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100% OT; school holidays



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 18th 04, 07:52 AM
MartinM
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Default 100% OT; school holidays

As many of the people on this NG appear to have children of school
age, what does the panel think of proposals by the government to
reduce the cost of taking holidays in school holidays. Can they do it
anyway? Is this the soft option to the £100 fine idea?
Presumably the tour operators will counter by saying it's not school
holiday holidays that are expensive, it's the term time ones that are
cheap.
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  #2  
Old June 18th 04, 07:56 AM
Tony Hogarty
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Default 100% OT; school holidays

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:52:50 -0700, MartinM wrote:

As many of the people on this NG appear to have children of school
age, what does the panel think of proposals by the government to
reduce the cost of taking holidays in school holidays. Can they do it
anyway? Is this the soft option to the £100 fine idea?
Presumably the tour operators will counter by saying it's not school
holiday holidays that are expensive, it's the term time ones that are
cheap.


Looks to me like a classic supply and demand issue. High demand out of
term time means the suppliers can charge a higher rate but lower demand in
term time means lower prices. I don't see what it has to do with the
government in all honesty, unless we are moving to a society where we have
to subsidise parents for their choices?

--
Regards

Tony Hogarty
(Take out the garbage to reply)

  #3  
Old June 18th 04, 08:15 AM
Michael MacClancy
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Default 100% OT; school holidays

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 07:56:16 +0100, Tony Hogarty wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 23:52:50 -0700, MartinM wrote:

As many of the people on this NG appear to have children of school
age, what does the panel think of proposals by the government to
reduce the cost of taking holidays in school holidays. Can they do it
anyway? Is this the soft option to the £100 fine idea?
Presumably the tour operators will counter by saying it's not school
holiday holidays that are expensive, it's the term time ones that are
cheap.


Looks to me like a classic supply and demand issue. High demand out of
term time means the suppliers can charge a higher rate but lower demand in
term time means lower prices. I don't see what it has to do with the
government in all honesty, unless we are moving to a society where we have
to subsidise parents for their choices?


It does have something to do with government if the travel companies are
colluding in order to charge 'above market rates' in the peak periods.

There might be something to this given the fact that many of the operators
are owned by the same large companies but tourism is very much a supply and
demand industry. Individual hotels charge more in the peak period,
airlines charge more, campsites charge more, everyone charges more.

And the problem isn't necessarily one that the UK government can control on
its own. All the European countries go on holiday at roughly the same,
adding to the peak demand.

If the government really wants to do something to control prices (and if
it's not the case that the tour companies are colluding to raise them) then
it might have more success if it followed the German practice of staggering
school holidays by region much more than at present so that people don't
all go off at the same time.

--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't
it." -Groucho Marx
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk
  #4  
Old June 18th 04, 08:44 AM
Tony Hogarty
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Default 100% OT; school holidays

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 08:15:52 +0100, Michael MacClancy wrote:

It does have something to do with government if the travel companies are
colluding in order to charge 'above market rates' in the peak periods.


Given that the majority of travel companies are in an extremely poor
financial position it seems unlikely that there are charges above the
market rates. Indeed you could reasonably argue that the prices should go
higher still - if the market would support that of course.

--
Regards

Tony Hogarty
(Take out the garbage to reply)

  #5  
Old June 18th 04, 09:15 AM
Richard Goodman
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Default 100% OT; school holidays

"MartinM" wrote in message
om...
As many of the people on this NG appear to have children of school
age, what does the panel think of proposals by the government to
reduce the cost of taking holidays in school holidays. Can they do it
anyway? Is this the soft option to the £100 fine idea?
Presumably the tour operators will counter by saying it's not school
holiday holidays that are expensive, it's the term time ones that are
cheap.


Personally I just think they should be more tolerant of taking a few days
off either side of school hols. Ten days in a year as a guideline is fine,
but it's ridiculous to say if you take an 11th day the sky is going to fall
on your head - or a fine in your wallet. One more day doesn't make much
difference to the child's education. Most parents are responsible and will
try and minimise the time out. The government doesn't spend enough on
education, directly and indirectly creates a system of inequalities where
many parents don't want to send their children to their most local school,
leading to the damned 'school run', and then complains like mad about
parents even of primary children taking their kids off a few days early or
coming back a few days late. Absurd!

Rich



  #6  
Old June 18th 04, 09:16 AM
Bob Downie
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Default 100% OT; school holidays

If the government really wants to do something to control prices (and if
it's not the case that the tour companies are colluding to raise them) then
it might have more success if it followed the German practice of staggering
school holidays by region much more than at present so that people don't
all go off at the same time.


Those of you down south may not realise this, but in Scotland school
holidays start 2 weeks earlier than in England. The cheap prices in
early July suit us very well!
--
Bob Downie

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  #7  
Old June 18th 04, 09:22 AM
Just zis Guy, you know?
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Default 100% OT; school holidays

Michael MacClancy wrote:

It does have something to do with government if the travel companies
are colluding in order to charge 'above market rates' in the peak
periods.


I don't see much evidence of that - it is a fierceley competitive market. I
think it is simply that, as previously mentioned, off-peak holidays are
cheap. Consider the relative costs of weekend and weekday rates at four
star hotels. Many holiday destinations have to recoup pretty much their
entire annual operating cost over two months in the summer.

I am unhappy (read: disgusted) with people who disrupt classes by taking
their children out for holidays. It causes significant extra work for the
teachers and slows down the rest of the class at a time when it can be quite
hard keeping things together anyway, what with the kids being "demob happy."

And we lost top spot in the league tables one year because two children were
removed without permission during SATs for family holidays - children thus
removed score zero on the SAT and bring the average for the entire school
down (so much for league tables!).

Holidays in school holidays have /always/ been more expensive. It's not
like it's a secret. If you don't want hassles like taking holidays at peak
times, don't have kids. If you do have kids, their education comes first.
That's my view anyway.

There are exceptions, of course. A friend will have to take their child out
for two weeks in term time because that is the only way they can afford to
visit her sister in Australia. That's not going to happen more than once or
twice in the child's entire school career, and the school have been
consulted and are cool with it. Some work and background reading can be
provided for the child to do while away.

If the government really wants to do something to control prices (and
if it's not the case that the tour companies are colluding to raise
them) then it might have more success if it followed the German
practice of staggering school holidays by region much more than at
present so that people don't all go off at the same time.


As long as the regions are the right size. We are likely to head into a
nightmare world where one child will be in a Berkshire school and one in
Oxfordshire; they have different half-terms. No more half-term breaks for
us for a while!

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk


  #9  
Old June 18th 04, 09:34 AM
Arthur Clune
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Default 100% OT; school holidays

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

: And we lost top spot in the league tables one year because two children were
: removed without permission during SATs for family holidays - children thus
: removed score zero on the SAT and bring the average for the entire school
: down (so much for league tables!).

If I had kids I think I'd try and take them out of school on SAT days as a
policy.....

: Holidays in school holidays have /always/ been more expensive. It's not
: like it's a secret. If you don't want hassles like taking holidays at peak
: times, don't have kids.

Don't have kids. Works for me

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook
  #10  
Old June 18th 04, 09:34 AM
PK
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Default 100% OT; school holidays

Richard Goodman wrote:

Personally I just think they should be more tolerant of taking a few
days off either side of school hols. Ten days in a year as a
guideline is fine, but it's ridiculous to say if you take an 11th day
the sky is going to fall on your head - or a fine in your wallet.



If you take your child out, then the child misses some programmed lessons.

The school has an obligation to the child and the teacher will inevitably
have to spend time filling in the bits the child missed. and if they don't
and the child performs poorly in sats, you will be the first to complain
that the school has not done it's job

ie you taking your child out reduces the teaching resources available to my
child and every other child in the class.

Take a child or two out for a week at the start and end of every term and
the whole class is disrupted and damaged.

Your choice and actions damage my child.

pk (School governor)

ps one of the teachers at our school was going away on holiday with a group
of non teaching friends. they had to go in school holiday time and all take
the £££ hit because she could not take holiday in term time.




 




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