What happens to bike Bell?

On 9/11/2016 10:55 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Some people need to be shout at to keep it save for both me and them. If
the OP gives me the middle finger I say same to you. If you don't want to
be shout at or something else keep to the right, don't do stupid things and
don't ride two abreast on a narrow bikepath or road. Easy.

Speaking of keeping to the right: One of the weirdnesses of bike/ped
paths is that on roads without sidewalks, an American pedestrian is
expected to walk on the left, facing oncoming traffic. But on ordinary
sidewalks (and in malls, etc.) most American pedestrians walk on the
right.

On MUPs, it would be more logical for peds to treat the path as a road
and walk on the left. But they never do. So the cyclists are
continually passing peds from behind. It's kind of nuts.

Even worse, in North Dakota (near Bismarck) we were on a bike path that
had signs telling peds to keep right and bikes to keep _left_. IMO,
that probably led many cyclists to ride on the left on ordinary streets.
Again, it's nuts.

--
- Frank Krygowski

"W. Wesley Groleau" writes:

On 09-10-2016 18:45, Radey Shouman wrote:
Red Cloud writes:

"Ting..ting.." Notice today bikers use less bike bell. It was used
to popular in the past that bike bell sounds representing a bicycle
was passing by. Why not use any more today? One of my childish songs I
still remember is about "Ting ting biker is coming and stay in a
side.." The time when bikers used bike bell. I think using bike bell
just does not fit the today newage biker fashion and style. Imagine
Lance Armstrong type of cyclist using bike bell may look so
childish. So they shout like a commander in chief: "LEFT.."

Use bike bell more and stop shout like angry chief.. I always give
Middle-Finger at shouting cyclist...

I have a bell, and use it when riding on paths with dog walkers and
suchlike. Often it works well, although I have seen at least one person
suddenly look around behind herself for the change she must have dropped.

I have found that half the people hiking in Spain don't hear the bell
or the shout, in both English and Spanish.

I have found that there is a local culture, not just for countries but
for individual paths. On some bells signal, on others they just mystify.


But I don't shout "left!" I say "Bicycle passing on the left!" (or right)

--

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 21:22:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I do use a bell for warning. I'll start ringing at _least_ five seconds
before passing, and ring it fairly continuously if necessary.

Ok, we have our first number.
1 mph = 5280 ft/hour = 5280/60/60 = 1.5 ft/sec
Assuming that you're on a semi-crowded roadway, riding about twice as
fast as the walkers, my guess(tm) is you would be going about 6 mph or
9 ft/sec. In 5 seconds, you would have travelled:
5sec * 9ft/sec = 45ft
45 ft is a long way off and I doubt that a pedestrian can even hear a
bicycle bell at 45 ft. This calculation is why I asked for the speed.

I'm not sure, but my guess(tm) is that I don't give pedestrians enough
time to get out of the way. I want to try it on a real walkway, but I
suspedct that I give pedestrians more than about 2 seconds to react,
plus about 1 or 2 seconds for them to actually move out of the way.
However, I'm guessing and want to first measure my speed and timing to
be sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking
"...the average human walking speed is about 5.0 kilometres
per hour (km/h), or about 3.1 miles per hour (mph)."



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 21:27:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Speaking of keeping to the right: One of the weirdnesses of bike/ped
paths is that on roads without sidewalks, an American pedestrian is
expected to walk on the left, facing oncoming traffic. But on ordinary
sidewalks (and in malls, etc.) most American pedestrians walk on the
right.

On MUPs, it would be more logical for peds to treat the path as a road
and walk on the left. But they never do. So the cyclists are
continually passing peds from behind. It's kind of nuts.

Even worse, in North Dakota (near Bismarck) we were on a bike path that
had signs telling peds to keep right and bikes to keep _left_. IMO,
that probably led many cyclists to ride on the left on ordinary streets.
Again, it's nuts.

Rhetorical questions:
I ocassionally need to walk my bicycle.
1. Do I walk my bicycle on the right or left side of the road?
2. If left, do I cross the street to the right side every time I want
to mount the bicycle and ride it?

Extra credit:
1. Can I legally walk my bicycle in the bicycle lane?
2. Which way do I walk my bicycle on a one way street?
3. If I carry my bicycle, am I legally a pedestrian?
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 20:41:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 21:27:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Speaking of keeping to the right: One of the weirdnesses of bike/ped
paths is that on roads without sidewalks, an American pedestrian is
expected to walk on the left, facing oncoming traffic. But on ordinary
sidewalks (and in malls, etc.) most American pedestrians walk on the
right.

On MUPs, it would be more logical for peds to treat the path as a road
and walk on the left. But they never do. So the cyclists are
continually passing peds from behind. It's kind of nuts.

Even worse, in North Dakota (near Bismarck) we were on a bike path that
had signs telling peds to keep right and bikes to keep _left_. IMO,
that probably led many cyclists to ride on the left on ordinary streets.
Again, it's nuts.

Rhetorical questions:
I ocassionally need to walk my bicycle.
1. Do I walk my bicycle on the right or left side of the road?
2. If left, do I cross the street to the right side every time I want
to mount the bicycle and ride it?

But even more important, on which side do you walk your bicycle?
Traditionally it would be on the bicycle's left hand side but in these
modern times perhaps that custom has been ignored. After all today's
two wheeled steed doesn't rear up and kick when an attempt to mount it
from the "wrong side" is attempted.

Extra credit:
1. Can I legally walk my bicycle in the bicycle lane?
2. Which way do I walk my bicycle on a one way street?
3. If I carry my bicycle, am I legally a pedestrian?

If you carry your bicycle then you are a "carrier" and thus restricted
to those areas reserved for carriers.
--
cheers,

John B.

Per Jeff Liebermann:
Out of curiosity, how many seconds warning do you give a pedestrian
before ringing a bell or honking a horn? Speed will make a big
difference so please include the approximate closing speed. By
warning time, I mean how quickly do you expect a pedestrian to move
out of your way?

I avoided having a bell for a long time thinking that ringing a bell was
the equivalent to yelling "Get out of my way....".

After scaring an elderly couple half to death on a forest path -
thinking the crunching of gravel by my tires gave them plenty notice - I
got a single-ding bell and started using.

Beeeeeeg surprise. Nobody so far has reacted negatively and it's been
at least 4 years. When I used to say "On your left..." every so often
I'd get back something like "And so does your momma!!!!".... Never with
the bell... in fact every so often somebody says "Thank You".

In answer to the question: I never, ever expect a pedestrian to get out
of my way. The purpose of the bell is to alert them so they will not
be startled when 200+ pounds of meat passes by..... than and reduce the
chance that a jogger will suddenly stop and do a 180 into my path (been
there....)

The single-dinger has quite range of volume - from a deadened metallic
"Clunk" with one finger on the bell housing to a fairly loud ring.... I
vary the volume, number of rings, any rhythm to the situation.

In general I am surprised at how little it takes and at what a long
distance it works to alert people.

The worry some situations involve people wearing ear buds.

But assuming somebody is going to get out of my way? No way Jose'.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 9/11/2016 11:27 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 21:22:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I do use a bell for warning. I'll start ringing at _least_ five seconds
before passing, and ring it fairly continuously if necessary.

Ok, we have our first number.
1 mph = 5280 ft/hour = 5280/60/60 = 1.5 ft/sec
Assuming that you're on a semi-crowded roadway, riding about twice as
fast as the walkers, my guess(tm) is you would be going about 6 mph or
9 ft/sec. In 5 seconds, you would have travelled:
5sec * 9ft/sec = 45ft
45 ft is a long way off and I doubt that a pedestrian can even hear a
bicycle bell at 45 ft. This calculation is why I asked for the speed.

I'm not sure, but my guess(tm) is that I don't give pedestrians enough
time to get out of the way. I want to try it on a real walkway, but I
suspedct that I give pedestrians more than about 2 seconds to react,
plus about 1 or 2 seconds for them to actually move out of the way.
However, I'm guessing and want to first measure my speed and timing to
be sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walking
"...the average human walking speed is about 5.0 kilometres
per hour (km/h), or about 3.1 miles per hour (mph)."

In that situation, my speed when approaching would normally be higher,
between 10 and 15 mph. I'll usually slow down as I get close. But as I
said, I'll ring the bell repeatedly. If they don't turn around or
otherwise react, I'll gently say "Bicycle" when I'm within about 10
feet. (All these numbers are guesses, of course.)

Vaguely related: Sounds can be confusing. As a teenager, I learned to
whistle very loudly with two fingers between my teeth. I once measured
the loudness of my whistle, and it was over 100 dB, IIRC.

Anyway, on a recent club ride, someone got a flat tire. I was in the
middle of the spread-out pack, riding maybe 100 feet behind the people
at the front. Those of us toward the back stopped to help and wait, and
I whistled very loudly to stop those at the front. They kept riding. I
whistled again, then again. No success.

The flat got fixed, and we eventually caught up with those who hadn't
stopped. They said "Oh, was that _you_ whistling? We were trying to
figure out what that bird was!"


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 9/11/2016 11:41 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 21:27:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

Speaking of keeping to the right: One of the weirdnesses of bike/ped
paths is that on roads without sidewalks, an American pedestrian is
expected to walk on the left, facing oncoming traffic. But on ordinary
sidewalks (and in malls, etc.) most American pedestrians walk on the
right.

On MUPs, it would be more logical for peds to treat the path as a road
and walk on the left. But they never do. So the cyclists are
continually passing peds from behind. It's kind of nuts.

Even worse, in North Dakota (near Bismarck) we were on a bike path that
had signs telling peds to keep right and bikes to keep _left_. IMO,
that probably led many cyclists to ride on the left on ordinary streets.
Again, it's nuts.

Rhetorical questions:
I ocassionally need to walk my bicycle.
1. Do I walk my bicycle on the right or left side of the road?
2. If left, do I cross the street to the right side every time I want
to mount the bicycle and ride it?

Extra credit:
1. Can I legally walk my bicycle in the bicycle lane?
2. Which way do I walk my bicycle on a one way street?
3. If I carry my bicycle, am I legally a pedestrian?


If you walk your bicycle, you're legally a pedestrian. If you ride,
you're legally a vehicle operator. Those facts should make the answers
to your questions clear.

BTW, every once in a while I come across a newspaper story telling of a
"bicyclist fatality" in which the bicyclist was actually walking the
bike. That makes as much sense as calling it a "cell phone fatality"
because a pedestrian had a cell phone in his pocket.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann writes:

On Sun, 11 Sep 2016 21:22:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

I do use a bell for warning. I'll start ringing at _least_ five seconds
before passing, and ring it fairly continuously if necessary.

Ok, we have our first number.
1 mph = 5280 ft/hour = 5280/60/60 = 1.5 ft/sec
Assuming that you're on a semi-crowded roadway, riding about twice as
fast as the walkers, my guess(tm) is you would be going about 6 mph or
9 ft/sec. In 5 seconds, you would have travelled:
5sec * 9ft/sec = 45ft
45 ft is a long way off and I doubt that a pedestrian can even hear a
bicycle bell at 45 ft. This calculation is why I asked for the speed.

I'm not sure, but my guess(tm) is that I don't give pedestrians enough
time to get out of the way. I want to try it on a real walkway, but I
suspedct that I give pedestrians more than about 2 seconds to react,
plus about 1 or 2 seconds for them to actually move out of the way.
However, I'm guessing and want to first measure my speed and timing to
be sure.

In order to actually get someone to move *out* of my way on a typical
path I have to slow down, often to 5 mph or less. My typical use of the
bell is to warn pedestrians, skateboarders, and slower cyclists not to
get *into* my way. And, hopefully, not to be startled when passed.

Of course, it's necessary to judge how likely someone is to move
inconveniently. Runners, if alone, typically stay to the right. Dog
walkers and their dogs may move in any direction at any time. Younger
sprogs, whether on bicycles, scooters, or afoot are the most
unpredictable.


--

Per (PeteCresswell):
vary the volume, number of rings, any rhythm to the situation.

SHB "...and rhythm...

The worry some situations involve people wearing ear buds.

SHB "...worrisome..."
--
Pete Cresswell