Electric-assist bikes

On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 12:28:48 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 06/02/2017 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 10:49:07 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 06/02/2017 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/6/2017 9:25 AM, Duane wrote:
snip

You can adjust this by making the energy company a property
of the government and pretty much unrestrained by cost
controls.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/publicati...quart_2016.pdf



BTW, even here if the PM would have said something like he
wanted to reduce constraints on the banks because his
friends are having trouble borrowing money he would be out
of a job. I can't believe nobody is making a big deal about
that quote. I guess it's more fake news perpetrated by the
evil leftist media.

"making the energy company a property of the government"
Maybe for a local electric utility. (though often not)


Hydro Quebec is provincial so I guess you could say local since it's not
federal.


PEMEX, Petrobras and PDVSA are so efficient and free of corruption...


I'm not saying that Hydro is corrupt per se. I'm saying that their net
is half of their gross and they can still raise our rates.
The former Ontario Hydro is about as inefficient as they come and
there is definitely a level of corruption invoved. Sucking heavily on
the public teat they have had no incentive to be efficient.


Yeah it's not just not having an incentive to be efficient. They have
an incentive to generate more profits and since there is no competition
there is nothing to restrict them. You see the same with the SAQ. I
imagine your LCBO is similar though they typically have lower prices and
better selection than the SAQ.

And of course there's the corruption that you would expect...

Actually the LCBO is one of the best run "corporations" in Ontario -
grown or not.

On 06/02/2017 1:45 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 12:28:48 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 06/02/2017 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 10:49:07 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 06/02/2017 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/6/2017 9:25 AM, Duane wrote:
snip

You can adjust this by making the energy company a property
of the government and pretty much unrestrained by cost
controls.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/publicati...quart_2016.pdf



BTW, even here if the PM would have said something like he
wanted to reduce constraints on the banks because his
friends are having trouble borrowing money he would be out
of a job. I can't believe nobody is making a big deal about
that quote. I guess it's more fake news perpetrated by the
evil leftist media.

"making the energy company a property of the government"
Maybe for a local electric utility. (though often not)


Hydro Quebec is provincial so I guess you could say local since it's not
federal.


PEMEX, Petrobras and PDVSA are so efficient and free of corruption...


I'm not saying that Hydro is corrupt per se. I'm saying that their net
is half of their gross and they can still raise our rates.
The former Ontario Hydro is about as inefficient as they come and
there is definitely a level of corruption invoved. Sucking heavily on
the public teat they have had no incentive to be efficient.


Yeah it's not just not having an incentive to be efficient. They have
an incentive to generate more profits and since there is no competition
there is nothing to restrict them. You see the same with the SAQ. I
imagine your LCBO is similar though they typically have lower prices and
better selection than the SAQ.

And of course there's the corruption that you would expect...

Actually the LCBO is one of the best run "corporations" in Ontario -
grown or not.


I guess that explains the better price and selection.

On 04/02/17 03:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Electric-assist bikes are coming on strong. And there's some confusion
over how to treat them legally.

In the U.S., at least, it seems the trend is toward three legal classes
of electric bicycles, and having them generally following bicycle laws,
as opposed to motorcycle laws.

Class 1 would be electric assist only while the operator is pedaling,
with the assist cutting out at 20 mph (32 kph). (I'm not aware of any
lower limit on pedal torque or pedal power input - perhaps lightly
twirling a 56x11 gear would qualify?)

Class 2 would be no pedaling required, throttle controlled, but also
limited to 20 mph.

Class 3 would be pedaling required, but limited to 28 mph (45 kph).
That's fast.

I have no trouble with any of those on ordinary roads. But IMO, areas of
concern are segregated bike facilities. For example, it's not uncommon
for rail-trails, multi-use paths etc. to prohibit motors (except for
handicap-assist devices like wheelchairs) and thus prohibit these things
either intentionally or unintentionally. Speed limits may exist, but
they're difficult to enforce.

More seriously, even ordinary striped bike lanes cause some conflicts
between slower and faster riders. Cattle shoots - oops, make that
"protected cycletracks" - are even worse, with narrow widths, hard sides
(curbs & parked cars) and sometimes even bi-directional flow. Can you
imagine some 16-year-old hotshot at 20 or 28 mph zooming through the
slower riders and blasting through an intersection from a hidden
cycletrack?

I'm posting to find out what people are saying and what laws are being
written. I'm interested primarily in North American states and
provinces, but I'm somewhat curious about other countries too, although
I'd like to keep in mind that America is not Amsterdam.

And of course, if anyone has experience where there are already lots of
these things, I'd like to know how it's working out.


On the infra question, here's a sample of the quality infra around the
City of Melbourne. See the video.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/gr...01-gnwa6d.html

--
JS

On 2/6/2017 11:28 AM, Duane wrote:
On 06/02/2017 12:22 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 10:49:07 -0500, Duane

wrote:

On 06/02/2017 10:34 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/6/2017 9:25 AM, Duane wrote:
snip

You can adjust this by making the energy company a
property
of the government and pretty much unrestrained by cost
controls.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/publicati...quart_2016.pdf




BTW, even here if the PM would have said something like he
wanted to reduce constraints on the banks because his
friends are having trouble borrowing money he would be out
of a job. I can't believe nobody is making a big deal
about
that quote. I guess it's more fake news perpetrated by the
evil leftist media.

"making the energy company a property of the government"
Maybe for a local electric utility. (though often not)


Hydro Quebec is provincial so I guess you could say local
since it's not
federal.


PEMEX, Petrobras and PDVSA are so efficient and free of
corruption...


I'm not saying that Hydro is corrupt per se. I'm saying
that their net
is half of their gross and they can still raise our rates.
The former Ontario Hydro is about as inefficient as they
come and
there is definitely a level of corruption invoved. Sucking
heavily on
the public teat they have had no incentive to be efficient.


Yeah it's not just not having an incentive to be efficient.
They have an incentive to generate more profits and since
there is no competition there is nothing to restrict them.
You see the same with the SAQ. I imagine your LCBO is
similar though they typically have lower prices and better
selection than the SAQ.

And of course there's the corruption that you would expect...



I know nothing of Canadian utility regulation.

Here, there's a statutory margin so if the firm is diligent,
responsible and efficient they make x% over a small number.
But when excessively large numbers of employees get generous
early retirement, posh vacation/health plans and a new car
every year, they make that same % over a larger cost base.
Ever wonder why gas/electric utilities have ad budgets? It's
not as if you could shop elsewhere! It's to pad the expense
side.

Anyone who thinks that sort of situation should be applied
to the gargantuan energy exploration companies is dreaming a
different dream than I.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 09:18:06 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/5/2017 11:32 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 20:35:51 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 08:06:34 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 12:36:30 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 08:47:23 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/5/2017 3:16 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 11:16:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/3/2017 8:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2017 7:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 16:47:08 -0800 (PST), Doug Landau
wrote:

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 4:27:54 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 3:52:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2017 5:09 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 2:17:38 PM UTC-8,
wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 16:50:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/3/2017 4:26 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-02-03 12:47, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 2/3/17 5:20 PM, Joerg wrote:
We'll all get there where regular cycling might not be in the
cards
anymore but we still want to get out

I'd rather be found next to my bike on the road
than next to my bed in the nursing home.


It may not be your choice to make. A friend hopped on his old
road bike
in his 80's, fell, cracked several rib ... pneumonia ...
survived but it
was a close call.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to die one way or another. A bike crash,
while _extremely_ unlikely, would be one of the better ways to
go, I think.
Bedtter than suffering through 2 or more years of Multiple
Myeloma
(or even the totally different Melanoma)

That's 'MelanIA'


A case of an immigrant doing a job Americans just won't do.

No kidding!!! Scroll down a bit and look on the right side

https://www.google.com/search?q=immi...K4BbsQ_AUIBygC


It beats working on a Russian oil rig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkyjHzZ3kS4 0:28

Mere peanuts. In America we do it so much better. Burn up a multi
million dollar rig, kill a bunch of people and dump enough oil to
"directly impacted 68,000 square miles (180,000 km2) of ocean".


Half a million wellhead workers, over one million gas/oil well sites
with 161 deaths and 576 significant injuries over a ten year period. Do
accidents happen? Absolutely.

Incidents like Deepwater Horizon shouldn't be treated as just another
accident.

No, you are correct and the regulations at the time were extremely
strident with the Minerals Management Service overseeing virtually
every bit of an off shore drilling program and the U.S. Coast Guard
was responsible to checking and testing the sea bed BOP, if I am not
wrong.

But:

(note: two years before the disaster)

In September 2008, reports by the Inspector General of the Interior
Department, Earl E. Devaney, were released that implicated over a
dozen officials of the MMS of unethical and criminal conduct in the
performance of their duties. The investigation found MMS employees had
used cocaine and marijuana, and had sex with energy company
representatives. MMS staff had also accepted gifts and free holidays
amid "a culture of ethical failure", according to the investigation.1]
The New York Times's summary states the investigation revealed "a
dysfunctional organization that has been riddled with conflicts of
interest, unprofessional behavior and a free-for-all atmosphere...

A May 2010 inspector general investigation revealed that MMS
regulators in the Gulf region had allowed industry officials to fill
in their own inspection reports in pencil and then turned them over to
the regulators, who traced over them in pen before submitting the
reports to the agency. MMS staff had routinely accepted meals, tickets
to sporting events, and gifts from oil companies.

And after the fact:
"MMS's regulatory decisions contributing to the 2010 oil spill
included, in negligence, the decision that an acoustically controlled
shut-off valve (BOP) would not be required as a last resort against
underwater spills at the site, MMS's failure to suggest other
"fail-safe" mechanisms after a 2004 report raised questions about the
reliability of the electrical remote-control devices.... ".
--
Cheers,

John B.


So basically no different from highway paving or getting an
alcohol license.
And now Trump is removing safeguards in the banking/investment
industry implementes after the 2008 crisis - will deepwater drilling
be next???
?Make America Great Again" - at any cost - - -

I suspect that one has to first define the meaning of "Great". Does it
men "more criminals than anyone else?" After all, the U.S. has more
people in their prisons than any other country.

As for "off shore" drilling, the U.S. owns the oceans for a distance
from the high tide mark. By a UN treaty it is 12 nautical mi (13.8
mi/22.2 km) and an exclusive economic zone of 200 nautical mi (230
mi/370 km), but in 1999, U.S. agencies were empowered by presidential
proclamation to enforce American law up to 24 miles (39 km) offshore.

So essentially off shore drilling can be legally controlled by the
U.S. government, and I might point out that they have done so since at
least the 1953 Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act.


You totally missed my point.He will remove any regulation of American
Interests drilling off-shore that could cause"economic hardship" to
them. He'll fill the pockets of his 1% cronies in any way he can -
Thjat's "making America Great" in his eyes. Trickle-down economics is
his "baby".

I'm not sure that is even necessary. Oil companies presently make up 4
out of the top eleven companies in the world (rated by revenue) so I'm
not sure that they need too much help :-) Average annual revenues were
260 Billion (US$) and average annual growth was 34.15%.

As for trickle down economics, I'm not too sure how well that works in
a fully developed country like the U.S., although it certainly does
work in a developing country.

As an example, years ago I played golf with a chap who built factories
for a major U.S. chip making company. He told me that he had built
factories in Korea, and Malaysia and was starting on one in Indonesia.
And mentioned that "we hope to eventually go back to the U.S."

I commented that it was obvious that his factories were taking
advantage of low labour costs and he agreed. I asked how could the
U.S. ever compete? And he replied "Robots".

--
Cheers,

John B.


And yet the energy companies, while large, enjoy only
middling net margins among the world's various large firms.
Software/gizmo net margins are much higher, food
producers/processors are much lower.

Largely due to the tremendous costs of exploration and production
plant construction -a million dollars a day for deep water off shore
exploration drilling - and fields have a "life time" after which they
are of little value, even as real estate.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 6 Feb 2017 10:25:54 -0500, Duane
wrote:

On 06/02/2017 10:18 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/5/2017 11:32 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 20:35:51 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 06 Feb 2017 08:06:34 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 12:36:30 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 05 Feb 2017 08:47:23 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 2/5/2017 3:16 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 4 Feb 2017 11:16:50 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/3/2017 8:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2017 7:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 16:47:08 -0800 (PST), Doug Landau
wrote:

On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 4:27:54 PM UTC-8, Doug Landau
wrote:
On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 3:52:15 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2017 5:09 PM, Doug Landau wrote:
On Friday, February 3, 2017 at 2:17:38 PM UTC-8,
wrote:
On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 16:50:03 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 2/3/2017 4:26 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-02-03 12:47, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 2/3/17 5:20 PM, Joerg wrote:
We'll all get there where regular cycling might not
be in the
cards
anymore but we still want to get out

I'd rather be found next to my bike on the road
than next to my bed in the nursing home.


It may not be your choice to make. A friend hopped on
his old
road bike
in his 80's, fell, cracked several rib ... pneumonia ...
survived but it
was a close call.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to die one way or another. A
bike crash,
while _extremely_ unlikely, would be one of the better
ways to
go, I think.
Bedtter than suffering through 2 or more years of
Multiple
Myeloma
(or even the totally different Melanoma)

That's 'MelanIA'


A case of an immigrant doing a job Americans just won't do.

No kidding!!! Scroll down a bit and look on the right side

https://www.google.com/search?q=immi...K4BbsQ_AUIBygC



It beats working on a Russian oil rig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkyjHzZ3kS4 0:28

Mere peanuts. In America we do it so much better. Burn up a multi
million dollar rig, kill a bunch of people and dump enough oil to
"directly impacted 68,000 square miles (180,000 km2) of ocean".


Half a million wellhead workers, over one million gas/oil well
sites
with 161 deaths and 576 significant injuries over a ten year
period. Do
accidents happen? Absolutely.

Incidents like Deepwater Horizon shouldn't be treated as just
another
accident.

No, you are correct and the regulations at the time were extremely
strident with the Minerals Management Service overseeing virtually
every bit of an off shore drilling program and the U.S. Coast Guard
was responsible to checking and testing the sea bed BOP, if I am not
wrong.

But:

(note: two years before the disaster)

In September 2008, reports by the Inspector General of the Interior
Department, Earl E. Devaney, were released that implicated over a
dozen officials of the MMS of unethical and criminal conduct in the
performance of their duties. The investigation found MMS
employees had
used cocaine and marijuana, and had sex with energy company
representatives. MMS staff had also accepted gifts and free holidays
amid "a culture of ethical failure", according to the
investigation.1]
The New York Times's summary states the investigation revealed "a
dysfunctional organization that has been riddled with conflicts of
interest, unprofessional behavior and a free-for-all atmosphere...

A May 2010 inspector general investigation revealed that MMS
regulators in the Gulf region had allowed industry officials to fill
in their own inspection reports in pencil and then turned them
over to
the regulators, who traced over them in pen before submitting the
reports to the agency. MMS staff had routinely accepted meals,
tickets
to sporting events, and gifts from oil companies.

And after the fact:
"MMS's regulatory decisions contributing to the 2010 oil spill
included, in negligence, the decision that an acoustically
controlled
shut-off valve (BOP) would not be required as a last resort against
underwater spills at the site, MMS's failure to suggest other
"fail-safe" mechanisms after a 2004 report raised questions about
the
reliability of the electrical remote-control devices.... ".
--
Cheers,

John B.


So basically no different from highway paving or getting an
alcohol license.
And now Trump is removing safeguards in the banking/investment
industry implementes after the 2008 crisis - will deepwater drilling
be next???
?Make America Great Again" - at any cost - - -

I suspect that one has to first define the meaning of "Great". Does it
men "more criminals than anyone else?" After all, the U.S. has more
people in their prisons than any other country.

As for "off shore" drilling, the U.S. owns the oceans for a distance
from the high tide mark. By a UN treaty it is 12 nautical mi (13.8
mi/22.2 km) and an exclusive economic zone of 200 nautical mi (230
mi/370 km), but in 1999, U.S. agencies were empowered by presidential
proclamation to enforce American law up to 24 miles (39 km) offshore.

So essentially off shore drilling can be legally controlled by the
U.S. government, and I might point out that they have done so since at
least the 1953 Outer Continental Shelf Lands Act.


You totally missed my point.He will remove any regulation of American
Interests drilling off-shore that could cause"economic hardship" to
them. He'll fill the pockets of his 1% cronies in any way he can -
Thjat's "making America Great" in his eyes. Trickle-down economics is
his "baby".

I'm not sure that is even necessary. Oil companies presently make up 4
out of the top eleven companies in the world (rated by revenue) so I'm
not sure that they need too much help :-) Average annual revenues were
260 Billion (US$) and average annual growth was 34.15%.

As for trickle down economics, I'm not too sure how well that works in
a fully developed country like the U.S., although it certainly does
work in a developing country.

As an example, years ago I played golf with a chap who built factories
for a major U.S. chip making company. He told me that he had built
factories in Korea, and Malaysia and was starting on one in Indonesia.
And mentioned that "we hope to eventually go back to the U.S."

I commented that it was obvious that his factories were taking
advantage of low labour costs and he agreed. I asked how could the
U.S. ever compete? And he replied "Robots".

--
Cheers,

John B.


And yet the energy companies, while large, enjoy only middling net
margins among the world's various large firms. Software/gizmo net
margins are much higher, food producers/processors are much lower.


You can adjust this by making the energy company a property of the
government and pretty much unrestrained by cost controls.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/publicati...quart_2016.pdf

BTW, even here if the PM would have said something like he wanted to
reduce constraints on the banks because his friends are having trouble
borrowing money he would be out of a job. I can't believe nobody is
making a big deal about that quote. I guess it's more fake news
perpetrated by the evil leftist media.

My experience, in the oil and gas business, is that government
ownership is often more costly than private ownership. In Indonesia,
for example, Pertamina, the National Oil Company, was so ineffective
that they couldn't keep their own rigs functional although the their
maintenance expenditures were higher than privately owned rigs. The
Indonesian National Electrical Company was the same. High costs and
low productivity. Malaysia's Petronas was exactly the same, as was
PNOC in the Philippines.

Thailand, on the other hand, pretty well staid out of the actual hands
on part of the business and simply contracted with the majors to do
the actual work and as far as I know does pretty well financially.

--
Cheers,

John B.

Duane wrote in news:1422116959.507856210.760790.spoo-
:

AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2017 2:47 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 2/3/17 5:20 PM, Joerg wrote:
We'll all get there where regular cycling might not be in
the cards
anymore but we still want to get out

I'd rather be found next to my bike on the road
than next to my bed in the nursing home.

+1

Yeah I bet that's something everyone here can agree upon.

+4
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 12:06:42 -0000 (UTC), Andrew Chaplin
wrote:

Duane wrote in news:1422116959.507856210.760790.spoo-
:

AMuzi wrote:
On 2/3/2017 2:47 PM, W. Wesley Groleau wrote:
On 2/3/17 5:20 PM, Joerg wrote:
We'll all get there where regular cycling might not be in
the cards
anymore but we still want to get out

I'd rather be found next to my bike on the road
than next to my bed in the nursing home.

+1

Yeah I bet that's something everyone here can agree upon.

+4
Or like an old flying buddy of mine says - "better 5 bad minutes in a
cessna than 5 bad years in a nursing home"