 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-05-25 15:29, Joerg wrote: Got a knackered Shimano 600 BB, this kind: D-3L 68 = W = 116 It is 116mm long in the spindle and symmetrical. The usual left-hand thread on the drive side. Last time I changed it out was in the 90's and the bike wasn't ridden until recently. Now you can't get these anymore. So I looked around and found UN55. Only 115mm long but that shouldn't matter. However, I also found that there are two kinds of square taper, JIS and ISO. I have Shimano 600EX cranks from 1982. Are those compatible with UN55 in the taper? IOW can UN55 be used to replace old Shimano 600EX BBs? If tapers are mixed that can mess up the chain line: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html There is also the UN26 but that has a plastic cap and some people wrote that the wrench insert for BB cups won't fit in the plasstic pat so I am not sure I could tighten that with my tool set. Some feedback: UN55 is JIS, it all fit well, no spacer needed. Did a 20mi test round yesterday, with brew pub visit, of course. What I did not like about the UN55 are that the included screws (must use, because shorter) have the washers welded to the heads and thus they scrape on the aluminum of the cranks when tightening. So I greased that up. Then the non-drive side cup is aluminum which doesn't instill high confidence. Ok, better than plastic, I assume. Let's see how long that will last. In my experience I haven't had any problems. Though I'm going to have to look at my triple pretty quick to see what the sound is coming when I crank. But this is Campagnolo and they didn't seem to have any problems with plastic non-drive side. |
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