"A Dutch Guy Is Disgusted By America, But He Has A Hell Of A Point"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m2THe_10dYs

Complains against the lack of infrastructure.

Per sms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m2THe_10dYs

Complains against the lack of infrastructure.

My German relatives never complain, but they seem to view the USA as a
kind of upscale third-world country: cheap goods, interesting natives,
plenty of scenery... but horrendous roads, poor medical care, very
little vacation... in short they enjoy visiting, but none of them would
even think about living there.

OTOH, when we go to Germany, we are always impressed by the cleanliness,
the infrastructure, the adherence to rules of the road, the quality of
education, the fact that most people seem to have six or more weeks
vacation... and so-on-and-so-forth.

OTOOH, when I think about living there, my kneejerk reaction is "Too
many Germans...." -)
--
Pete Cresswell

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...ystem&tbm=isch

On 9/28/2013 4:28 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per sms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m2THe_10dYs

Complains against the lack of infrastructure.

My German relatives never complain, but they seem to view the USA as a
kind of upscale third-world country: cheap goods, interesting natives,
plenty of scenery... but horrendous roads, poor medical care, very
little vacation... in short they enjoy visiting, but none of them would
even think about living there.

True. In the U.S., spending on infrastructure, medical care, etc., is
considered to be socialistic or communistic. You forgot to mention the
whole gun culture.

On 9/28/2013 9:36 PM, SMS wrote:
On 9/28/2013 4:28 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per sms:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=m2THe_10dYs


Complains against the lack of infrastructure.

My German relatives never complain, but they seem to view
the USA as a
kind of upscale third-world country: cheap goods,
interesting natives,
plenty of scenery... but horrendous roads, poor medical
care, very
little vacation... in short they enjoy visiting, but none
of them would
even think about living there.

True. In the U.S., spending on infrastructure, medical care,
etc., is considered to be socialistic or communistic. You
forgot to mention the whole gun culture.

Some Nederlanders understand the nature of things:

http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_van_u...ose_a_gun.html

I found his words quite moving.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Saturday, September 28, 2013 11:31:59 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

Some Nederlanders understand the nature of things:
http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_van_u...ose_a_gun.html
I found his words quite moving.

Pretty good. As it happens, one of my friends is a weapons expert, a person who designs guns and related equipment and has turned down offers from other nations to move overseas and design weapons for them. As he said, "Frank, unfortunately, some people need killing." It's sad, but it's true.

And Peter van Uhm says the main reason for the tremendous drop in murders is the rise of constitutional democracy, and the resulting state monopoly on the use of violence, used only when "our democracy has asked us to do so."

Unfortunately, there are lots of American gun nuts (and I choose those words carefully) whose ideas on gun use are closer to those characterizing the "failed states" van Uhm mentions. The gun nuts, like van Uhm's father, maintain the fantasy that their own little guns will stave off mythical government black helicopters with gatling guns, or invasions from ... somewhere? Maybe Canada?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate shows Netherlands' gun death rate as 0.46 per 100,000 population, about 57th on the list. The U.S. is at 10.3 per 100,000, or 12th on the list - right in there with the failed states and banana republics.

So let's hear it for the "state monopoly on violence" that van Uhm praises. How can we get that?

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski writes:

On Saturday, September 28, 2013 11:31:59 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

Some Nederlanders understand the nature of things:
http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_van_u...ose_a_gun.html
I found his words quite moving.

Pretty good. As it happens, one of my friends is a weapons expert, a person who designs guns and related equipment and has turned down offers from other nations to move overseas and design weapons for them. As he said, "Frank, unfortunately, some people need killing." It's sad, but it's true.


Ted Knight as Judge Smails: "There's a lot of, uh, well, badness in the
world today. I see it in court everyday. I've sentenced boys younger
than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it... Felt I owed it to
them... The most important decision you can make right now is what do
you stand for, Danny... goodness or badness?"

And Peter van Uhm says the main reason for the tremendous drop in murders is the rise of constitutional democracy, and the resulting state monopoly on the use of violence, used only when "our democracy has asked us to do so."


snip


So let's hear it for the "state monopoly on violence" that van Uhm praises. How can we get that?


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1392170/

On 9/29/2013 10:57 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, September 28, 2013 11:31:59 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
....
Unfortunately, there are lots of American gun nuts (and I choose those words carefully) whose ideas on gun use are closer to those characterizing the "failed states" van Uhm mentions. The gun nuts, like van Uhm's father, maintain the fantasy that their own little guns will stave off mythical government black helicopters with gatling guns, or invasions from ... somewhere? Maybe Canada?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate shows Netherlands' gun death rate as 0.46 per 100,000 population, about 57th on the list. The U.S. is at 10.3 per 100,000, or 12th on the list - right in there with the failed states and banana republics.


The gun-nuts watching for black helicopters are pretty harmless really.
It's not like the black helicopters are ever going to show up (well,
unless you are playing with your green laser pointer, that is,,,).

And gun crime (as well as many other types) isn't a problem in most of
the US, mainly just in urban ghettos... Something like 6X the average
rate of everywhere else, by FBI statistics?
And nobody cares about those people.
At least, not to the extent that they will propose any solutions that
target the specific problem.

This is why gun control laws get little public support outside of big
cities. Gun control is a scapegoat for the failure of urban social
architects' grand designs.

In the USA we hold this concept of 'absolute equality' to be
precious--but in the matter of crime, it doesn't work because crime
isn't equal.

AMuzi wrote:

http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_van_u...ose_a_gun.html

I found his words quite moving.

all shot and no powder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebre...he_Netherlands

On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 08:57:04 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Saturday, September 28, 2013 11:31:59 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

Some Nederlanders understand the nature of things:
http://www.ted.com/talks/peter_van_u...ose_a_gun.html
I found his words quite moving.

Pretty good. As it happens, one of my friends is a weapons expert, a person who designs guns and related equipment and has turned down offers from other nations to move overseas and design weapons for them. As he said, "Frank, unfortunately, some people need killing." It's sad, but it's true.

And Peter van Uhm says the main reason for the tremendous drop in murders is the rise of constitutional democracy, and the resulting state monopoly on the use of violence, used only when "our democracy has asked us to do so."

Unfortunately, there are lots of American gun nuts (and I choose those words carefully) whose ideas on gun use are closer to those characterizing the "failed states" van Uhm mentions. The gun nuts, like van Uhm's father, maintain the fantasy that their own little guns will stave off mythical government black helicopters with gatling guns, or invasions from ... somewhere? Maybe Canada?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate shows Netherlands' gun death rate as 0.46 per 100,000 population, about 57th on the list. The U.S. is at 10.3 per 100,000, or 12th on the list - right in there with the failed states and banana republics.

So let's hear it for the "state monopoly on violence" that van Uhm praises. How can we get that?

- Frank Krygowski

While I agree it seems to be a noticeable change at nearly all the
"gun" sites toward guns - with rather frantic cries about "my
tactical, black, shoot many times, gun, that will save my life,
prevent invasion, keep the black helicopters away. But it didn't used
to be that way.

Granted I've not been back to America for quite a while but when I was
there I can't remember ever hearing that tripe. We had target
shooters, trap and skeet shooters, hunters and some collectors. I
never heard anyone extol the M-16, for example.

My dislike of the "anti - gun" laws is firstly, that it is another
freedom that the government seem intent on denying the population and
secondly, historically gun laws haven't solved anything. Read up on
the New York "Sullivan Law" enacted a some years ago to deny hand guns
to New Yorkers in reaction to an assassination , or attempted
assassination. And we all know that New York is, as a result, gun free
and no more gun deaths. New Hampshire, on the other hand, has
practically no gun laws and gun deaths in that state are among the
lowest in the nation.

Apparently no one in the U.S. realizes that you can't legislate
safety. they Tried eradicating the Devil Rum - yup, no more alcohol in
the whole country, and as a result the Mafia went from a local
neighborhood activity to a major crime threat. They tried eradication
the Demon drugs and now have the largest prison population in the
world, I've read. On the way they have outlawed gambling,
prostitution, bigamy, and a whole host of bad things, which, of course
no longer exist in America.



--
Cheers,

John B.