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Some lives matter. Some don't



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 28th 18, 07:39 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
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Posts: 5,697
Default Some lives matter. Some don't

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 00:30:34 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 11:23 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 02:04:27 +0100, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 19:07:44 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/26/2018 6:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:01:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On 1/26/2018 8:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.massbike.org/anitakurmannvideo

Yes, horrific.

The ignoramus police, too.


Certainly Sir. The logical answer is simply to eliminate the police
force. Think of the tax savings, why the New York police force costs
the tax payer in the neighborhood of $130,769 annually
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/david...b_7659496.html

Think of how happy "Mr. Average Man" will be without the ignoramus
police and the horrendous tax bill.


I strongly support police when they're correct and competent.

I can't support a system that provides no serious punishment when a
motorist takes another's life.

At a bare minimum, the trucker should never again operate a motor
vehicle on a public road.


You know, it used to be that way. Killing someone used to be a pretty
serious crime, whether with a club or an auto. Now, from what I read
here it is apparently more of a misdemeanor then a crime.

I remember way back, I must have been in High school, an ex-GI at a
public dance got into a fight, punched a guy, who stumbled out into
the road ad was hit by a passing car. The Ex-GI got 7 years for that.

What would it be today?
--
Cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #22  
Old January 28th 18, 07:56 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B.[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,697
Default Some lives matter. Some don't

On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 23:46:33 -0500, Radey Shouman
wrote:

AMuzi writes:

On 1/26/2018 6:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:01:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/26/2018 8:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.massbike.org/anitakurmannvideo

Yes, horrific.

And yet we have people here saying a cyclist should always stay far
right, that controlling a lane is dangerous.

If she had been in front of the trucker, he'd have seen her and slowed.

But if a cyclist can't bring himself/herself to do that, at least NEVER
put yourself to the right of a vehicle that might turn right. Especially
a large vehicle like a truck or bus.

Right hooks are deadly. (Left hooks in drive-on-left countries.)

A few years ago there was a huge outrage about cyclist deaths in London
(even though, as usual, far more pedestrians died). It came out that
most of those deaths were left hooks, usually women, who pulled up along
big lorries. Some said the women were too "polite" to avoid the curb and
get in the traffic lane.

I am a bit puzzled with these right/left hooked accidents. Don't
people turn their heads to look and see what is creeping up beside
them? I certainly do - every driveway turning onto "my street"; every
corner, every junction, I look to see what is coming. Shoot, I even
look back over my shoulder to see what is coming up behind me.

Don't other people?


Yes, we (and many of our dearly departed) do (did).

Review the video. She actually stopped her bike as he started the turn
but short of martial-arts level acrobatics she was trapped.


Lots of commentary and still frames at
http://www.massbike.org/anita_kurmann_video_narrative .

Look at the picture labeled 7:03:08 AM, which shows the truck driver
swinging into the lane to his left to make a right turn, with the
cyclist almost beside his passenger window. In the next frame she has
realized what's happening, and avoids the front wheels, but cannot avoid
the rear.

I don't know whether the massbike claim of vehicular homicide should be
supportable or not, but it amazes me that Matthew Levari, the truck
driver, was not prosecuted for leaving the scene.


From what I read the Mass. law includes wording such as

http://www.bikexprt.com/massfacil/laws/passright.htm
" Ch. 89 § 2. Passing vehicle traveling in same direction

...The driver of a vehicle may, if the roadway is free from
obstruction and of sufficient width for two or more lines of moving
vehicles, overtake and pass upon the right of another vehicle when the
vehicle overtaken is (a) making of about to make a left turn, (b) upon
a one-way street, or (c) upon any roadway on which traffic is
restricted to one direction of movement."

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #23  
Old January 28th 18, 01:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 454
Default Some lives matter. Some don't

John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 00:30:34 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/27/2018 11:23 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 02:04:27 +0100, Sepp Ruf wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 19:07:44 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/26/2018 6:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:01:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/26/2018 8:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.massbike.org/anitakurmannvideo

Yes, horrific.

The ignoramus police, too.

Certainly Sir. The logical answer is simply to eliminate the police
force.


You forgot the Suffolk sh*thole DA's Office.

If you think that would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater, go
(elsewhere to) troll radical libertarians.

I strongly support police when they're correct and competent.


It's nut just police there who seem to be operating in some continuous trial
and "bicycle friendly" error mode. Quoting a comment from "Lord Desslok" on YT,

Based on Google street view's history, the north side of that intersection
has been redone several times over the years:
* 2011: Two lanes instead of three
* 2012: Third lane marked for vehicles making right turns and for bicycles
* 2014: No markings in any lanes
* 2015: Middle lane marked for bicycles, no markings in third (right) lane
* 2016: Dedicated bike lane with traffic delineators, left lane marked
straight, middle lane marked straight or turn right (this is also what
Google maps currently shows)
On the south side of the intersection:
* 2011: Two lanes and parking spots
* 2012: Two lanes, and bike lane, and parking spots
* 2017: Two lanes, parking spots, and a dedicated bike lane next to the
sidewalk with traffic delineators (this is also what Google maps currently
shows)

I can't support a system that provides no serious punishment when a
motorist takes another's life.


Well, at least if the motorist was considerably negligent, and there is no
doubt that Matt Levari was. (Dr. Kurmann did not suddenly jump onto the
road from behind a view-blocking structure or vehicle.)

How does Mass. handle pure bus lanes continuing straight across an
intersection? Right turns banned, or is the bus lane always equipped with
separate, non-conflicting traffic lights?

At a bare minimum, the trucker should never again operate a motor
vehicle on a public road.


That's a bit draconian, isn't it? Once and if Mr. Levari reaches old age,
after working his butt off to pay for his negligent driving, he should be
allowed to ride a de-facto motor vehicle like a 3 mph electric wheelchair.
But first, instead of having the victim's family pay inefficient lawyers to
operate in sh*thole Boston, why not instantly auction off a killer truck,
proceeds going to the victim's heirs? If Levari really dindu nuffin wrong
as a driver, he did as an owner of the truck who should have put a qualified
co-driver or assistant cameras on it to avoid "unavoidable" accidents. If
he doesn't like it, he should have paid in front for the additional
operating risk, via insurance cost.

I remember way back, I must have been in High school, an ex-GI at a
public dance got into a fight, punched a guy, who stumbled out into
the road and was hit by a passing car. The Ex-GI got 7 years for that.

What would it be today?


The guy would safely land on a protected bike lane.
  #24  
Old January 28th 18, 03:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,374
Default Some lives matter. Some don't

Yes. No que. .... I want to go on with my mission sans crushing a moron into the blvd
  #25  
Old January 28th 18, 04:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Some lives matter. Some don't

On 1/27/2018 11:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/27/2018 11:23 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 02:04:27 +0100, Sepp Ruf

wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 19:07:44 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/26/2018 6:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:01:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/26/2018 8:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.massbike.org/anitakurmannvideo

Yes, horrific.

The ignoramus police, too.


Certainly Sir. The logical answer is simply to eliminate
the police
force. Think of the tax savings, why the New York police
force costs
the tax payer in the neighborhood of $130,769 annually
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/david...b_7659496.html


Think of how happy "Mr. Average Man" will be without the
ignoramus
police and the horrendous tax bill.


I strongly support police when they're correct and competent.

I can't support a system that provides no serious punishment
when a motorist takes another's life.

At a bare minimum, the trucker should never again operate a
motor vehicle on a public road.


pffft.
How in the hell would that be enforced?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.3783246

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #26  
Old January 28th 18, 05:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Some lives matter. Some don't

On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 6:30:18 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/27/2018 8:26 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 4:54:33 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jan 2018 14:37:26 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/27/2018 1:09 AM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 22:27:31 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/26/2018 7:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:01:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/26/2018 8:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.massbike.org/anitakurmannvideo

Yes, horrific.

And yet we have people here saying a cyclist should always stay far
right, that controlling a lane is dangerous.

If she had been in front of the trucker, he'd have seen her and slowed.

But if a cyclist can't bring himself/herself to do that, at least NEVER
put yourself to the right of a vehicle that might turn right. Especially
a large vehicle like a truck or bus.

Right hooks are deadly. (Left hooks in drive-on-left countries.)

A few years ago there was a huge outrage about cyclist deaths in London
(even though, as usual, far more pedestrians died). It came out that
most of those deaths were left hooks, usually women, who pulled up along
big lorries. Some said the women were too "polite" to avoid the curb and
get in the traffic lane.

I am a bit puzzled with these right/left hooked accidents. Don't
people turn their heads to look and see what is creeping up beside
them? I certainly do - every driveway turning onto "my street"; every
corner, every junction, I look to see what is coming. Shoot, I even
look back over my shoulder to see what is coming up behind me.

Don't other people?

See if you can get a chance to sit in a big truck's cab. The blind spots
are huge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9E1_1M-qhU

http://commuteorlando.com/wordpress/...-about-trucks/

I'm not a truck driver but I did maintain them up to about 35 ton dump
trucks so I'm fairly aware of the view from the cab.

But the fact that a vehicle has blind spots should, to a knowledgeable
cyclist, cause the cyclist to treat them with even more caution than a
more conventional vehicle.

In fact one might even say that a cyclist who isn't aware of the
limited vision from the cab of many large motor vehicles, I include
buses and most trucks, is probably lacking the necessary skills to
ride on the public highways.

Well, I'm all in favor of education.

But education doesn't get much attention from "bicycling advocates" in
the U.S. These days they're all about "protected cycle tracks." In other
words, if you were in a "protected cycle track" just before you rode
into that intersection, the right turning truck would not have run you over.

Perhaps the solution is some form of limited access bikeway. No
walkers, no dogs, just bicycles all traveling in the same direction at
the same speed. I could even envision one where tunnels existed under
all intersections where larger vehicles crossed the bikeway


The "same speed" part is vexing -- speaking as someone who rides in a city with a high bike mode share and dopey facilities. I hate conga lines.


Well, you would have hated the historic example of John's scheme: a
bicycle monorail system. They actually built it in New Jersey in the 1890s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchk...cycle_Railroad

Supposedly a big reason for the failure was the unpleasantness of being
stuck behind the slowest rider. Given the psychology of modern
motorists, I suppose that frustration was present even if one's top
speed was just 1 mph more than the guy in front.


We have that! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKV-UoBptXU

-- Jay Beattie.
  #27  
Old January 28th 18, 07:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,638
Default Some lives matter. Some don't

On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 11:14:12 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Personally I ride in groups of one as it eliminates the necessity of
paying attention to all the problems of riding in a peloton and just
roll along smelling the roses and watching the birds :-)


I ride in groups of one because nobody else in the county is both able
to ride twenty miles and content to do so at an average speed of 5
mph.

Riding more slowly than one's natural speed is almost as tiring as
riding faster than one is able. On foot, walking slowly is even more
tiring than walking fast, as anyone who has taken a toddler for a walk
can attest.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
  #28  
Old January 28th 18, 08:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Some lives matter. Some don't

On 1/28/2018 7:19 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 00:30:34 -0500, Frank Krygowski wrote:


I strongly support police when they're correct and competent.


It's nut just police there who seem to be operating in some continuous trial
and "bicycle friendly" error mode. Quoting a comment from "Lord Desslok" on YT,

Based on Google street view's history, the north side of that intersection
has been redone several times over the years:
* 2011: Two lanes instead of three
* 2012: Third lane marked for vehicles making right turns and for bicycles
* 2014: No markings in any lanes
* 2015: Middle lane marked for bicycles, no markings in third (right) lane
* 2016: Dedicated bike lane with traffic delineators, left lane marked
straight, middle lane marked straight or turn right (this is also what
Google maps currently shows)
On the south side of the intersection:
* 2011: Two lanes and parking spots
* 2012: Two lanes, and bike lane, and parking spots
* 2017: Two lanes, parking spots, and a dedicated bike lane next to the
sidewalk with traffic delineators (this is also what Google maps currently
shows)


I think a lot of this is driven by bike advocates who absolutely want
special spaces for bicycles. The underlying philosophy is "Any bike
facility is a good bike facility." They lobby, city officials
capitulate, then people realize "Oh, that was dumb." Rinse and repeat.

At a bare minimum, the trucker should never again operate a motor
vehicle on a public road.


That's a bit draconian, isn't it? Once and if Mr. Levari reaches old age,
after working his butt off to pay for his negligent driving, he should be
allowed to ride a de-facto motor vehicle like a 3 mph electric wheelchair.


OK, I'll accept the wheelchair. But only after a couple decades.

But first, instead of having the victim's family pay inefficient lawyers to
operate in sh*thole Boston, why not instantly auction off a killer truck,
proceeds going to the victim's heirs?


An excellent idea!


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #29  
Old January 28th 18, 08:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Some lives matter. Some don't

On 1/28/2018 10:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2018 11:30 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/27/2018 11:23 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 02:04:27 +0100, Sepp Ruf

wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 19:07:44 -0600, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/26/2018 6:24 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:01:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/26/2018 8:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
http://www.massbike.org/anitakurmannvideo

Yes, horrific.

The ignoramus police, too.

Certainly Sir. The logical answer is simply to eliminate
the police
force. Think of the tax savings, why the New York police
force costs
the tax payer in the neighborhood of $130,769 annually
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/david...b_7659496.html



Think of how happy "Mr. Average Man" will be without the
ignoramus
police and the horrendous tax bill.


I strongly support police when they're correct and competent.

I can't support a system that provides no serious punishment
when a motorist takes another's life.

At a bare minimum, the trucker should never again operate a
motor vehicle on a public road.


pffft.
How in the hell would that be enforced?

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.3783246


As a first step, I can envision laws imposing crushing fines on a
company that hires a driver who has no valid license.

Beyond that, well, driving a motor vehicle usually requires working
hands and one working foot...


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #30  
Old January 28th 18, 08:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Some lives matter. Some don't

On 1/28/2018 11:28 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 6:30:18 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/27/2018 8:26 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 27, 2018 at 4:54:33 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:

Perhaps the solution is some form of limited access bikeway. No
walkers, no dogs, just bicycles all traveling in the same direction at
the same speed. I could even envision one where tunnels existed under
all intersections where larger vehicles crossed the bikeway

The "same speed" part is vexing -- speaking as someone who rides in a city with a high bike mode share and dopey facilities. I hate conga lines.


Well, you would have hated the historic example of John's scheme: a
bicycle monorail system. They actually built it in New Jersey in the 1890s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotchk...cycle_Railroad

Supposedly a big reason for the failure was the unpleasantness of being
stuck behind the slowest rider. Given the psychology of modern
motorists, I suppose that frustration was present even if one's top
speed was just 1 mph more than the guy in front.


We have that! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKV-UoBptXU


Wait. They have to wear helmets for THAT???

Good God, we're down the rabbit hole.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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