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  #11  
Old September 24th 18, 08:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 5,870
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On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 8:32:11 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?


Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit.


Well, unless you're a real optimist, you'll want to bring at least one spare and some CO2 or a pump -- and your usual tools, all of which you can get well under 2 lbs, unless you're Joerg, and then you try to get it under 20 lbs.

And CF? I thought you and CF were like gasoline and matches.

-- Jay Beattie.
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  #12  
Old September 24th 18, 08:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 6,016
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On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is
that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference
from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the
CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low
spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps
gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't
continue reverberating from it after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will
switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs.
because of the flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the
only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even thinner
side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen of them
hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in
an immediate flat and the size of the hole would cause any slime to
just ooze all over the place like it happened to me. Only thick
tubes and a tire liner did the trick, no more flats since then. So
the flat kits I bought from you are pretty much exclusively for use
on other cyclists' bikes.


For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be
perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat resistance
without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire liners. TK is
on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers, heart-lung
machine, flares and rope.


Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10" penetration
suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling out?

Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on both
tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get any there?
Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping up, hoping the
slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after 5mi or so I had to
leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have
.... a tube.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #13  
Old September 24th 18, 10:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Theodore Heise[_2_]
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Posts: 132
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On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 12:53:01 -0700,
Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:


As soon as I recover from the expense of building [my CF
bike] I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight
by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless
the only defense is the running surface and sometimes the
even thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a
dozen of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only
imagine that resulting in an immediate flat and the size of
the hole would cause any slime to just ooze all over the
place like it happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire
liner did the trick, no more flats since then. So the flat
kits I bought from you are pretty much exclusively for use on
other cyclists' bikes.


For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would
be perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat
resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and
tire liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with
panniers, heart-lung machine, flares and rope.


Heart-lung machine. HAHaha!


Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats
on both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never
get any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept
pumping up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It
didn't and after 5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a
tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have ... a tube.


What, you didn't have a tube to share with them?

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA
  #14  
Old September 24th 18, 10:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Rides

On 2018-09-24 14:05, Theodore Heise wrote:
On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 12:53:01 -0700,


[...]


Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats
on both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never
get any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept
pumping up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It
didn't and after 5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a
tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have ... a tube.


What, you didn't have a tube to share with them?


I had already given that to another rider who couldn't be convinced to
use thorn-resistant thick tubes. Well, now he knows. Besides, both their
fancy tubeless MTBs were flat so one tube alone would not have gotten
them home. OTOH the El Dorado Trail is also a nice hiking trail. One day
I want to walk it without my MTB. That will be an all day affair though.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #15  
Old September 24th 18, 11:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Rides

On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:53:03 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is
that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference
from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the
CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't bounce on those low
spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps
gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't
continue reverberating from it after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will
switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs.
because of the flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless the
only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even thinner
side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen of them
hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that resulting in
an immediate flat and the size of the hole would cause any slime to
just ooze all over the place like it happened to me. Only thick
tubes and a tire liner did the trick, no more flats since then. So
the flat kits I bought from you are pretty much exclusively for use
on other cyclists' bikes.


For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be
perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat resistance
without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire liners. TK is
on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers, heart-lung
machine, flares and rope.


Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10" penetration
suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling out?

Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on both
tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get any there?
Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping up, hoping the
slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after 5mi or so I had to
leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't be fixed unless you have
... a tube.


And once again, we're back onto the El Dorado trail, or as we know it up here, the Trail of Terror! (or trail of dopes with all the hapless people you meet). Note from my post that I was talking about ROAD RIDING, and unless you're riding through a brier patch, most road cyclists -- even in goathead country -- aren't going to get attacked by massive amounts of goatheads. There is also less target area with a 25mm tire. Tom isn't going to put tire liners, thick tubes and mega-belted monstrosities on his new Colnago racing bike. Hardcase tires and their equivalents ride like bricks.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #16  
Old September 25th 18, 12:24 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Rides

On 2018-09-24 15:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:53:03 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is
that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight
difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride
quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't
bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph
and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other
frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it
after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will
switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2
lbs. because of the flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless
the only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even
thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen
of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that
resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would
cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it
happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the
trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from
you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists'
bikes.

For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be
perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat
resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire
liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers,
heart-lung machine, flares and rope.


Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10" penetration
suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling out?

Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on
both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get
any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping
up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after
5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't
be fixed unless you have ... a tube.


And once again, we're back onto the El Dorado trail, or as we know it
up here, the Trail of Terror! (or trail of dopes with all the hapless
people you meet). Note from my post that I was talking about ROAD
RIDING, ...



This sub-thread was about tubeless. What I am saying is that tubeless is
no match for goat heads. Regardless of whether they are lying in wait on
singletrack or on paved surfaces (which they do).


... and unless you're riding through a brier patch, most road
cyclists -- even in goathead country -- aren't going to get attacked
by massive amounts of goatheads. There is also less target area with
a 25mm tire. Tom isn't going to put tire liners, thick tubes and
mega-belted monstrosities on his new Colnago racing bike. Hardcase
tires and their equivalents ride like bricks.


It's similar on road bikes here. One rider had an Armadillo road tire
poked by not one but two goat's head thorns. Both went through. He had a
tube but tubeless is not going to protect you against those because
there is even less surface thickness..

Those nasty thorns seem to be everywhere, on roads, on bike paths, on
trails. A bike shop owner told me that the problem became serious in
California less than 10 years ago when they were somehow imported from
the south-west. They tend to go in far off-center where the tire is
weaker, like this:

https://i0.wp.com/slocyclist.com/wp-...size=678%2C381

Your son lived in Utah, he should know that plenty of them are found on
paved surfaces.

http://www.cyclingutah.com/advocacy/...-noxious-weed/

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #18  
Old September 25th 18, 02:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Rides

On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 4:24:08 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 15:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:53:03 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is
that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight
difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride
quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't
bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph
and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other
frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it
after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will
switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2
lbs. because of the flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless
the only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even
thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen
of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that
resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would
cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it
happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the
trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from
you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists'
bikes.

For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be
perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat
resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire
liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers,
heart-lung machine, flares and rope.


Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10" penetration
suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling out?

Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on
both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get
any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping
up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after
5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't
be fixed unless you have ... a tube.


And once again, we're back onto the El Dorado trail, or as we know it
up here, the Trail of Terror! (or trail of dopes with all the hapless
people you meet). Note from my post that I was talking about ROAD
RIDING, ...



This sub-thread was about tubeless. What I am saying is that tubeless is
no match for goat heads. Regardless of whether they are lying in wait on
singletrack or on paved surfaces (which they do).


... and unless you're riding through a brier patch, most road
cyclists -- even in goathead country -- aren't going to get attacked
by massive amounts of goatheads. There is also less target area with
a 25mm tire. Tom isn't going to put tire liners, thick tubes and
mega-belted monstrosities on his new Colnago racing bike. Hardcase
tires and their equivalents ride like bricks.


It's similar on road bikes here. One rider had an Armadillo road tire
poked by not one but two goat's head thorns. Both went through. He had a
tube but tubeless is not going to protect you against those because
there is even less surface thickness..

Those nasty thorns seem to be everywhere, on roads, on bike paths, on
trails. A bike shop owner told me that the problem became serious in
California less than 10 years ago when they were somehow imported from
the south-west. They tend to go in far off-center where the tire is
weaker, like this:

https://i0.wp.com/slocyclist.com/wp-...size=678%2C381

Your son lived in Utah, he should know that plenty of them are found on
paved surfaces.

http://www.cyclingutah.com/advocacy/...-noxious-weed/


Yes, I've ridden in Utah many times; I was born and raised in California, and there is a bounty for goatheads/puncturevine in eastern Oregon. http://www.union-bulletin.com/news/l...374187d08.html They were controlled in parts of California for a period of time, but I can remember them back to my childhood.

I've never ridden with super fat tubes, tire liners or anything -- even riding across the US and lots of miles in eastern Oregon and Utah. I'll leave it to Tom to speak to his experience in the Bay Area, but unless he is riding through dirt lots or along train tracks, he is probably not seeing more than a nuisance amount of goatheads -- not the crippling multiple flat, stranded on the El Dorado trail goathead attack. And from what he's reported so far, tubeless is working for him.

-- Jay Beattie.




  #19  
Old September 25th 18, 02:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 805
Default Rides

On Mon, 24 Sep 2018 18:16:49 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 4:24:08 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 15:01, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 12:53:03 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 12:37, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 10:09:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-09-24 08:32, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie
wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?

Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is
that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight
difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride
quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot. It doesn't
bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph
and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other
frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it
after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will
switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2
lbs. because of the flat kit.


Maybe you guys don't have goat's head thorns. With tubeless
the only defense is the running surface and sometimes the even
thinner side wall. Not much for a 1/3" long thorn. Or a dozen
of them hitting almost simultaneouly. I can only imagine that
resulting in an immediate flat and the size of the hole would
cause any slime to just ooze all over the place like it
happened to me. Only thick tubes and a tire liner did the
trick, no more flats since then. So the flat kits I bought from
you are pretty much exclusively for use on other cyclists'
bikes.

For ordinary road riders (not you, of course), tubeless would be
perfect for areas infested with goatheads. You get flat
resistance without a half-pound of energy-sucking tubes and tire
liners. TK is on a race bike and not a cargo bike with panniers,
heart-lung machine, flares and rope.


Where should such flat resistance come from if 1/10" penetration
suffices to cause phsssss and green stuff gurgling out?

Even more, why did the couple on the El Dorado Trail get flats on
both tubeless MTB while I, riding the very same route, never get
any there? Because they didn't carry a growler? They kept pumping
up, hoping the slime would finally heal things. It didn't and after
5mi or so I had to leave them behind because a tubeless leak can't
be fixed unless you have ... a tube.

And once again, we're back onto the El Dorado trail, or as we know it
up here, the Trail of Terror! (or trail of dopes with all the hapless
people you meet). Note from my post that I was talking about ROAD
RIDING, ...



This sub-thread was about tubeless. What I am saying is that tubeless is
no match for goat heads. Regardless of whether they are lying in wait on
singletrack or on paved surfaces (which they do).


... and unless you're riding through a brier patch, most road
cyclists -- even in goathead country -- aren't going to get attacked
by massive amounts of goatheads. There is also less target area with
a 25mm tire. Tom isn't going to put tire liners, thick tubes and
mega-belted monstrosities on his new Colnago racing bike. Hardcase
tires and their equivalents ride like bricks.


It's similar on road bikes here. One rider had an Armadillo road tire
poked by not one but two goat's head thorns. Both went through. He had a
tube but tubeless is not going to protect you against those because
there is even less surface thickness..

Those nasty thorns seem to be everywhere, on roads, on bike paths, on
trails. A bike shop owner told me that the problem became serious in
California less than 10 years ago when they were somehow imported from
the south-west. They tend to go in far off-center where the tire is
weaker, like this:

https://i0.wp.com/slocyclist.com/wp-...size=678%2C381

Your son lived in Utah, he should know that plenty of them are found on
paved surfaces.

http://www.cyclingutah.com/advocacy/...-noxious-weed/


Yes, I've ridden in Utah many times; I was born and raised in California, and there is a bounty for goatheads/puncturevine

in eastern Oregon.
http://www.union-bulletin.com/news/l...374187d08.html
They were controlled in parts of California for a period of time, but
I can remember them back to my childhood.

I've never ridden with super fat tubes, tire liners or anything -- even riding across the US and lots of miles in

reastern Oregon and Utah. I'll leave it to Tom to speak to his
experience in the Bay Area, but unless he is riding through dirt lots
or along train tracks, he is probably not seeing more than a nuisance
amount of goatheads -- not the crippling multiple flat, stranded on
the El Dorado trail goathead attack. And from what he's reported so
far, tubeless is working for him.

-- Jay Beattie.


Perhaps Tom doesn't carry a Growler of beer with him on his rides. One
can only speculate on whether drinking beer while riding results in
more attacks by mountain lion, wild eyed dairy cattle and goat head
thorns then are experienced by those who ride sober.

https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-bike-deaths/
Some 21 percent of autopsies for New York City bicyclists who died
within three hours of their accidents detected alcohol in the body,
--
Cheers

John B.
  #20  
Old September 26th 18, 04:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Rides

On Monday, September 24, 2018 at 9:11:03 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/24/2018 11:32 AM, wrote:
On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 5:54:16 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:

YOU GOT A CARBON FIBER BIKE?


Yes, I crossed over to the Dark Side again. But the thing is that although there is only some 6 lbs total weight difference from my heaviest steel bike to the CLX, the ride quality of the CLX is easily the best of the lot.. It doesn't bounce on those low spots when you're descending at 40 mph and while hitting bumps gives you a jarring just as any other frame material it doesn't continue reverberating from it after the initial strike.


As soon as I recover from the expense of building it I will switch to tubeless which will reduce the weight by some 2 lbs. because of the flat kit..


You have a 2 pound flat repair kit?


You don't? One bag, a couple of innertubes, a couple of CO2 cartridges and a filler or a pump and a multitool? I have a scale and I have weighed many of these things and they all were close to two lbs for a road bike and not some heavy POS touring bike wi8th 32 mm heavy wall innertubes like you ride..

The question is - why have you never weighed any of this? Or do you simply contradict for the reasons unknown to thinking humans?
 




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