visibility

On Monday, June 27, 2016 at 4:33:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2016 4:27 PM, Michael wrote:


Planet Bike Superflash here. I don't know if it does any good or not, but if there's even a minute chance it catches the attention of the 17 year old driving and texting on a country two-lane, I'll take that.

sigh And a certified-for-14-mph helmet _might_ help if a car hits at
35 mph head on; and a bright jersey _might_ catch the attention of a
motorist 50 feet earlier; and a six-foot vertical flag _might_ give
early warning after cresting a hill; and a three-foot horizontal flat
_might_ yield a little more passing clearance; and a a loud air horn
_might_ give enough warning if someone does pull out in front of you;
and a St. Christopher's Medal _might_ make him clear your path as you're
riding.

Sheesh! Doesn't anyone just ride a bike any more?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Yes, if a rider has all that and more, I say good on you and have a great ride.

Mike

On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 8:03:56 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-28 07:10, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-27 18:06, James wrote:
On 28/06/16 08:05, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-27 14:56, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, June 27, 2016 at 5:48:23 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:


Hint: A properly equipped bike has DRL in front _and_ in
back. Mine are very visible. I know people who only have a
rear light but having a front light and no rear light would
be quite stupid.


millions of bicyclists throughout the world don't need or use
DRLs.


Millions of people in grandpa's days did not have safety belts
in their cars.


As I understand it, there is a well researched and documented
link between seat belt wearing and improved survival for car
crash victims.

The same cannot be said for DRLs on bicycles.


It has been proven for motorcycles. For bicycles no serious study
has been conducted but I and a lot of others know from experience
that they work well.

Have you interviewed the motorists who did not hit you to find out if
they did not hit you because you were using a front or rear light on
a sunny day? How about the motorists who hit you?


I don't need to because:

1. As a car driver I notice cyclists with bright flashing lights way
earlier than those without.

2. Numerous friends and neighbors have told me that they saw me from far
away when approaching in their cars.

Good enough for me.

And that's fine. Nobody is trying to take your flashers out of your cold, dead hands. Just don't claim that riding without one if crazy or foolish or whatever. Riding to work this morning, I still noticed jersey color before flashing lights, and it was a little gloomy. So long as you're not riding in urban camouflage, cyclists are easily seen in sunshine -- assuming a motorist is looking. I use flashers and/or steady-beam lights in low-light conditions. Although it was gloomy this morning, I didn't bother turning on my flea-watt flasher. The cars still obeyed my every command because of my fluorescent jersey and winning personality.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 2016-06-28 09:16, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 8:03:56 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-28 07:10, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 28, 2016 at 6:54:33 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-27 18:06, James wrote:
On 28/06/16 08:05, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-27 14:56, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, June 27, 2016 at 5:48:23 PM UTC-4, Joerg
wrote:


Hint: A properly equipped bike has DRL in front _and_
in back. Mine are very visible. I know people who only
have a rear light but having a front light and no rear
light would be quite stupid.


millions of bicyclists throughout the world don't need or
use DRLs.


Millions of people in grandpa's days did not have safety
belts in their cars.


As I understand it, there is a well researched and
documented link between seat belt wearing and improved
survival for car crash victims.

The same cannot be said for DRLs on bicycles.


It has been proven for motorcycles. For bicycles no serious
study has been conducted but I and a lot of others know from
experience that they work well.

Have you interviewed the motorists who did not hit you to find
out if they did not hit you because you were using a front or
rear light on a sunny day? How about the motorists who hit you?


I don't need to because:

1. As a car driver I notice cyclists with bright flashing lights
way earlier than those without.

2. Numerous friends and neighbors have told me that they saw me
from far away when approaching in their cars.

Good enough for me.

And that's fine. Nobody is trying to take your flashers out of your
cold, dead hands. Just don't claim that riding without one if crazy
or foolish or whatever.


I claim that riding without good DRL increases the chance of being seen
late. Or worst case too late.


... Riding to work this morning, I still noticed
jersey color before flashing lights, and it was a little gloomy. So
long as you're not riding in urban camouflage, cyclists are easily
seen in sunshine -- assuming a motorist is looking. I use flashers
and/or steady-beam lights in low-light conditions. Although it was
gloomy this morning, I didn't bother turning on my flea-watt flasher.
The cars still obeyed my every command because of my fluorescent
jersey and winning personality.


As I said several times before, there are many situations where jerseys
are not feasible. Such as when riding to a clients. Sneaking past the
receptionist and changing wardrobe every time is not always possible.
You've got to arrive in a somewhat proper attire.

Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 6/28/2016 8:03 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

I don't need to because:

1. As a car driver I notice cyclists with bright flashing lights way
earlier than those without.

2. Numerous friends and neighbors have told me that they saw me from far
away when approaching in their cars.

Good enough for me.

Some people believe that there must be multiple double-blind studies
before they can believe anything, no matter how obvious.

On 6/28/2016 9:54 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-27 18:06, James wrote:


As I understand it, there is a well researched and documented link
between seat belt wearing and improved survival for car crash victims.

The same cannot be said for DRLs on bicycles.


It has been proven for motorcycles. For bicycles no serious study has
been conducted but I and a lot of others know from experience that they
work well.

Joerg has no idea what "confirmation bias" is.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/28/2016 9:58 AM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-27 19:39, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2016 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-27 14:24, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2016 1:13 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2016-06-26 12:48, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Again, you say that's in the news "regularly here." Can we get a
list,
or at least a count, to show how "regular" that is? Is it once a
week?
Or does "regular" mean once a month?


About every other month.

That's not a list nor a real count. How about some documentation,
Joerg? You're making extraordinary claims. You should provide at
_least_ ordinary evidence.


Baloney. I do not have a GoPro and do not plan to spedn the money for
one. If you don't blieve me that's fine, I do not care.

??? What does a GoPro have to do with listing the fatally injured
cyclists in your area? You're claiming that these happen "regularly,"
i.e. about six per year. It should be easy to produce a list proving
that.


I have shown you links to three cases this year alone. I do not have
time to dig out another six years and, knowing you, you still would not
believe a thing and then demand proof for the previous 100 years.


I do some work with an advocate who tracks down details on every bike
fatality in my entire state. We have roughly ten to 20 per year in the
entire state. You say you typically have six per year in just your
riding area? Then give us a couple years' worth, to prove it!


See above. I does go on into previous years but there are no statistics
around here. Cases like this:

http://fox40.com/2015/03/24/sacramen...it-run-driver/

So you've done an internet search and found one more, from March 2015.

You're claiming one every couple months, for what's apparently your
ever-expanding "riding area." If this "riding area" of yours (the
entire Sacramento valley??) is such a Devil's Triangle of bike deaths,
I'm shocked that it hasn't made national news, or gotten special
attention from at least a California bike advocacy organization.

Again, it is not just about people killed. It is also about people
crippled.

So give us the details on those. If it's so blasted terrible, someone
somewhere must be keeping a real list!

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/28/2016 1:23 PM, Joerg wrote:


I claim that riding without good DRL increases the chance of being seen
late. Or worst case too late.

And how is it that you get so many incidents where you were seen just in
time to avoid a crash? How is it that most of us don't get those?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 6/28/2016 11:34 AM, Michael wrote:
On Monday, June 27, 2016 at 4:33:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2016 4:27 PM, Michael wrote:


Planet Bike Superflash here. I don't know if it does any good or not, but if there's even a minute chance it catches the attention of the 17 year old driving and texting on a country two-lane, I'll take that.

sigh And a certified-for-14-mph helmet _might_ help if a car hits at
35 mph head on; and a bright jersey _might_ catch the attention of a
motorist 50 feet earlier; and a six-foot vertical flag _might_ give
early warning after cresting a hill; and a three-foot horizontal flat
_might_ yield a little more passing clearance; and a a loud air horn
_might_ give enough warning if someone does pull out in front of you;
and a St. Christopher's Medal _might_ make him clear your path as you're
riding.

Sheesh! Doesn't anyone just ride a bike any more?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Yes, if a rider has all that and more, I say good on you and have a great ride.

And if he doesn't have all that, what do you say?


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 2016-06-28 11:07, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/28/2016 1:23 PM, Joerg wrote:


I claim that riding without good DRL increases the chance of being seen
late. Or worst case too late.

And how is it that you get so many incidents where you were seen just in
time to avoid a crash? How is it that most of us don't get those?


As I said many times now there are hardly any since installing bright
DRL. Therefore, I will continue their use.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2016-06-28 10:55, sms wrote:
On 6/28/2016 8:03 AM, Joerg wrote:

snip

I don't need to because:

1. As a car driver I notice cyclists with bright flashing lights way
earlier than those without.

2. Numerous friends and neighbors have told me that they saw me from far
away when approaching in their cars.

Good enough for me.

Some people believe that there must be multiple double-blind studies
before they can believe anything, no matter how obvious.


I even know engineers who do. Needless to say, they were not
experiencing a very stellar career.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/