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#121
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
So has it been confirmed, then, that Andre is channeling Jobst?
Like Jobst, he feels we need more debate and need to argue further points of consideration. That's OK with me because I'm a master debater. |
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#122
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On 4/16/2013 9:05 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Apr 16, 1:35 am, sms wrote: On 4/16/2013 12:21 AM, Andre Jute wrote: On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:05:17 AM UTC+1, wrote: You're coming to this one a bit late, "ide..." I haven't seen you around here. I am sorry but, you are the joke here. Don't be sorry. You're singing my song. I always wanted to be a standup comedian, but it turned out I wasn't common enough for the clubs. Have you considered the quality of the build? The precision? Yes. Nothing special about it once you get above Taiwanese mass production. As I demonstrated, for a third down to a fifth of Waterford prices you get a high quality build with precision — elsewhere. At this level, quality and precision are taken for granted; they're minimum entry skills. Have you ever compared the rootless "root" you considered your mxte.... compared to the "root" that waterfod people has had on modern cycling? You can read about the prewar (that's not pre-Afghanistan, or pre-Gulf, that's pre-World War II) roots of my mixte athttp://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdf The history you want starts in the second section, and in the third section you will find photographs of Meister Kluwer who painted the coachlines on my bike. Meister Kluwer (Meister is a title meaning Master that a few exceptional craftsmen earn) worked on the line when the lineal ancestor of my bike was first built by Locomotief in 1936. Very well-written. Too bad those bikes aren't available in the U.S.. I'm looking for something better for the spousal unit's commute bike. The Mixte frame I'm looking at is made in San Francisco http://store.somafab.com/roadframes.html. Not too bad at $500. Designed in San Francisco -- made in Taiwan. http://www.somafab.com/faqs That's not a bad thing, though. Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive quality frame, built in Free China ROC: http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from $795 complete: http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...deep-blue.html Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a whole lot less than $3K, including frame end enhancement http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html Taking nothing from the American builders, who yet command the top level of custom fabrication: http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/wfdopna2.jpg http://www.yellowjersey.org/wfdopen.html At the other end of the spectrum: http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#123
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On 4/16/2013 8:56 AM, AMuzi wrote:
Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive quality frame, built in Free China ROC: Wow, I haven't heard "Free China" or "Red China" used for a long time. http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from $795 complete: http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...deep-blue.html Poland? You mean countries behind the Iron Curtain are exporting bicycles? Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a whole lot less than $3K, including frame end enhancement http://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html Would you mind opening up a shop in the Bay Area? At the other end of the spectrum: http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/ Not bad. Not the bars that the spousal unit prefers but that's a minor change. She likes more swept back bars. She likes the style of her present bike but I'd like something a little lighter with 700C wheels and narrower tires and better components. I need to find a shop that offers a complete bicycle with the Soma Mixte where they don't charge MSRP for every component they put on. I've also thought about the Novara Transfer and changing the stem to an adjustable reach stem, the handlebars, adding a clamp on front derailleur and triple crankset and a chain tensioner but the chain tensioners seem to require a derailleur hanger which the Novara Transfer lacks. A schlumpf is also a possibility but then it starts to get ridiculously expensive. Better just to get something built with the Soma frame. |
#124
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 16, 11:56*am, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2013 9:05 AM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 16, 1:35 am, sms wrote: On 4/16/2013 12:21 AM, Andre Jute wrote: On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:05:17 AM UTC+1, wrote: You're coming to this one a bit late, "ide..." I haven't seen you around here. I am sorry but, you are the joke here. Don't be sorry. You're singing my song. I always wanted to be a standup comedian, but it turned out I wasn't common enough for the clubs. Have you considered the quality of the build? The precision? Yes. Nothing special about it once you get above Taiwanese mass production. As I demonstrated, for a third down to a fifth of Waterford prices you get a high quality build with precision — elsewhere. At this level, quality and precision are taken for granted; they're minimum entry skills. Have you ever compared the rootless "root" you considered your mxte..... compared to the "root" that waterfod people has had on modern cycling? You can read about the prewar (that's not pre-Afghanistan, or pre-Gulf, that's pre-World War II) roots of my mixte athttp://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdfThe history you want starts in the second section, and in the third section you will find photographs of Meister Kluwer who painted the coachlines on my bike. Meister Kluwer (Meister is a title meaning Master that a few exceptional craftsmen earn) worked on the line when the lineal ancestor of my bike was first built by Locomotief in 1936. Very well-written. Too bad those bikes aren't available in the U.S.. I'm looking for something better for the spousal unit's commute bike. The Mixte frame I'm looking at is made in San Francisco http://store.somafab.com/roadframes.html. Not too bad at $500. Designed in San Francisco -- made in Taiwan.http://www.somafab.com/faqs That's not a bad thing, though. Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive quality frame, built in Free China ROC:http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from $795 complete:http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...y-lady-solo-de... Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a whole lot less than $3K, including frame end enhancementhttp://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html Taking nothing from the American builders, who yet command the top level of custom fabrication:http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...g/wfdopen.html At the other end of the spectrum:http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/ Out of curiosity: If a person did buy a bike from an unusual country (Poland, Netherlands, Switzerland, India, wherever...) would the components we're familiar with fit, or would there be conflicts as in the days of the old French bikes? - Frank Krygowski |
#125
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On 4/16/2013 3:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Apr 16, 11:56 am, AMuzi wrote: On 4/16/2013 9:05 AM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 16, 1:35 am, sms wrote: On 4/16/2013 12:21 AM, Andre Jute wrote: On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:05:17 AM UTC+1, wrote: You're coming to this one a bit late, "ide..." I haven't seen you around here. I am sorry but, you are the joke here. Don't be sorry. You're singing my song. I always wanted to be a standup comedian, but it turned out I wasn't common enough for the clubs. Have you considered the quality of the build? The precision? Yes. Nothing special about it once you get above Taiwanese mass production. As I demonstrated, for a third down to a fifth of Waterford prices you get a high quality build with precision — elsewhere. At this level, quality and precision are taken for granted; they're minimum entry skills. Have you ever compared the rootless "root" you considered your mxte.... compared to the "root" that waterfod people has had on modern cycling? You can read about the prewar (that's not pre-Afghanistan, or pre-Gulf, that's pre-World War II) roots of my mixte athttp://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdfThe history you want starts in the second section, and in the third section you will find photographs of Meister Kluwer who painted the coachlines on my bike. Meister Kluwer (Meister is a title meaning Master that a few exceptional craftsmen earn) worked on the line when the lineal ancestor of my bike was first built by Locomotief in 1936. Very well-written. Too bad those bikes aren't available in the U.S.. I'm looking for something better for the spousal unit's commute bike. The Mixte frame I'm looking at is made in San Francisco http://store.somafab.com/roadframes.html. Not too bad at $500. Designed in San Francisco -- made in Taiwan.http://www.somafab.com/faqs That's not a bad thing, though. Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive quality frame, built in Free China ROC:http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from $795 complete:http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...y-lady-solo-de... Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a whole lot less than $3K, including frame end enhancementhttp://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html Taking nothing from the American builders, who yet command the top level of custom fabrication:http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...g/wfdopen.html At the other end of the spectrum:http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/ Out of curiosity: If a person did buy a bike from an unusual country (Poland, Netherlands, Switzerland, India, wherever...) would the components we're familiar with fit, or would there be conflicts as in the days of the old French bikes? - Frank Krygowski I suppose the correct answer could be 'all of the above'. In the case of the Creme, it's Shimano gearbox with optional Shimano front drum or dynamo hub and all the usual modern parts you see on everything else with modern BSC threading. p.s. I have it on very good authority (Ms Swenink and Ms Prystalski, who are experts) that Nederlands and Poland are not unusual countries. p.p.s. The French standard is called SI, Standard Internationale, probably with a smile! -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#126
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 16, 5:02*pm, AMuzi wrote:
p.s. I have it on very good authority (Ms Swenink and Ms Prystalski, who are experts) that Nederlands and Poland are not unusual countries. I suppose it's good to remember that the USA may be _the_ most unusual country. That's true in both ways that are good and ways that are bad. - Frank Krygowski |
#127
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On 4/16/2013 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Apr 16, 5:02 pm, AMuzi wrote: p.s. I have it on very good authority (Ms Swenink and Ms Prystalski, who are experts) that Nederlands and Poland are not unusual countries. I suppose it's good to remember that the USA may be _the_ most unusual country. That's true in both ways that are good and ways that are bad. Duly noted by Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto: "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#128
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On 2013-04-16 20:48:13 +0000, Frank Krygowski said:
On Apr 16, 11:56Â*am, AMuzi wrote: On 4/16/2013 9:05 AM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 16, 1:35 am, sms wrote: On 4/16/2013 12:21 AM, Andre Jute wrote: On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:05:17 AM UTC+1, wrote: You're coming to this one a bit late, "ide..." I haven't seen you around here. I am sorry but, you are the joke here. Don't be sorry. You're singing my song. I always wanted to be a standup comedian, but it turned out I wasn't common enough for the clubs. Have you considered the quality of the build? The precision? Yes. Nothing special about it once you get above Taiwanese mass production. As I demonstrated, for a third down to a fifth of Waterford prices you get a high quality build with precision — elsewhere. At this level, quality and precision are taken for granted; they're minimum entry skills. Have you ever compared the rootless "root" you considered your mxte.... compared to the "root" that waterfod people has had on modern cycling? You can read about the prewar (that's not pre-Afghanistan, or pre-Gulf, that's pre-World War II) roots of my mixte athttp://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdfThe history you want starts in the second section, and in the third section you will find photographs of Meister Kluwer who painted the coachlines on my bike. Meister Kluwer (Meister is a title meaning Master that a few exceptional craftsmen earn) worked on the line when the lineal ancestor of my bike was first built by Locomotief in 1936. Very well-written. Too bad those bikes aren't available in the U.S.. I'm looking for something better for the spousal unit's commute bike. The Mixte frame I'm looking at is made in San Francisco http://store.somafab.com/roadframes.html. Not too bad at $500. Designed in San Francisco -- made in Taiwan.http://www.somafab.com/faqs That's not a bad thing, though. Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive quality frame, built in Free China ROC:http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from $795 complete:http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...y-lady-solo-de... Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a whole lot less than $3K, including frame end enhancementhttp://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html Taking nothing from the American builders, who yet command the top level of custom fabrication:http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...g/wfdopen.html At the other end of the spectrum:http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/ Out of curiosity: If a person did buy a bike from an unusual country (Poland, Netherlands, Switzerland, India, wherever...) would the components we're familiar with fit, or would there be conflicts as in the days of the old French bikes? - Frank Krygowski That is a strange question from someone from a bicycle third world country. -- Lou |
#129
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 16, 5:36*pm, Lou Holtman wrote:
On 2013-04-16 20:48:13 +0000, Frank Krygowski said: On Apr 16, 11:56*am, AMuzi wrote: On 4/16/2013 9:05 AM, Jay Beattie wrote: On Apr 16, 1:35 am, sms wrote: On 4/16/2013 12:21 AM, Andre Jute wrote: On Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:05:17 AM UTC+1, wrote: You're coming to this one a bit late, "ide..." I haven't seen you around here. I am sorry but, you are the joke here. Don't be sorry. You're singing my song. I always wanted to be a standup comedian, but it turned out I wasn't common enough for the clubs. Have you considered the quality of the build? The precision? Yes. Nothing special about it once you get above Taiwanese mass production. As I demonstrated, for a third down to a fifth of Waterford prices you get a high quality build with precision — elsewhere. At this level, quality and precision are taken for granted; they're minimum entry skills. Have you ever compared the rootless "root" you considered your mxte.... compared to the "root" that waterfod people has had on modern cycling? You can read about the prewar (that's not pre-Afghanistan, or pre-Gulf, that's pre-World War II) roots of my mixte athttp://coolmainpress.com/AndreJute'sUtopiaKranich.pdfThehistory you want starts in the second section, and in the third section you will find photographs of Meister Kluwer who painted the coachlines on my bike. Meister Kluwer (Meister is a title meaning Master that a few exceptional craftsmen earn) worked on the line when the lineal ancestor of my bike was first built by Locomotief in 1936. Very well-written. Too bad those bikes aren't available in the U.S.. I'm looking for something better for the spousal unit's commute bike. The Mixte frame I'm looking at is made in San Francisco http://store.somafab.com/roadframes.html. Not too bad at $500. Designed in San Francisco -- made in Taiwan.http://www.somafab.com/faqs That's not a bad thing, though. Correct. SOMA Buena Vista's a popular and inexpensive quality frame, built in Free China ROC:http://www.yellowjersey.org/somagirl.jpg Their model Creme is built in Poland. Nice bike, BTW, from $795 complete:http://www.cremecycles.com/cycles/ho...y-lady-solo-de... Or one might build a great bike from the Rivendell for a whole lot less than $3K, including frame end enhancementhttp://www.yellowjersey.org/kmdg.html Taking nothing from the American builders, who yet command the top level of custom fabrication:http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr....jpghttp://www.... At the other end of the spectrum:http://www.bianchiusa.com/bikes/stra...o/torino-dama/ Out of curiosity: *If a person did buy a bike from an unusual country (Poland, Netherlands, Switzerland, India, wherever...) would the components we're familiar with fit, or would there be conflicts as in the days of the old French bikes? - Frank Krygowski That is a strange question from someone from a bicycle third world country. My question could have been phrased better. I intended to ask about buying a bike from a country from which Americans don't usually buy bikes. IOW, how universal are component standards? - Frank Krygowski |
#130
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WHY A WATERFORD BIKE IS A JOKE
On Apr 16, 5:13*pm, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/16/2013 4:07 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Apr 16, 5:02 pm, AMuzi wrote: p.s. I have it on very good authority (Ms Swenink and Ms Prystalski, who are experts) that Nederlands and Poland are not unusual countries. I suppose it's good to remember that the USA may be _the_ most unusual country. *That's true in both ways that are good and ways that are bad. Duly noted by Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto: "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." That's all that's kept the Canadians from conquering us, for sure! But I think our gun fixation, weird as it is, is far from the biggest difference between the U.S. and most other countries. - Frank Krygowski |
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