Chain lube for wet _and_ dry?

On 9/23/2016 3:07 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-23 11:54, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/23/2016 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-22 18:35, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:59:11 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Chain lube is probably a contentious topic. On the road bike I am
happy
since a thorough cleaning and application of White Lightning Epic Ride
easily lasts 200 miles.

Mountain bike, very different story. On dry dusty rides I can get 50
miles out of an Epic Ride lube without the chain making nasty noises.
But when the ride is dry and then wet all bets are off. Yesterday it
was
the usual dusty ride at first but a slight yet persistent drizzle
started about 10 miles into the ride. Long story short a mere 35 miles
after a fresh lube the chain started making horrid squeaking noises
once
the rain had stopped. Seemingly the lube had been flushed out. I
had no
choice but to continue another 10mi in order to get home. Mostly
uphill
and the sound was awful.

Most advice sites split between wet and dry situations but that just
does not cut it outside summer season:

http://oldglorymtb.com/best-mountain...ry-conditions/




The chain is a KMC X93 10-speed. I need a lube that lasts through a
50mi
dirt trail ride regardless of weather conditions.

Any words of wisdom from other all-weather MTB riders?

Try the paraffin lube system that both James and Frank use,


If that means boiling the chain in a paraffin pot, storing chains in
there and mount them in a rotating pattern as a high-mileage ciclyst
friend does, I don't really want to go to that much effort.


In my case, it doesn't mean that. It means waxing the chain while it's
on the bike, using a low-flame propane torch to heat about 10 links at a
time. It takes less than five minutes per bike.

I'd give details yet again, but it probably wouldn't work for you.


I have a propane torch and also a 240V industrial (electrical) hot air
gun used for shrink tubing. Why wouldn't it work for me? Because of the
grit and dust from trails?

I was basing it on your long track record of saying that nothing works
for you, except the things you come up with on your own.

Chain cleaning takes at least 20mins each bike. The MTB chain has caked
brown dirt which comes off easy. The road chain bike is fairly clean
after lots of bike path riding but grimy soot-black after riding lots of
road. Gives me goose bumps thinking that I also breath whatever causes
this. I found the disposable interdental brushes to work great for
cleaning. First used for my teeth, rinsed, dried, they go into a coin
envelope and that is used up in the garage. So they all work two jobs.

Lubing takes 10mins because I carefully dab it onto each link via Q-tip.

Yow.

There was a time I carefully applied oil to each pin, after first
washing the chain down with either a solvent bath or WD-40 on the bike.
Then I'd have to wash the bike because of the accumulation of black gunk
on cogs, chainrings, spokes, chainstay, etc. But I stopped being that
fussy decades ago.

The thing about paraffin wax (with a bit of oil blended in) is that it
picks up almost no road grit in the first place. The only chain
cleaning I do is back-pedaling the chain through a wad of paper towels
after the wax has been applied. This lube has been shown to give the
longest chain life by far. And supposedly, if you use teflon powder in
place of oil in the mix, it's the most efficient i.e. lowest friction loss.

But YMMV usually varies way, way more than anyone else's. So it
probably wouldn't work for you.


--
- Frank Krygowski

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2016-09-23 13:08, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2016-09-22 18:35, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:59:11 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Chain lube is probably a contentious topic. On the road bike I am
happy
since a thorough cleaning and application of White Lightning Epic Ride
easily lasts 200 miles.

Mountain bike, very different story. On dry dusty rides I can get 50
miles out of an Epic Ride lube without the chain making nasty noises.
But when the ride is dry and then wet all bets are off. Yesterday it
was
the usual dusty ride at first but a slight yet persistent drizzle
started about 10 miles into the ride. Long story short a mere 35 miles
after a fresh lube the chain started making horrid squeaking noises
once
the rain had stopped. Seemingly the lube had been flushed out. I had
no
choice but to continue another 10mi in order to get home. Mostly
uphill
and the sound was awful.

Most advice sites split between wet and dry situations but that just
does not cut it outside summer season:

http://oldglorymtb.com/best-mountain...ry-conditions/


The chain is a KMC X93 10-speed. I need a lube that lasts through a
50mi
dirt trail ride regardless of weather conditions.

Any words of wisdom from other all-weather MTB riders?

Try the paraffin lube system that both James and Frank use,


If that means boiling the chain in a paraffin pot, storing chains in
there and mount them in a rotating pattern as a high-mileage ciclyst
friend does, I don't really want to go to that much effort.

In the days when I still trusted those tubs of chain lube wax that you
put on the stove - I started wondering if there's a risk of ruining the
temper of the steel.

Parafin is good for cleaning chains, but you can get cellulose thinners
cheap as "gun wash". It usually has a bit of sediment, but it doesn't
leave as much film as the fuel-oil.


My wife would object to cooking bicycle chains in the kitchen. Well, at
least she allows me to boil the wort for beer brewing in there but
afterwards I have to take it outside.


My preferred method of lubrication is to pre treat with molybdenum and
then use PTFE.

The cheapest moly is car wheel bearing grease, but its tedious to apply
evenly and makes a mess. Molyslip engine additive is more expensive, but
can be applied with an oil can.


I only found Molyslip in the UK but could ask at the car place here in
town. I live in the Western US. Maybe they can order it somehow.

Molyslip engine treatment used to be easy to get hold of - last time I
wanted some, Halfords only had Molyslip gearbox treatment.

There are probably other molybdenum oil treatments - I just don't know about
any of them.

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2016-09-23 13:08, Benderthe.evilrobot wrote:

"Joerg" wrote in message
...
On 2016-09-22 18:35, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:59:11 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Chain lube is probably a contentious topic. On the road bike I am
happy
since a thorough cleaning and application of White Lightning Epic Ride
easily lasts 200 miles.

Mountain bike, very different story. On dry dusty rides I can get 50
miles out of an Epic Ride lube without the chain making nasty noises.
But when the ride is dry and then wet all bets are off. Yesterday it
was
the usual dusty ride at first but a slight yet persistent drizzle
started about 10 miles into the ride. Long story short a mere 35 miles
after a fresh lube the chain started making horrid squeaking noises
once
the rain had stopped. Seemingly the lube had been flushed out. I had
no
choice but to continue another 10mi in order to get home. Mostly
uphill
and the sound was awful.

Most advice sites split between wet and dry situations but that just
does not cut it outside summer season:

http://oldglorymtb.com/best-mountain...ry-conditions/


The chain is a KMC X93 10-speed. I need a lube that lasts through a
50mi
dirt trail ride regardless of weather conditions.

Any words of wisdom from other all-weather MTB riders?

Try the paraffin lube system that both James and Frank use,


If that means boiling the chain in a paraffin pot, storing chains in
there and mount them in a rotating pattern as a high-mileage ciclyst
friend does, I don't really want to go to that much effort.

In the days when I still trusted those tubs of chain lube wax that you
put on the stove - I started wondering if there's a risk of ruining the
temper of the steel.

Parafin is good for cleaning chains, but you can get cellulose thinners
cheap as "gun wash". It usually has a bit of sediment, but it doesn't
leave as much film as the fuel-oil.


My wife would object to cooking bicycle chains in the kitchen. Well, at
least she allows me to boil the wort for beer brewing in there but
afterwards I have to take it outside.


My preferred method of lubrication is to pre treat with molybdenum and
then use PTFE.

The cheapest moly is car wheel bearing grease, but its tedious to apply
evenly and makes a mess. Molyslip engine additive is more expensive, but
can be applied with an oil can.


I only found Molyslip in the UK but could ask at the car place here in
town. I live in the Western US. Maybe they can order it somehow.

http://www.molyslip.com/

Do you use that on dirt trails?


There's various options for the ongoing PTFE - Finish-line PTFE bicycle
grease, Slick 50 engine additive or the more expensive dry powder PTFE -
once you get it on there; it doesn't fling off.


The White Lightning I use right now is essentially a PTFE lube. It works
great on the road bike, gives me over 200mi per lube which is beyond
expectations. Problem is that it's sometimes less than 40mi on the MTB and
my trail rides are longer than that.

Dry film PTFE doesn't fling off and grit doesn't stick to it so much.

PTFE works a lot better if you work molybdenum into the metal surfaces
first.

On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 4:59:05 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
Chain lube is probably a contentious topic. On the road bike I am happy
since a thorough cleaning and application of White Lightning Epic Ride
easily lasts 200 miles.

Mountain bike, very different story. On dry dusty rides I can get 50
miles out of an Epic Ride lube without the chain making nasty noises.
But when the ride is dry and then wet all bets are off. Yesterday it was
the usual dusty ride at first but a slight yet persistent drizzle
started about 10 miles into the ride. Long story short a mere 35 miles
after a fresh lube the chain started making horrid squeaking noises once
the rain had stopped. Seemingly the lube had been flushed out. I had no
choice but to continue another 10mi in order to get home. Mostly uphill
and the sound was awful.

Most advice sites split between wet and dry situations but that just
does not cut it outside summer season:

http://oldglorymtb.com/best-mountain...ry-conditions/

The chain is a KMC X93 10-speed. I need a lube that lasts through a 50mi
dirt trail ride regardless of weather conditions.

Any words of wisdom from other all-weather MTB riders?


If it's wet and going to be wet for the duration of the ride, skip the lube and let rainwater lube it.

Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-23 11:54, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/23/2016 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-22 18:35, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:59:11 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Chain lube is probably a contentious topic. On the road bike I am happy
since a thorough cleaning and application of White Lightning Epic Ride
easily lasts 200 miles.

Mountain bike, very different story. On dry dusty rides I can get 50
miles out of an Epic Ride lube without the chain making nasty noises.
But when the ride is dry and then wet all bets are off. Yesterday it
was
the usual dusty ride at first but a slight yet persistent drizzle
started about 10 miles into the ride. Long story short a mere 35 miles
after a fresh lube the chain started making horrid squeaking noises
once
the rain had stopped. Seemingly the lube had been flushed out. I had no
choice but to continue another 10mi in order to get home. Mostly uphill
and the sound was awful.

Most advice sites split between wet and dry situations but that just
does not cut it outside summer season:

http://oldglorymtb.com/best-mountain...ry-conditions/



The chain is a KMC X93 10-speed. I need a lube that lasts through a
50mi
dirt trail ride regardless of weather conditions.

Any words of wisdom from other all-weather MTB riders?

Try the paraffin lube system that both James and Frank use,


If that means boiling the chain in a paraffin pot, storing chains in
there and mount them in a rotating pattern as a high-mileage ciclyst
friend does, I don't really want to go to that much effort.


In my case, it doesn't mean that. It means waxing the chain while it's
on the bike, using a low-flame propane torch to heat about 10 links at a
time. It takes less than five minutes per bike.

I'd give details yet again, but it probably wouldn't work for you.


I have a propane torch and also a 240V industrial (electrical) hot air
gun used for shrink tubing. Why wouldn't it work for me? Because of the
grit and dust from trails?

Chain cleaning takes at least 20mins each bike. The MTB chain has caked
brown dirt which comes off easy. The road chain bike is fairly clean
after lots of bike path riding but grimy soot-black after riding lots of
road. Gives me goose bumps thinking that I also breath whatever causes
this. I found the disposable interdental brushes to work great for
cleaning. First used for my teeth, rinsed, dried, they go into a coin
envelope and that is used up in the garage. So they all work two jobs.

Lubing takes 10mins because I carefully dab it onto each link via Q-tip.


Interdental brushes, Q tips, unbelievable....

--
Lou

jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 12:07:20 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-23 11:54, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/23/2016 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-22 18:35, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:59:11 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Chain lube is probably a contentious topic. On the road bike I am happy
since a thorough cleaning and application of White Lightning Epic Ride
easily lasts 200 miles.

Mountain bike, very different story. On dry dusty rides I can get 50
miles out of an Epic Ride lube without the chain making nasty noises.
But when the ride is dry and then wet all bets are off. Yesterday it
was
the usual dusty ride at first but a slight yet persistent drizzle
started about 10 miles into the ride. Long story short a mere 35 miles
after a fresh lube the chain started making horrid squeaking noises
once
the rain had stopped. Seemingly the lube had been flushed out. I had no
choice but to continue another 10mi in order to get home. Mostly uphill
and the sound was awful.

Most advice sites split between wet and dry situations but that just
does not cut it outside summer season:

http://oldglorymtb.com/best-mountain...ry-conditions/



The chain is a KMC X93 10-speed. I need a lube that lasts through a
50mi
dirt trail ride regardless of weather conditions.

Any words of wisdom from other all-weather MTB riders?

Try the paraffin lube system that both James and Frank use,


If that means boiling the chain in a paraffin pot, storing chains in
there and mount them in a rotating pattern as a high-mileage ciclyst
friend does, I don't really want to go to that much effort.


In my case, it doesn't mean that. It means waxing the chain while it's
on the bike, using a low-flame propane torch to heat about 10 links at a
time. It takes less than five minutes per bike.

I'd give details yet again, but it probably wouldn't work for you.


I have a propane torch and also a 240V industrial (electrical) hot air
gun used for shrink tubing. Why wouldn't it work for me? Because of the
grit and dust from trails?

Chain cleaning takes at least 20mins each bike. The MTB chain has caked
brown dirt which comes off easy. The road chain bike is fairly clean
after lots of bike path riding but grimy soot-black after riding lots of
road. Gives me goose bumps thinking that I also breath whatever causes
this. I found the disposable interdental brushes to work great for
cleaning. First used for my teeth, rinsed, dried, they go into a coin
envelope and that is used up in the garage. So they all work two jobs.

Lubing takes 10mins because I carefully dab it onto each link via Q-tip.

You go to all that work, yet you use a hose-clamp on your headset. Incroyable.

I clean my chain in an ultrasonic cleaner followed by an autoclave and
then polish each link with a Dremel buffer followed by final polish with
a Q-tip and Semichrome. Then I apply a five-part "wax" lubricant
containing molybdenum, graphite, Teflon and parafin and nitro-glycerin.
Mixing safely is critical.

I allow that to dry thoroughly for a week followed by a 73.25 hour curing
period in a heat/humidity controlled chamber that I built in my garage.
One the chain is ready to ride, it produce a characteristic smell that
can be detected by my specially trained Chihuahua lube-dog.

In the alternative, I skip all cleaning, squirt on some motorcycle chain
lube -- or whatever lubricant is sitting next to the garage door -- and
then go for a ride.

-- Jay Beattie.





Exactly.

--
Lou

On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 6:04:28 PM UTC-4, Lou Holtman wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-23 11:54, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/23/2016 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-22 18:35, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:59:11 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Chain lube is probably a contentious topic. On the road bike I am happy
since a thorough cleaning and application of White Lightning Epic Ride
easily lasts 200 miles.

Mountain bike, very different story. On dry dusty rides I can get 50
miles out of an Epic Ride lube without the chain making nasty noises.
But when the ride is dry and then wet all bets are off. Yesterday it
was
the usual dusty ride at first but a slight yet persistent drizzle
started about 10 miles into the ride. Long story short a mere 35 miles
after a fresh lube the chain started making horrid squeaking noises
once
the rain had stopped. Seemingly the lube had been flushed out. I had no
choice but to continue another 10mi in order to get home. Mostly uphill
and the sound was awful.

Most advice sites split between wet and dry situations but that just
does not cut it outside summer season:

http://oldglorymtb.com/best-mountain...ry-conditions/



The chain is a KMC X93 10-speed. I need a lube that lasts through a
50mi
dirt trail ride regardless of weather conditions.

Any words of wisdom from other all-weather MTB riders?

Try the paraffin lube system that both James and Frank use,


If that means boiling the chain in a paraffin pot, storing chains in
there and mount them in a rotating pattern as a high-mileage ciclyst
friend does, I don't really want to go to that much effort.


In my case, it doesn't mean that. It means waxing the chain while it's
on the bike, using a low-flame propane torch to heat about 10 links at a
time. It takes less than five minutes per bike.

I'd give details yet again, but it probably wouldn't work for you.


I have a propane torch and also a 240V industrial (electrical) hot air
gun used for shrink tubing. Why wouldn't it work for me? Because of the
grit and dust from trails?

Chain cleaning takes at least 20mins each bike. The MTB chain has caked
brown dirt which comes off easy. The road chain bike is fairly clean
after lots of bike path riding but grimy soot-black after riding lots of
road. Gives me goose bumps thinking that I also breath whatever causes
this. I found the disposable interdental brushes to work great for
cleaning. First used for my teeth, rinsed, dried, they go into a coin
envelope and that is used up in the garage. So they all work two jobs.

Lubing takes 10mins because I carefully dab it onto each link via Q-tip.


Interdental brushes, Q tips, unbelievable....

--
Lou

Joerg's doing it all wrong! Sheldon Brown showed the best way to clean and lube a chain. Follow the Master.

http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html

Cheers

I reuse the thinner/cleaner ...deodorized mimeral spirits so grit accumulates at bottom.

finding that a second shake n rinse..chain in bottle with clear poured off thinner from the first shaking ....settles abt 1-2 grams of silica sand grains.

for a 3rd rinse there will be a small grey deposit of fine debris but WTH ? 2 is good.

now try that with brushing ? that sand comes from inside link plates n no brush is gonna ream that out only plate movements

On 2016-09-23 15:14, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, September 23, 2016 at 6:04:28 PM UTC-4, Lou Holtman
wrote:
Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-23 11:54, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/23/2016 1:42 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-09-22 18:35, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 16:59:11 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Chain lube is probably a contentious topic. On the road
bike I am happy since a thorough cleaning and application
of White Lightning Epic Ride easily lasts 200 miles.

Mountain bike, very different story. On dry dusty rides I
can get 50 miles out of an Epic Ride lube without the
chain making nasty noises. But when the ride is dry and
then wet all bets are off. Yesterday it was the usual
dusty ride at first but a slight yet persistent drizzle
started about 10 miles into the ride. Long story short a
mere 35 miles after a fresh lube the chain started making
horrid squeaking noises once the rain had stopped.
Seemingly the lube had been flushed out. I had no choice
but to continue another 10mi in order to get home. Mostly
uphill and the sound was awful.

Most advice sites split between wet and dry situations
but that just does not cut it outside summer season:

http://oldglorymtb.com/best-mountain...ry-conditions/





The chain is a KMC X93 10-speed. I need a lube that lasts through a
50mi dirt trail ride regardless of weather conditions.

Any words of wisdom from other all-weather MTB riders?

Try the paraffin lube system that both James and Frank
use,


If that means boiling the chain in a paraffin pot, storing
chains in there and mount them in a rotating pattern as a
high-mileage ciclyst friend does, I don't really want to go
to that much effort.


In my case, it doesn't mean that. It means waxing the chain
while it's on the bike, using a low-flame propane torch to heat
about 10 links at a time. It takes less than five minutes per
bike.

I'd give details yet again, but it probably wouldn't work for
you.


I have a propane torch and also a 240V industrial (electrical)
hot air gun used for shrink tubing. Why wouldn't it work for me?
Because of the grit and dust from trails?

Chain cleaning takes at least 20mins each bike. The MTB chain has
caked brown dirt which comes off easy. The road chain bike is
fairly clean after lots of bike path riding but grimy soot-black
after riding lots of road. Gives me goose bumps thinking that I
also breath whatever causes this. I found the disposable
interdental brushes to work great for cleaning. First used for my
teeth, rinsed, dried, they go into a coin envelope and that is
used up in the garage. So they all work two jobs.

Lubing takes 10mins because I carefully dab it onto each link via
Q-tip.


Interdental brushes, Q tips, unbelievable....

-- Lou

Joerg's doing it all wrong! Sheldon Brown showed the best way to
clean and lube a chain. Follow the Master.

http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html


Cool!

Thanks. I bookmarked that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-09-23 15:19, DATAKOLL MARINE RESEARCH wrote:

I reuse the thinner/cleaner ...deodorized mimeral spirits so grit
accumulates at bottom.

finding that a second shake n rinse..chain in bottle with clear
poured off thinner from the first shaking ....settles abt 1-2 grams
of silica sand grains.

for a 3rd rinse there will be a small grey deposit of fine debris but
WTH ? 2 is good.

now try that with brushing ? that sand comes from inside link plates
n no brush is gonna ream that out only plate movements


Right, but I really do not want to take the chain off every time I lube.
Which is pretty much after every ride.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/