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Bicycle riddle



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 28th 17, 07:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Bicycle riddle

On 5/28/2017 10:07 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2017 4:06 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, May 27, 2017 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2017 8:53 AM,
wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 8:36:41 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Bicycle riddle:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...icycle-killer/


Is there supposed to be something there other than a written question?


click this, Tom:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...f-the-week-28/



When did people start playing poker with a joker in the deck?


Never.

In my experience, dealer opens a new deck with all participants
watching, removes the joker and shuffles before dealing.

"53 cards are in the room" doesn't mean 53 cards are in play or dealt or
relevant to anything about poker.


Actually, 53 bicycles in the room (as stated in the original riddle)
would mean something like 26.5 cards. Each "Bicycle" brand playing card
shows two bicycles, not just one.

At least, that's what I assume, based on the name. On the cards,
they're illustrated as a head on view, ridden by angels. If not for the
name, one might suppose the angels are riding unicycles.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #12  
Old May 28th 17, 07:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 10,538
Default Bicycle riddle

On 5/27/2017 12:21 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 11:48:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2017 20:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

Bicycle riddle:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...icycle-killer/
- Frank Krygowski


When you're done with that bicycle riddle, try this bicycle mechanical
problem:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a26070/riddle-of-the-week-24/
(I guessed wrong, as usual).


I got it, but by a very different mental process than what they used.

I'll hold off discussing until others have had a chance to work on it.

- Frank Krygowski


So little interest in the riddle that was actually technical!

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #13  
Old May 28th 17, 07:58 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
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Posts: 853
Default Bicycle riddle

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/27/2017 12:21 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 11:48:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2017 20:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

Bicycle riddle:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...icycle-killer/
- Frank Krygowski

When you're done with that bicycle riddle, try this bicycle mechanical
problem:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a26070/riddle-of-the-week-24/
(I guessed wrong, as usual).


I got it, but by a very different mental process than what they used.

I'll hold off discussing until others have had a chance to work on it.

- Frank Krygowski


So little interest in the riddle that was actually technical!


It was relatively obvious (by virtue of the fact that it was posed as a
riddle, there had to be some non-intuitiveness to the answer) and I deduced
the right answer. There just wasn't much left to talk about afterwards.

  #14  
Old May 28th 17, 10:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Jeff Liebermann
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Posts: 4,018
Default Bicycle riddle

On Sun, 28 May 2017 14:07:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Actually, 53 bicycles in the room (as stated in the original riddle)
would mean something like 26.5 cards. Each "Bicycle" brand playing card
shows two bicycles, not just one.


Yep, although the alleged bicycle appears rather painful to ride
without a saddle and is missing the pedals:
https://cdn3.volusion.com/artgw.hyvvw/v/vspfiles/photos/CB00741-3.jpg

At least, that's what I assume, based on the name. On the cards,
they're illustrated as a head on view, ridden by angels. If not for the
name, one might suppose the angels are riding unicycles.


I would guess(tm) that a unicycle could be considered half of a
bicycle, thus returning the total count to 53.

At one time, Bicycle playing cards had recognizeable bicycles on the
back:
http://www.bicyclecards.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/18921.jpg

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D
http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
  #15  
Old May 28th 17, 10:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Bicycle riddle

On 5/28/2017 2:58 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/27/2017 12:21 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 11:48:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2017 20:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

Bicycle riddle:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...icycle-killer/
- Frank Krygowski

When you're done with that bicycle riddle, try this bicycle mechanical
problem:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a26070/riddle-of-the-week-24/
(I guessed wrong, as usual).

I got it, but by a very different mental process than what they used.

I'll hold off discussing until others have had a chance to work on it.

- Frank Krygowski


So little interest in the riddle that was actually technical!


It was relatively obvious (by virtue of the fact that it was posed as a
riddle, there had to be some non-intuitiveness to the answer) and I deduced
the right answer. There just wasn't much left to talk about afterwards.


Just curious: How did you deduce the right answer?

I can see one very detailed way, requiring some simple math, and one
sort of shortcut way, no numbers required. I used the shortcut.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #16  
Old May 28th 17, 11:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,345
Default Bicycle riddle

On Sunday, May 28, 2017 at 2:56:44 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/28/2017 2:58 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/27/2017 12:21 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 11:48:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2017 20:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

Bicycle riddle:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...icycle-killer/
- Frank Krygowski

When you're done with that bicycle riddle, try this bicycle mechanical
problem:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a26070/riddle-of-the-week-24/
(I guessed wrong, as usual).

I got it, but by a very different mental process than what they used.

I'll hold off discussing until others have had a chance to work on it.

- Frank Krygowski

So little interest in the riddle that was actually technical!


It was relatively obvious (by virtue of the fact that it was posed as a
riddle, there had to be some non-intuitiveness to the answer) and I deduced
the right answer. There just wasn't much left to talk about afterwards.


Just curious: How did you deduce the right answer?

I can see one very detailed way, requiring some simple math, and one
sort of shortcut way, no numbers required. I used the shortcut.


I haven't played any game requiring cards since I was a child. And the number 53 would not have occurred to me since only children that were a lot younger than me played with a deck of cards with a joker in it.

So there was no way I could have deduced that.
  #17  
Old May 29th 17, 12:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default Bicycle riddle

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/28/2017 2:58 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/27/2017 12:21 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 11:48:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2017 20:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

Bicycle riddle:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...icycle-killer/
- Frank Krygowski

When you're done with that bicycle riddle, try this bicycle mechanical
problem:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a26070/riddle-of-the-week-24/
(I guessed wrong, as usual).

I got it, but by a very different mental process than what they used.

I'll hold off discussing until others have had a chance to work on it.

- Frank Krygowski

So little interest in the riddle that was actually technical!


It was relatively obvious (by virtue of the fact that it was posed as a
riddle, there had to be some non-intuitiveness to the answer) and I deduced
the right answer. There just wasn't much left to talk about afterwards.


Just curious: How did you deduce the right answer?

I can see one very detailed way, requiring some simple math, and one
sort of shortcut way, no numbers required. I used the shortcut.


If you look at the system, the "gain" in torque
from pedals to wheels is less than one (for almost all bikes), therefore
the mechanical advantage is greater than one in the other direction. If you
had locked the drivetrain and pulled on the pedal with a string, there
would be equal and opposite forces on the pedal and the tire. Putting it
all together, if you apply some force to the tire and an equal force to the
pedal, the force applied to the tire will "win" and the bike will move
forwards.
  #18  
Old May 29th 17, 02:57 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Bicycle riddle

On 5/28/2017 7:55 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/28/2017 2:58 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/27/2017 12:21 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 11:48:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2017 20:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

Bicycle riddle:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...icycle-killer/
- Frank Krygowski

When you're done with that bicycle riddle, try this bicycle mechanical
problem:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a26070/riddle-of-the-week-24/
(I guessed wrong, as usual).

I got it, but by a very different mental process than what they used.

I'll hold off discussing until others have had a chance to work on it.

- Frank Krygowski

So little interest in the riddle that was actually technical!


It was relatively obvious (by virtue of the fact that it was posed as a
riddle, there had to be some non-intuitiveness to the answer) and I deduced
the right answer. There just wasn't much left to talk about afterwards.


Just curious: How did you deduce the right answer?

I can see one very detailed way, requiring some simple math, and one
sort of shortcut way, no numbers required. I used the shortcut.


If you look at the system, the "gain" in torque
from pedals to wheels is less than one (for almost all bikes), therefore
the mechanical advantage is greater than one in the other direction. If you
had locked the drivetrain and pulled on the pedal with a string, there
would be equal and opposite forces on the pedal and the tire. Putting it
all together, if you apply some force to the tire and an equal force to the
pedal, the force applied to the tire will "win" and the bike will move
forwards.


Except you got it wrong!

For the pedal position shown (crank vertical, string pulling
horizontally backwards on the bottom pedal, and a bike with common
gearing) the bike moves _backwards_ when the string tries to rotate the
cranks in their normal direction.

See
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...f-the-week-24/

So the new question is: Why?

Or if people want to get more mathematical, we could ask under what
conditions would the bike move forward instead.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #19  
Old May 29th 17, 04:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default Bicycle riddle

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/28/2017 7:55 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/28/2017 2:58 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/27/2017 12:21 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 11:48:13 PM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Fri, 26 May 2017 20:36:39 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski wrote:

Bicycle riddle:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...icycle-killer/
- Frank Krygowski

When you're done with that bicycle riddle, try this bicycle mechanical
problem:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/math/a26070/riddle-of-the-week-24/
(I guessed wrong, as usual).

I got it, but by a very different mental process than what they used.

I'll hold off discussing until others have had a chance to work on it.

- Frank Krygowski

So little interest in the riddle that was actually technical!


It was relatively obvious (by virtue of the fact that it was posed as a
riddle, there had to be some non-intuitiveness to the answer) and I deduced
the right answer. There just wasn't much left to talk about afterwards.

Just curious: How did you deduce the right answer?

I can see one very detailed way, requiring some simple math, and one
sort of shortcut way, no numbers required. I used the shortcut.


If you look at the system, the "gain" in torque
from pedals to wheels is less than one (for almost all bikes), therefore
the mechanical advantage is greater than one in the other direction. If you
had locked the drivetrain and pulled on the pedal with a string, there
would be equal and opposite forces on the pedal and the tire. Putting it
all together, if you apply some force to the tire and an equal force to the
pedal, the force applied to the tire will "win" and the bike will move
forwards.


Except you got it wrong!

For the pedal position shown (crank vertical, string pulling
horizontally backwards on the bottom pedal, and a bike with common
gearing) the bike moves _backwards_ when the string tries to rotate the
cranks in their normal direction.

See
http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...f-the-week-24/

So the new question is: Why?

Or if people want to get more mathematical, we could ask under what
conditions would the bike move forward instead.


Yeah, that too... I actually did get it right, then botched it during the
explanation (and you can choose to believe that it or not, as you see fit).

I alluded to one possible situation where the bike would go forward, and
that was ultra low geared bikes. If the combination of long cranks, small
front chainring, large rear sprocket and small rear wheel combined to make
the bike move less than 2•pi•crank length for each rotation of the crank,
then the bike will move forwards (at first, at least).

  #20  
Old May 29th 17, 12:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Theodore Heise[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 132
Default Bicycle riddle

On Sun, 28 May 2017 09:07:31 -0500,
AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2017 4:06 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, May 27, 2017 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/27/2017 8:53 AM,
wrote:
On Friday, May 26, 2017 at 8:36:41 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Bicycle riddle:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...icycle-killer/

Is there supposed to be something there other than a written
question?

click this, Tom:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/scie...f-the-week-28/


When did people start playing poker with a joker in the deck?


Never.

In my experience, dealer opens a new deck with all participants
watching, removes the joker and shuffles before dealing.


I seem to recall that new decks typically have not one, but two
jokers.

--
Ted Heise Bloomington, IN, USA
 




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